My thoughts of Leo and actualize.org. What do you think?

[Forza21]

The point of this threat is NOT to demonize Leo, although it may sound this way. The point of this threat is NOT to justify myself, or blame anyone else. As many of you know, i have big issue with the latest insights, but i DO NOT blame actualize.org! In fact, i consider it, as a great lesson to be learned.

The point of this topic is to have honest and open discussion. I've noticed some "red flags" of Leo teachings. If i'm wrong with anything, just write your opinion. 

1) Leo claims that he surpasses anyone with his level of awaking. I've never seen any other spiritual guru do that. If anything, they always say, they are not better anyhow.
2) Lately, Leo, started to call tools of spiritual growth, such as meditation and yoga, as "useless", he only puts psychedelics on pedestal.  Isn't it too radical?
3) Leo started to use the term "solipsism" lately. I've seen a post from 2019, and he calls "solipsism" a bad map, and now he uses it all the time. No other spiritual guru do that, as it may be misleading. I think this might be also my case.
4) Leo bans his mods, who have different way of teaching.  I don't think someone that "radical open-minded"(as he claims himself to be)would do that.
5) Leo's answers on the forum aren't so loving and compassionate, i would say, they are rather harsh, to say at least. If anything, this work should make you more humble, shouldn't it?
6) Leo shits on "no-duality", "no-self", "neo-advaita" teachings, even though i believe it's core foundation for enlightenment.
7)There are a lot of people who seeks help after psychological breakdown, who are even suicidal ( yeah, it was my case too, even though i was mentally stable person)I know it may be just correlation, because mentally unstable people often seeks help in spirituality, but it's still some point to consider.

Now when i look back, i think i might have put too much trust in him, or anyone else. From now on, i shall trust only my feelings and if it resonates with me.  I think it's a lesson to be learned. 

What do you think?

Edited March 17, 2022 by Forza21

[Dima]

Kinda crazy answer 😄

I like Hicks analogy about kitchen&food, if you see 🥕 in a fridge and you don't want to eat it - don't eat it, choose what you want - there are plenty of food out there 🍰

Complete agree that trusting feelings and if it resonates is the key for a self realization.

[Nowt]

26 minutes ago, Forza21 said:

From now on, i shall trust only my feelings and if it resonates with me.  I think it's a lesson to be learned

I think this is wonderful and I'm glad that you're beginning to feel better.  You could call this a pivotal moment for you really. Amazing 😊

[WhiteOwl]

I liked his videos that are made 7 years ago about "standard" self help stuff like self-esteem, productivity etc. He had a nice energy to him. 

I started mostly reading other authors myself (people from his booklist, i thank him for that), so i never followed him that closely.

I have though been a passive spectator looking for advice on the actualized forum (i only went because of a few people who are here, so thats great), and i think its a bit sad to see the transformation he has taken. 

I respect the work he put in to help people to begin with, but doing psychedelics at that level looks very damaging, and he has lost all spark if you ask me. And his comments were straight out repulsive a lot of the time. I mean doing 5MEO 15 days in a row? 

Most of the great teachers from his booklist and who he got most of his material from, used their whole life studying consciousness and existence. Most if not all didn't do psychedelics (peter ralston, rupert spira, eckhart tolle, david hawkin etc). 

And now he is a relatively young guy in his 30s advocating that 5MEO is THAT important. Its scary. Dude did his first mushrooms only 5 years ago. 

The psychedelics experiences i have had, i sometimes did with a "shaman" or a guide, and the consensus was always to wait at least a few month before your next trip to integrate etc. 

I heard him say at some point (might be way higher now) that he has 150 trips, while having a video from only 5 years ago about his first mushroom trip. Thats apeshit crazy.

He also said himself that he doesn't like to be social and as far as i know he doesn't have kids etc. Is this the person who will teach people about love and oneness?

This turned into a rant lol. Sorry about that, it wanted to get out. I thank him for his contribution but it went WAY too far from my little perspective.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by WhiteOwl

[Phil]

It’s flattering that a few comments on a forum are ‘a teaching’, and I am ‘a teacher’, but this is simply just not the case. Just more thought attachment. 

I’d listen to some Byron Katie on youtube. You might feel a lot of relief in resonating with what she shares. Her approach is very opposite, in that she suggests questioning each thought, vs believing them. 

[BlendingInfinite]

Leo is someone who hadn't success in the academic teaching area and now he wants to live this out in spirituality. Which of course doesn't work in the same or similar way.

Moreover, he is someone who wants to be the best at a thing out of minority complex and ego and thus he made himself delude in a self-madeup spiritual philosophy and wants to convince other people, that it is not a philosophy so it is easier to believe for himself.

He said he wanted to drop the "criticism" bomb at philosophy as he was on college. That didn't work, now he want to drop the "psychedelic" bomb not noticing that people doing 5-MEO since centuries before.

