Aware Wolf

Thank you for the space. I appreciate the kind words. You're amazing too. You have a different style than me but let 100 flowers bloom. @Mandyis a friend and i like listening to her videos. See Mandy on YouTube if you haven't. I like the way she explains nonduality in a fresh way.

No self isnt a negation? Zen considers nonduality none of that either -- are you saying it does? I'm a bit confused I didnt know Eckhart Tolle was such a bad word to you. I believe i said Now was a delusion, but not a big deal. Some people cherish the whole Now thing , see it as some great awakening truth. It's not. But each their own. So there's a tree then? Who is seeing it?? (Sorry but how do it feel?) Oh. Thats me? The knowledge and experience bit? Ouch. How do you know what I think? So Phil can't nondual bear or be one (i never said he was a nondual bear) because that would be a seperate self. And Phil don't have seperate self. Could be. The story is relevant. Most good stories get repeated. You're the only who has heard, read, and remember it most probably. How many times do I see Leo Gura drama rehashed here? LoA? Vision boards? The emotional scale? Do I post omg Mandy going on about LoA AGAIN? How many times have I heard that? At least 1000. So i beat you there. But you do you ? Well it's a view, i suppose. There are others. But it's not you saying it, right? Define this "Now" you speak of? This minute? This second? This millisecond? All already passed. How do you know of this Now "moment" ? Thru senses? Senses lie all the time. We live in a reality tunnel. I don't know why I typed that. I think we are past having any sort of dialogue. Ah the Internet, strangers shouting past each other. Phil says there is no tree. But you say the bear is dead, and the tree is alive. (Shrugs). I'm gonna see myself out. I understand a little what some of you guys went thru at Actualized dot org now. Forums are rarely conducive to spiritual growth. Best of luck to everyone. No hard feelings.

No? I could swear I saw someone with your username talking about Vision boards, some emotional scale, LoA, and all that other stuff.... Huh. I'm aware the thread is called Nonduality. There's a difference between talking about nonduality and talking nondual cliches, platitudes, and just on the Absolute level. For example, I like listening to Rupert Spira. He listens to people and talks to people in a plain more down to earth way. Although he's just as much nondualist as Jim Newman. Who when asked to describe his background and influences, said Jim Newman doesn't exist. There's no Jim Newman. (sigh). You saying there's no tree makes me wonder how good a driver you are. I think I'm out of here. I try not to argue with non existent people ! Peace+

It is paradoxical but only if "no one" , negates EVERYTHING. Negation is not denial. Denial goes too far. Thus, the third turning of the wheel was necessary. Zen considers nonduality and Emptiness very important. But those stuck on it are in a Devil's Cave. You lost me in talking about being never in anyone elses now.... Its not now. Never was. Never will be. Now is just as much a delusion as past or present. Maybe more since people who read Eckhart Tolle fetishize it so much. I don't think Now is part of nonduality. But whatever. If Now belief is working for you or anyone -- great. Not a big deal. Okay. I'm Leo. Sure. In a way. But i didn't check my (Leo's) bank account or try to withdraw funds. I bet Phil didnt either. So it's an example of nondual bear-ing and being stuck in Emptiness. If I remember correctly, it was @Joseph Maynorwho said Phil was reminding him of being like Leo. Phil responded that he wasn't like Leo... -- He was Leo. Now in the context of this conversation was going all nondual bear here relevant to what Joseph was complaining about?? There's ways to valudate another -- then there's "Who is asking the question" which can be a nondual bear power play. It stops and derails the conversation. Going nondual when not called for seems to me to be nondual one upmanship. It's similar to those guru who get caught with their pants down in a sex scandal and then appeal to Emptiness. There's no one having sex. Because the guru has no self. Or when I try to put in my .02 worth, my pov, my view, warning about being stuck on Emptiness, having wrong views post awakening -- I get asked basically the same thing. My Warning about nondual bears who refer to The Absolute when not called for -- I get some Absolute-ish replies! I really am Leo! Jesus! Do you see how ridiculous and hysterically funny that is?? :-D * "A wrongly viewed emptiness destroys the weak intelligence, like a clumsily held snake or an ill-worked spell. " -- Nagarjuna (No offense meant, seriously) * Seriously I love it. Why -- why what? Why the Advaita Trap Nondual Bear Cartoon is a favorite? -- because its a great cartoon and It caricatures those stuck in Emptiness fairly well. Why2: The cafe story -- I guess it's because I've had my full of nondual bears. Other people may think speaking in nondual cliches is profound. I'm immune to it because after the fiftieth time, it loses any charm. Also I think like Nagarjuna warns, getting it wrong is not good. Maybe one is just obnoxious and annoying and unable to have a basic human conversation like Jim Newman. Or maybe one is like Connor Murphy who goes off the nonduality deep end and gets committed twice. Naw it's not all for me... I'm not so egotistical to think it's all for me, the Universe revolves around me, or is trying to teach me a lesson, or everything is ultimately working towards my best benefit. Those are all views, btw. Vision/dream boards -- are a view. Law of Attraction -- is a view. Even Nonduality (!) Is a view! Now, asking @Philquestion to you and him -- IS THERE ANYONE TO HAVE YOUR VIEWS ? It's a bit strange to be moderators of a nondual forum, which divides into topics the vast majority which deal with duality (eg Relationship), which require login names, which divides into moderators and users, which issue warnings (who are you issuing warnings to??) And yet we seem to get stuck nondualing people as if nonduality is some ultimate answer to everything or to use as a weapon.

