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My thoughts of Leo and actualize.org. What do you think?


Forza21

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11 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

Pertaining to Actualized I think you are overthinking things.  I think you do that a lot.  Don't worry, I do too.  Too much thought can be one's  downfall ironically enough.  

The teachings are sound and it is reiterated countless times to not adapt the teachings as beliefs but to do the spiritual practices.  

Hey - I'm not defending Actualized per se, I don't have a dog in the race - I'm just saying from someone outward looking in - ive looked into his stuff and it is solid.  Don't look at the person- that's just an avatar. No one is perfect.

You're free to disagree -- but if you're going to do so in an above-board way, pose a question or a specific point you think I'm wrong about.  I've done a lot of research into these things and have been following Leo since 2014.

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7 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You're free to disagree -- but if you're going to do so in an above-board way, pose a question or a specific point you think I'm wrong about.  I've done a lot of research into these things and have been following Leo since 2014.

 

27 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

@Forza21 I'm not sure about that as I am this -- in his response video "explaining" why he took the solipsism video down, Leo said he's creating a course probably for $1,000 where he's going to lead you to becoming God and completely omniscient.    Those are his words "completely omniscient."  Check it out yourself.  I don't want to post the video here, but you can find it on YouTube.  Who do you think is going to buy that course?  Somebody off the street who hasn't been conditioned first?   Just to leave one more point here, when it fails it's your fault too.  So, you sell something unverifiable to someone and get them to blame themselves when it doesn't work.  The secret is (drum roll) -- it was designed to fail.  This is very common in MLM manipulative marketing cults.
 

 

 

Very interesting take on this. Indeed.

We don't even have to go that deep, it's enough to say, that's a guy who puts "the highest truth in the universe, higher even than Buddha or Jesus" right after video of "How to bang chicks in the club" xD

I was so blind not to see it sooner 😄"

here's the most advanced spiritual teacher in history ❤️ 
 

 

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On 3/31/2022 at 2:38 PM, Blessed2 said:

@Adeptus Psychonautica Hey, I have not really seen any of your videos, but I kinda know who you are due to the thing. Mind if I ask some questions? I'm just curious 😁

 

How many trips have you had? What substances?

 

I first used psychedelics (LSD) when I was around 13 years old, so seeing that I am now nearly 45 its impossible for me to guess at the total number of trips, and I don't think its hugely important anyway. Lets just say it is many many hundreds of separate occasions, across many different substances, but mainly focused around DMT, Psilocybin, MDMA, Mescaline, 5 MEO DMT, and ayahuasca.

 

On 3/31/2022 at 2:38 PM, Blessed2 said:

What are the psychedelic experiences / insights / mystical experiences / states that you do not agree about with Leo? For example, God-realization. Have you experienced something like that?

The things I have publicly disagreed with Leo about are his objective claims of unlocking psychic superpowers, that he could cure all diseases and ailments, and that awakening to God will solve EVERY SINGLE problem in a persons life, also his self aggrandizing claims about having a messianic destiny, along with his dismissal of any other worldviews.

In addition to this I have criticized the Actualized community as a toxic shithole which enables all the previous negative qualities within Leo through a cult of personality in which he is above question. I think those criticisms have held up extraordinarily well since I made them two years ago.

 

I have never criticized any of Leo's subjective experiences such as his awakening to "God". These transcendent experiences are beyond description so he is welcome to use whatever language and concepts he wishes to describe them, that is none of my concern. I only criticize his inability to separate his personal subjective experience, from objective reality, and the shitty behaviour he and his community manifest within that objective reality. 

...and yes I have experienced the same kind of things Leo discusses, I just approach them in a more grounded and integrated way, as opposed to making YouTube videos declaring myself as the new messiah of mankind.

 

On 3/31/2022 at 2:38 PM, Blessed2 said:

Do you think that psychedelics in fact do "open" certain things about the nature of reality / metaphysics, or do you think they are just different brain chemistry states?

 

The honest answer is that I do not care. These experiences are some of the most significant moments in my life and that's good enough for me, I do not need some new-age or science based answer to validate them. To answer your question though I think its probably both - clearly there is something biological going on, but clearly that isn't the alpha and omega of the story. In this regard its a lot like having sex with someone you love, yes there is something happening biologically but there is also something playing out in emotional and psychological realms, and again the explanation doesnt really say anything about the value or meaning in the experience. 

On 3/31/2022 at 2:38 PM, Blessed2 said:

Is there some things you do agree about with Leo / have had same experience?

 

I would guess that we have a lot more in common than what people realize - particularly in regards to our experiences with psychedelics

, but as soon as you dare to speak out against someone like Leo who people have an emotional investment in, then they tend to take the lazy approach and just assume you disagree with EVERYTHING they say. Obviously this is nonsense, hence why I try to be very specific about the things I call him out for, and provide evidence and reasoning for those specific cases. I don't follow the guy that closely to know where we align, but I have heard him say stuff I completely agree with - its not like the guy is Satan or anything, and I would be more than happy to talk to him. 