He himself always says deluding oneself is a good strategy to become successful. This is of course not the case and he himself is the best example with decreasing business and audience. Now he is developing a psychosis. Congratulations.

If you read the books on his list and other stuff too, you notice that above 95% is copied by other people. What he says often times 1:1. And if he adds his own thoughts or insights, it is often times not consistent. You notice that watching the TOE episodes e.g. and also watching his channel, which has nothing new on content since over 2 years.

And then someone real like Phil comes along and of course this means beef 😄

Edited March 17, 2022 by BlendingInfinite

[Orb]

Leo's had the highest awakening, the hairs on his head committed mahasamadhi 😇.

[MetaSage]

Leo has contributed positively to my life. I’m grateful for his teachings, for the most part.

The only thing that occurs to me right now that puts me off is his strong emphasis on psychedelics. 

I’ve had some experience with them but doubt the premise that they can increase consciousness. They may increase self-awareness and facilitate insights. That is my current take on this topic.

[BlendingInfinite]

28 minutes ago, Lotus said:

By all means, express whatever feelings you have in regard to actualized.org. Just notice that belittling him publicly (this chatroom) is a byproduct of repressed emotions.

Expressing has nothing to do with repressing. And it is also no projection. If you say something public or not does not Make much difference in emotions. 

I also like his old stuff. 

[MetaSage]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

When assessing whether someone is more "awakened" than all other teachers in the field, to what extent is their observed interpersonal conduct pertinent to this assessment?

I’d say behavior is secondary. The “person” is relatively the same, what changes is their level of consciousness relative to their true nature.

Just some cosmology I made up and believe.

[Blessed2]

@Forza21 Yeah, I started recognizing what's wrong after I had a really bad trip, and had to spend time at psych ward and take antipsychotics. It was a really hard and painful experience, though I'm starting to appreciate it because of how much insight it gave me.

What the bad trip and psychological crisis 'brought up' (quite violently and brutally, but effectively) was pretty much the very fundamentals of egoic mind-activity / monkey mind, supression and aversion. As this stuff was uncovering and insight came, it was more and more clear why I didn't feel so good about Leo's "teachings", and why the bad trip manifested.

I just started seeing so much non-sense, suppression, aversion, and egoic mind-activity in general that it was only a matter of time that I was done with Actualized. First I unfollowed the youtube channel, and after Phil left the forum, I left too.

One example comes to mind, this "survival" that is so often mentioned / believed. There is no survival in direct experience. It does not take a lot of morning meditation to absolutely demolish this notion of "survival" and the philosophy / ideology of it. But some keeps supresssing and averting and thus this non-sense is kept running. Think what would happen to the politics and the sex and sexuality related beliefs of Actualized.org if only this belief "survival" would be let go. They would be done and gone.

A book that was quite helpful for me in sorting these things out, was Communion with God by Neale Donald Walsch. You might want to check it out. I might be doing an in-depth look at this book on here at some point, I wanna share it's wisdom because IMO it's so useful and clarifying. 

[BlendingInfinite]

11 hours ago, Lotus said:

There's a difference between expressing and ranting/belittling. They don't necessarily exclude each other, but there might be some undigested emotions in this thread.

Also, belittling is against the forum guidelines.

Yes, belittling is not ok. If you can explain exactly, why I did this - please do it. But until then, it looks for me more like you interpreting my text in a certain way which isn't in alignment with objective reality.

Criticism is always appropriate and to talk things more beautiful than they really are, is neither in my interest nor in the interest of others.

Edited March 18, 2022 by BlendingInfinite

[Isomorphic]

When someone speaks of themselves as innately superior we are from our conditioning of childhood made to react against it, and judge such claims as totally inappropriate to reciprocal interaction. The mistake we carry over from such conditioning in addition is to not take responsibility over what does and does not make sense on the merit of a teaching itself, and not they who profess it.

Only those that for various reasons have inferiority complexes will learn to be governed by they who have defined themselves outside this minimal decency of equality.

So far as I allow myself to be blunt here, it is already evident that he is lost he who cares for one second what it is that Leo should and should not have done.

If people are the means by which the world makes sense still, for you, then Leo is the last person you should listen to, and so far as you have grown out of your childhood you can stand the chance of integrating his teachings fully, that about it which resonates with you.

[Orb]

@Isomorphic this is the genius of Leo, he claims that he has a teaching, but this is just a defense mechanism. 

If you cornered him and told him all his stuff is bs and that people have commited suicide from what hes said, then he'll make it about the "teachings" or call it the "work". 

You see how he distances himself from responsibility by doing this? 

There's no teaching to integrate. 

This is all my opinion here and I'm only being blunt because I think it's important to highlight these things, may he be well and at peace 🙏.

[Isomorphic]

In all humanity there must and will be people that teaches others by means of the giants they stand on the shoulders of, the way we make a synthesis of all these are our teaching to the world. 