You tell me. You have a distinctive style of nondualism. You seem to hold views. (You believe in nonduality, right?). Mayhaps you've transcended the self and there's not anyone -- but still there's a Phil that cooks, drives, runs the forum, answers questions, provides advice. This "no one" is different from Mandys no one or Ruperts or Leos. It seems if you teach especially you've got to have a framework. People ask questions. Maybe Ariana had a real legit powerful awakening. But she'll get asked what happens when we die. Now how would she really know? She don't! She's got to extrapolate based on her framework. Maybe she uses the wave/ocean analogy. Or maybe she says there's no self so no one is born and no one dies. Or the candle transferring a flame to another candle. You wrote in one provocative interesting post: "I am Leo." Thich Nhat Hanh has a famous poem, "Please call me by my True Name" which has a similar theme. The Heart Sutra there's no Path, no enlightenment, no views. This was the second turning of the dharma wheel, Emptiness and the non clinging to self. Cool. I'm aware of this, and even appreciate it as long as they dont nondual bear me (See Advaita Trap Cartoon on Youtube posted earlier). I've spent time at Ramana Ashram and it's my karma to suffer people who've read a Ramana book, meditated a couple weeks, and now know the Truth and want to tell me all about no self. This is why i wear headphones to cafes in Tiruvannamalai now. God bless them. Where I am at, mostly, is the third turning of the wheel, which is non-clinging to Emptiness.