 

On 3/31/2022 at 2:38 PM, Blessed2 said:

Are you spiritual in general? Are you interested in buddhism, yoga, nonduality etc?

 

Yes I tend to think of myself as a spiritual person. I regularly attend ayahuasca retreats in Peru, have spent many weeks working with Shipibo shamans and have friends and teachers within that community. I have a passing interest in most spiritual frameworks and the science of consciousness, but I do not claim expertise in any of these areas. I have had numerous non-dual experiences, I practice meditation, and no I do not do yoga - although I probably should.

 

The most spiritual activity I do is to spend time with my wife and two children.  

My YouTube channel - Adeptus Psychonautica

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27 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

The teachings are sound and it is reiterated countless times to not adapt the teachings as beliefs but to do the spiritual practices.  

 

What exactly is "sound" about a "teaching"?

 

"Teaching" 🙄

 

If the "teaching" is "sound", what's the problem with making it a belief? 😄

 

If one is not supposed to make a "teaching" belief, then why call it "teaching"?

 

27 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

I don't have a dog in the race

 

I think you do.

 

There must be an effortless way.

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7 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You're free to disagree -- but if you're going to do so in an above-board way, pose a question or a specific point you think I'm wrong about.

 

7 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You're free to disagree -- but if you're going to do so in an above-board way, pose a question or a specific point you think I'm wrong about.

I just don't see an intent to brainwash there.   I see a guy who wanted to understand reality and went to any lengths to do it.  Then shared his experiences with the world.   There are a lot of spiritual teachers out there and he is one of them.     The core - non duality- is the same.  Oneness.   So I guess I don't see where it's a cult.  There isn't an intent to brainwash.

 

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5 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

 

I just don't see an intent to brainwash there.   I see a guy who wanted to understand reality and went to any lengths to do it.  Then shared his experiences with the world.   There are a lot of spiritual teachers out there and he is one of them.     The core - non duality- is the same.  Oneness.   So I guess I don't see where it's a cult.  There isn't an intent to brainwash.

 

I'm willing to allow your opinion to be here if you're willing to allow mine to be here  as well.  If you become interested in my perspective, you'll ask me a specific question or pose a specific comment directed at something I said.  What you say here is: I generally or summarily deny what JM said.  Ok.  That's fine, but I have no response to this except to repeat what I initially said.  It's important sometimes to allow other people to express things that differ from one's own point of view.

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2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Business cults are designed to brainwash/condition people to think like the cult leader so they buy his or her products eventually.  This is how business cults work.  YouTube does your marketing for you, you then re-direct candidates into your community (or Internet forum) where you restrict them to your discourse or messaging, and eventually they're primed to buy your products or services.  Manipulative marketing cults are a way to make money usually by selling something to someone where conditioning is necessary prior to anyone wanting to buy the products, because the products are unverifiable, i.e., selling someone that they're going to become God and completely omniscient.  The cult leader is a businessman and professional marketer.  This is why the cult leader wants to control the messaging in their community (or Internet forum) and kick off people who get in the way of that.  In order to sell someone on your "one right answer" they have to be primed over time to believe that, which requires a consistent narrative or echo chamber.  Otherwise, you don't take the funneled-in candidates linearly to the cash register to buy from you.  And the cult leader needs to establish a kind of scarcity and credibility as the only source who has what you want.  Business cults are designed to limit you from the outside world, manipulate your thinking, get you addicted to the community that all think the same way and share a common leader, and eventually get you to buy products from that leader of that shared community.  

 

Noted 👍

Have faith.

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49 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

 

I just don't see an intent to brainwash there.

There isn't an intent to brainwash.

 

 

I don't see the intent to brainwash, either. But who can? Intent is a thought, and nobody can see a thought, especially in someone else's mind.

What I do see is the effects, and they seem to play in favor of marketing and money-making as Joseph highlighted.

Have faith.

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3 hours ago, Robed Mystic said:

Pertaining to Actualized I think you are overthinking things.  I think you do that a lot.  Don't worry, I do too.  Too much thought can be one's  downfall ironically enough.  

The teachings are sound and it is reiterated countless times to not adapt the teachings as beliefs but to do the spiritual practices.  

Hey - I'm not defending Actualized per se, I don't have a dog in the race - I'm just saying from someone outward looking in - ive looked into his stuff and it is solid.  Don't look at the person- that's just an avatar. No one is perfect.

Was going to say the same.

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4 hours ago, MetaSage said:

Was going to say the same.

You did say the same.  Why is this "was going to"?  Say "I feel the same" if you feel that way.  I put the same response to you as I did to Robed Mystic then.  I have not received any point of criticism to respond to that's beyond a general denial or attack on my general "over-thinkingness."

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12 hours ago, Robed Mystic said:

The teachings are sound and it is reiterated countless times to not adapt the teachings as beliefs but to do the spiritual practices.  

Hey - I'm not defending Actualized per se, I don't have a dog in the race - I'm just saying from someone outward looking in - ive looked into his stuff and it is solid.  Don't look at the person- that's just an avatar. No one is perfect.

@Joseph Maynor I was simply going to convey a very similar message as the one above. Not directed to you in particular.