Leo is no different. 

 

Leo do not hold anything back, this is both the reason he is where he is and the reason people will suffer from it. 

[Orb]

@Isomorphic A true spiritual friend only points you back to the true teacher, which is ______. 

For me personally, when someone tries to point me to him/her as the source I naturally don't listen to em. 

[Orb]

I apologize for my posts about Leo, targeting him isn't the aim of this forum. 🙂

I forgive you Leo! Be free, you're free now!

[Faith]

9 hours ago, Orb said:

I apologize for my posts about Leo, targeting him isn't the aim of this forum. 🙂

I forgive you Leo! Be free, you're free now!

No worries! 💙 

When I came to this forum I knew I would leave Actualized sometime soon. I haven't been vibing with it for a long time, but didn't set a date per se. The mass banning's just made it easy. You can still creep on there in incognito mode.🤣

[Joseph Maynor]

2 hours ago, lxlichael said:

And for anyone that may be confused in light of the introductory post on my journal, this is not humour. I am serious. I have nothing to gain, though I do see it as the collective good. I am not a personal development teacher nor do I wish to be (though perhaps in ten years) so I don't see him as competition, though I do wish to make a positive difference on culture through alternate means so his actions undermine my own agenda. He is not the only person or group that I will be removing overtime. It is an easy decision for me because there is now too much evidence against his name. I may also be getting rid of Bentinho after I do proper investigation into the man.

I think we all have a kernel of truth to give but the problem is when someone starts to hold themselves out as a teacher they often lose it.  It's like a coach in sports, he/she doesn't play anymore because they're the coach, and they must give up playing to be the coach.  When you're looking at one thing it's hard to look at another.  So when you're focused on teaching you're no longer simply doing the work, you're taking a kind of meta perspective on it and focusing outward instead of inward.  I think it's important for all of us to teach, that's part of it; the danger comes when you attach to being not only a teacher but the teacher, and because you have to be the teacher now you're deaf to many things.  This is an interesting video along these lines.  The 12 min mark is where Sadhguru comes on.

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

@lxlichael That's a great response, thank you.  The only thing that kind of bugs me about Sadhguru is his know-it-all attitude, but there's no question that he's a fountain of wisdom.  I really don't think any person has the "one-size-fits-all right answer" regarding spiritual enlightenment work.  He seems to want to reduce spiritual enlightenment not to philosophy but to science, which I think is a trap.  I think tradition has pros and cons because instead of teaching your raw insights, what happens is that thoughts/concepts/words spread like historical memes/viruses from one "teacher" to the next, and so we get abstraction/concepts being offered rather than genuine insight from a single perspective who comes at it fresh from their perspective.  It would be cool if Sadhguru would say he's only offering pointers from his own perspective rather than taking the stance that he's telling the truth -- which sort of puts him in the same league as everyone else who pontificates in that way.  But he does leave me with useful insights which I appreciate.   But then again, this is just my perspective on spiritual enlightenment, and I work not to let it crystalize into too much of a teaching/rigid habit otherwise I'm walking around will a full cup and no longer learning. 

There is something to be said for practicing the art of not knowing because that keeps your cup empty and paradoxically clears the lens of what you see.  When we focus on thoughts we're not seeing, we're thinking, and we're trying to dominate reality/hunker down using those thoughts, like trying to take something and fit that into a mold that we want instead of letting things be what they are without linguistic interference.  It reminds me of seeing what you want to see in your intimate partner (or friend) and insisting on that instead of letting them be what they are.  It's like saying, "No, you can't be what you are, you must be how I desire to think about you."   Allowing mystery to be here is so underrated.  So many people can't tolerate mystery and not knowing.  I'm fine with allowing mystery to be here, and I think that approach is one of the overlooked keys to spiritual enlightenment work.  Notice how this contrasts with seeking truth.  It's an attempt to encircle, to capture, to take possession of/own that marks the stance of truth.  And notice that when you take the stance of truth, now something must be not true, and so that sets up a kind of problem (bright-line duality) on the path of spiritual enlightenment. 

I'm fine using the word "true" in many circumstances, don't get me wrong, but when we're talking about spiritual enlightenment work and guiding ourselves and others on the path,  we're dealing with a special subject area that's not philosophy, science, religion, art/poetry, consciousness, etc. -- as tempting as it might be to reduce it to one of those to obtain/hunt for/seek a "clearer picture."  But this kind of attempt to take possession of/own/encircle/capture/dominate spiritual enlightenment will take a person 500 miles in the wrong direction of it.   Truth seeking works like a bloodhound catching a scent, now it's off following that scent in a mechanical/machine-like/goal-directed way, but it's gaze is hunkered-down/limited/restricted/narrowed.  Truth is fine if we're talking about many things, but often I want to give a caution about it often when it comes to spiritual enlightenment work. 

Edited March 19, 2022 by Joseph Maynor