There's two ways to approach non duality: 1) Realize it's beyond words. The Tao that can be talked about is not the Tao. As Wittgenstein also also says, "What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence." Those that talk about it can sound like the nondual bear here: In the Advaita Bear school are Jim Newman and Ariana Reflects. Both who went on and on and on about it or some related nondual cliche. Despite no doer and nothing to teach, they both offered Zoom retreats. They'll tell you ad infinitum they don't exist, it's all an illusion -- but that won't fly if you try to loginto their Zoom retreat without a Valid credit card number. 2) Trying to talk about it the best one can, while avoiding cliches. @MandyI think does a great job. I also like Rupert Spira and Adyashanti. Advaita Vedanta has a rich tradition and I wish more people knew of it. Instead it's like the blind leading the blind. For example, lets say one experiences nonduality. Fantastic! Lucky Duck! But now not only is there stabilization and integration -- but also fitting it into some conceptual framework. WTF happened,?? If you're going it alone -- how likely is it that you'll have a fully fleshed out framework post awakening day 1 ,(or day 90)? Maybe the framework will be stuck on emptiness like Jim Newman. Or akin to Nihilism like some of Ariana's youtube videos seemed. Or you become God like Leo Gura. If you get it right like Mandy or Rupert Spira -- congrats ! Om Namah Shivaya! -- but a lot of people fly to close to the sun and get burned. Like Ariana and her boyfriend Occult Theo. Too Early awakening experiences can be bad because people don't know how to deal with it. When the seed sprouts, there should be fertile loam waiting. Even Ramana had teachers. Ramana had a deep awakening NDE at 16. But he didn't teach until decades later. After he hung around other sadhus and learned the Upanishads. If Ramana had started a Youtube channel at 17 and cut his spiritual teeth on the Actualized Dot Org forum -- well. Imo he'd be F*cked. Kinda a funny picture. Ramana watching Leo',s pickup videos and imitating Leo's strut thru a Las Vegas party. Ramana considering that perhaps he should watch porn. Ramana spouting off about "Spiral Dynamics" to other sadhus and pissing them off. "The psychotic drowns in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight."

Lol. Yes. I can see: A) The Zen master sees a very delusional person who needs a careful approach. If a prospective Zen student is a big fan of Leo Gura (or some other almost cult like teachers: Teal Swan, Daniel Ingram, Culadasa) -- it's a huge red flag. As they'll probably experience a discrepancy in Zen practice and what they've been told. So who will they believe? Leo Gura, the God man? -- Or the unimposing Zen teacher who isn't anything. When told say, "shut up and sit", theyll bitch their safe space was triggered.

How to Awaken (with Book recommendations) On Actualized, Leo Gura has a sticky where he recommends one do self inquiry, hours a day, until one finally breaks through. Self-inquiry was made famous by Ramana Maharshi. It can work. But Ramana, while an inspiration, wasn't a teacher (He never said he was either). People loved sitting with him, but few awakened. Ramana left behind very few teachers. Trying to power your way to awakening through months of ruthless self-inquiry is not likely to work. It's liable to lead to frustration. And even if it does work the realization needs stabilization and integration. Plus different methods work better for different people. Books are available either on Amazon (paying) or on Libgen (free). Here are some of the best methods I've found across a few different wisdom traditions: Note: Try to relax and have a sense of humor on the Path. Waking Up App might be a good start for beginners. There's also series on the app for more advanced people. It costs, but if you can't afford it, they are generous in offering a free subscription. 1) Lojong. Simple, powerful, and profound. What's not to like? See books on Lojong by Pema Chodron and Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche. Watch Tenzin Palmo Youtube lectures on lojong. 2) Metta (Kindness) & Equanimity. See Karen Armstrongs Twelve Steps to a Compassionate Life. For Equanimity, study Stoicism. See books by Donald Robertson. Practice kindness and equanimity in your daily life. A metta and equanimity practice works well for busy people with jobs (and stress) as there's plenty of opportunities to practice. As the lojong slogan says, Use all obstacles as the Path to awakening. 3) Satipathanna. This was described by the Buddha, the Maestro of Meditation, as a direct path to liberation. See Bhikkhu Analayo's trilogy of books on the Satipathanna and his guided meditations on YouTube. 4) Mahamudra & Dzogchen. The pinnacle of Tibetan teachings, direct pointing to the true nature of mind as it is. Reggie Ray has a CD series, Mahamudra in the Modern World, available from Sounds True. Great series. Samaneri Jayasara on Youtube is a fantastic channel. Direct pointings abound. A favorite are her Longchenpa Dzogchen readings. 5) Direct Path. Stephan Bodian's book, Wake Up Now. Greg Goode also has some direct path books. Ilona Ciunaite has a book Gateless Gatecrashers. It's a great book for grokking No Self. 6) Advaita Vedanta. Advaita Vedanta can be pretty philosophical but has a good track record going back thousands of years. See Arsha Boda's Introduction to Vedanta youtube and podcasts. After Introduction to Vedanta, listen to: Atma Bodha Drg Drsha Viveka Tattva Bodha Bhagavad Gita Mandukya For a book, see Dennis Waite's, Back to the Truth: 5000 Years of Advaita Vedanta. Swami Sarvapriyanananda also has a good podcast. I hope this helps someone. If you have any questions, feel free.