 

I don’t care about arguing who’s the “right” or better person. Some people show arrogance but maybe a communication can have value beyond the individual that is doing it, regardless of how it sounds. People confuse the person with the communication, and think that since they dislike the person, then the communication is false or unworthy. That includes believing in him because you like the teacher or how the communication sounds.

 

The point is to watch out for self-bias and to be open. It’s more about getting yourself (your biases, preferences, etc.) out of the equation as much as possible.

 

I have yet to contemplate what listening is, but what’s above sounds like a good beginning for me. 

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52 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You did say the same.  Why is this "was going to"?  Say "I feel the same" if you feel that way.  I put the same response to you as I did to Robed Mystic then.  I have not received any point of criticism to respond to that's beyond a general denial or attack on my general "over-thinkingness."

Okay

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11 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Check it out yourself.  I don't want to post the video here, but you can find it on YouTube

 

Oh my word 🤦‍♀️. I just watched most of it and it was painful.

 

Every new video he's more awake then the last and reached another record highest of awakeness, not that I've watched more then a handful, but I've heard it every time and others have said thats what he says too.

 

Now, as far as he's concerned no one is awake, but him and no teacher/guru is awake either. I just can't take his BS. 🤣 

You're a thought. Do you think a thought is going to occupy 'no thought'.

The 'changeless' can be realized only when the 
ever-changing thought-flow stops.

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@Faith Sometimes one's BS detector is right.  I know Stage Green folks are always trying to call bias on anything that stands tall except for themselves.  But maybe that's not taking responsibility and enabling suffering too.  What's worse, the manipulator or the person who conceals the debate about the manipulator in the interest of preserving peace and equality and eliminating bias?  Is the doormat mother right who tells her kids to shut up when they complain to her about their abusive step-father?  Are the kids biased and over-thinking just because they hold a definitive view?  Sometimes the definitive view is spot on.   It's this idea that nobody can really be called out as manipulative because we're all manipulative.  Ok.  Well, that ignores the fact that manipulation exists on a spectrum with people -- with some people parading much more manipulative energy around than others do.  There are people who are less manipulative than others.  There are people who are working more for the benefit of the good than others -- and in reverse there are people who are more self-interested than others.  We can't relativize this away and castigate the person who points this out as necessarily biased prima facie.  This is a kind of sticking one's head in the sand.  I'm responding to my feelings about this thread in general, so not all of these ideas are directly pointed at you Anna.

 

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10 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I'm responding to my feelings about this thread in general, so not all of these ideas are directly pointed at you Anna.

I don't know, maybe I'm tired, but you lost me! Sooo not sure what's happening. If your trying to tell me off or what?  Lol.😂

 

Anyways, fyi, my real name isn't and never was, Anna. It was just a made up name like Ananta and Faith.

You're a thought. Do you think a thought is going to occupy 'no thought'.

The 'changeless' can be realized only when the 
ever-changing thought-flow stops.

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During my desperate truth seeking days, listening to Leo caused me more confusion. I only started to see some clarity after I joined his forum and started interacting with different people. I'm not sure if it's him or me, but I could never imagine myself growing out of the seeker role as long as I kept following internet gurus. Even when I asked  questions on Leo's forum, his answers were often confusing, like he doesn't have clarity or doesn't want to give it. I noticed gaslighting techniques and whatnot, but I didn't care, because using them is a relative thing (since basically everything is gaslighting). I notice now that almost every time someone posts that they've somehow "gotten awake" on Actualized that Leo tells them that there is more.

Have faith.

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9 hours ago, Faith said:

I don't know, maybe I'm tired, but you lost me! Sooo not sure what's happening. If your trying to tell me off or what?  Lol.😂

@Joseph Maynor

So, I'm awake now, lol, after a good night sleep and I reread your post and I still don't have a clue what you're talking about and how it relates to what I said, since you tagged me in it and said, "so not all of these ideas are directly pointed at you", which means at least a portion are directed at me.

 

  I said 4 things in my post-

 

1) I watched the video you referred to and it was painful to watch.

2) Every new video he claims he's  more awake then the last.

3) As far as he's concerned no one is awake, but him (including teachers/gurus)

4) I can't take the BS

 

So, what in your post was addressing what I said other then your first sentence? Which was, "Sometimes one's BS detector is right".

 

I would really like to understand, because if you are telling me off 😂, I'd like to at least understand what I'm being told off for, exactly. Just say it like I'm in grade-school, so there no misunderstanding.  

 

You're a thought. Do you think a thought is going to occupy 'no thought'.

The 'changeless' can be realized only when the 
ever-changing thought-flow stops.

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17 hours ago, Faith said:

 

Oh my word 🤦‍♀️. I just watched most of it and it was painful.

 

Every new video he's more awake then the last and reached another record highest of awakeness, not that I've watched more then a handful, but I've heard it every time and others have said thats what he says too.

 

Now, as far as he's concerned no one is awake, but him and no teacher/guru is awake either. I just can't take his BS. 🤣 

He obviously mixes the spiritual peaks and highs, with base level of consciousness.... and he calls himself most awaken, because of trips 😉 

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