Yes. Relative or provisional truth, yes, I'm human. I'm not a bear, though I envy Cocaine Bear. I'm not Leo -- he's a different bucket. Ultimately, no. Aham Brahmasmi. I am Brahman. How to realize this truth? What type of bucket (see the bucket analogy I posted) is more likely to realize it - the human bucket or the cockroach bucket?

Okay. If as you say, enlightenment is the recognition that you're not human and not embodied.... -- which can recognize this better -- the human or the cockroach?

I posted similar but it got lost Heres another analogy similar to the movie and screen: "An analogy given here is a series of buckets with different shapes and colours containing clear or muddy water of varying degrees. The same sun is reflected in each of them. The reflected sun together with the colour and contour of the bucket and the tardiness or clarity of water constitute an individual ego sense or jiva. It associates itself with the bucket contour or the water quality and thinks itself to be the bucket or the water. But all the while it is the sun outside that gets reflected. When the reflection knows itself to be the reflection of the sun outside, the association between reflection and the real sun breaks as there is no longer any reflection. The same sun of consciousness is reflected in millions of buckets of individual souls or jiva." There is the sun. Or screen. True Self. Brahman. God. The Absolute. Etc. The Unborn, the undying, the unfabricated...the Unconditioned. True, the Absolute has no personality, gender, genetic characteristics. Let's not get stuck here. Our problem is that we identify as the bucket. Not as Brahman! So how can we realise our True Self? There's different paths here. One path recommended by the Bhagavad Gita is Bhakti. But I'll take Advaita Vedanta as the bucket is their example. AV says we realise our True Self by removing our ignorance through education. Now to the theme of the thread. As human beings, who suffer, we have relative strengths and weaknesses. Some may help in learning, understanding, and grokking the Truth here. All sentient beings have Buddha Nature. Human beings have a better chance of realising it than a cockroach. As Nagarjuna says, we obtain the Absolute Truth through the relative truth.

How do you know this? How can one recognize this? What language are you typing in? You're ignoring duality. If you nonduality doesnt include duality, it's incomplete. Although there is the absolute, as you point out, we attain awakening through the relative (Nagarjuna). See Advaita Vedanta too. There's a list of requirements for the student to be able to learn and recognize the truth.

Nawww. Because usually pay grades above mine are dumbasses. Re: The Peter Principle. "I don't know" imo can be a good answer. We often eff up thinking we know something but we really dont. For example, we believe a snake is harmless but it's really venomous. As the Buddha said, Therefore, o monks, do not brood over [any of these views] Such brooding, O monks, is senseless, has nothing to do with genuine pure conduct, does not lead to aversion, detachment, extinction, nor to peace, to full comprehension, enlightenment and Nibbāna, etc.

Sure personality characteristics can play a part. But since we can't do anything about genetics , its kinda irrelevant. I was pissed at Star Wars when they did the whole midichlorian bullshit. Instead of a farm kid Luke finding his hero,'s journey, we gotta have the royal family genetic connections. What we can do is to what we can do. Volition is huge. Even if someone at a retreat is a genetic super meditator and sees auras and colors and shit -- but can't get up in the morning to sit, bitches at the cooks, and is afraid of dogs -- I'll take my run of the mill practice. My experience is that super meditators often crash or burn. The other take away is from a book I read recently by Henry Shukman, One Blade of Grass. If you are gifted and have an early awakening -- it can be problematic. As Henry puts it, when the seed germinates, there should be ground of loam waiting for it. But how often does that happen?

This is the question of Maya. Or where (how) does Buddha Nature come about. I was recently asked this in a satsang. I said "it's above my pay grade" My answer was rejected. The correct answer or preferred one was "I don't know." To me, they are similar answers but whatever.