Yall..LEO GURA WAS MOLESTED!!??

[Blessed2]

"That's enough."

 

"Go do the work."

[James123]

11 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

On 9/17/2022 at 3:59 AM, Faith said:

 

He could be trying to cope with having that in his memory.  He could be trying to heal from it.  That might be his way to heal from that -- to reframe/recontextualize reality so he can try to convince himself it never happened so he can drop it.  If reality is too hard to stomach, one solution is to get a different reality.

I agree with you. He is just suffering from it. Instead of judging, helping or not even talking about will more helpful. Because, if he did know, it was just a thought, he would never mentioned it. Whatever people say or write, which is just an personal opinion. 

[Blessed2]

13 minutes ago, James123 said:

I agree with you. He is just suffering from it. Instead of judging, helping or not even talking about will more helpful. Because, if he did know, it was just a thought, he would never mentioned it. Whatever people say or write, which is just an personal opinion. 

 

Huh. Makes sense.

 

It's a bit hard to acknowledge and to say out loud, but I do hope good things for Leo, that he will find liberation and feel happiness.

 

I hope he has / will have someone to talk to, to share how he's feeling. I hope he will be treated with respect. I hope all the love for him.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Blessed2

[James123]

6 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

Huh. Makes sense.

 

It's a bit hard to acknowledge and to say out loud, but I do hope good things for Leo, that he will find liberation and feel happiness.

 

I hope he has / will have someone to talk to, to share how he's feeling. I hope he will be treated with respect. I hope all the love for him.

Hope so man. Hope so 🙏🙏🙏

[Joseph Maynor]

On 9/17/2022 at 2:20 AM, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

Its worth considering the possibility that the guy who has a well established history of spouting delusional fantasy bullshit to suit his narrative agenda, might also in this instance be spouting delusional fantasy bullshit to suit his narrative agenda.

To gain sympathy is the only reason I can see potentially as bullshit to suit his narrative agenda.  It makes me want to say, "poor guy!"  But it could very well be true and he being as not caring what other people think as he is -- just blurted it out nonchalantly in writing for the world to see in a very provocative way.  It's hard to tell how that affected him because he didn't go into detail regarding that aspect.  He stated it very abstractly but left out almost all the details and the effects that that had on him.  I'm more interested in the latter -- the details and the effects.  That could be explanatory as to what he did with his life after experiencing that.  There were no details given as to what the molestation consisted of and what the word criminal refers to.  Was it a criminal molester (as in someone who was busted for that before) or a molester who happened to also be a criminal in some other way (like larceny, etc.)?  It's kind of like throwing half a story out there and then refusing to provide the other half.  It's kind of a tease which leaves people yearning to fill in the details and yammer on indefinitely trying to reach a kind of understanding.  I guess that's good for generating discussion on his forum.  I feel sorry for him if he did experience molestation to the extent that my mind comes up with examples of what that might have entailed.  Without knowing more details I just can't even say I understand that post of his.  If he did experience legitimate molestation I would never want to make fun of him for opening up about that.  I think it needed more detail though to substantiate and nail down what he's talking about than what he actually said in his blog post.  

Edited November 22, 2022 by Joseph Maynor

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

@Joseph Maynor Yes, its a common tactic to imply something and let peoples imagination fill in the blanks, particularly with the lose definitions of words that is prevalent today. The story itself is vague enough that it could be that someone once put their hand on his leg without consent, or it could be that he was brutally sodomized - and I would guess that most people who are reading it lean towards the latter, which I doubt is true.

 

It reminds me of another popular YouTuber who had addiction problems and declared "My wife took my kids and left me due to my addictions", and needless to say it generated a large amount of attention and sympathy, with the picture being painted that he was now facing a separation and custody case - or at least that is the conclusion people jumped to based on the information provided. Turns out the reality was that the wife had taken the kids away on a planned vacation for the addict to go cold turkey, without the kids having to see it.

 

We know Leo is prone to narrative spin, either intentional or otherwise, so I am keeping that option open as a possibility in regards to this statement of his.  

[Reena]

This thread Jesus 

[Faith]

4 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

To gain sympathy is the only reason I can see potentially as bullshit to suit his narrative agenda. 

I'm confused. I thought you were objecting (on the page before this one) to the members here talking about Leo, but here you are talking about him too? 🤷‍♀️

 

[Reena]

Maybe he is saying that pedophilia is love in the absolute perspective 

 

[Faith]

2 minutes ago, Cupcake said:

Maybe he is saying that pedophilia is love in the absolute perspective 

 

Probably, but did he really need to add that 🤔. It's like he was using clickbait to get attention. 

[Joseph Maynor]

4 hours ago, Faith said:

I'm confused. I thought you were objecting (on the page before this one) to the members here talking about Leo, but here you are talking about him too? 🤷‍♀️

 

I appreciate your point.  I think it's fair of you to raise the issue.  The only thing I want to express is I think it’s wrong to drop a bombshell like that while not providing more details because it leads people to scramble trying to figure out what Leo didn’t say.  Either you say or don’t say — but to halfway say is kind of wrong especially with something like that.   That’s all I want to say.  I would never want to contribute to talking smack about someone who was molested and came out about that.  But that word alone does not conjure up any specific set of details on its own.   What are we talking about here?  To say that without details puts people on a mad dash to try to fill in those details.  If someone said they were raped, that has more of a specific meaning, although even that can have a variety of senses depending on context.  Violent rape is only one use of that word.  There is a real clarity issue raised with Leo’s post.  Why say something like that the way he did in the first place?  That’s the issue for me.  It’s like telling a partial story very abstractly, letting people go hog wild wracking their brains around it, and then sitting back and watching the show, the drama of it.  Adeptus raised an issue as to motive and I wanted to explore that without being rude to Leo because I had similar perplexities about the whole thing and maybe I want to close that out so I can forget about it and move on.  It’s a very juicy drop to make on Leo’s blog.  If my comments are hurtful in any way or inappropriate, I apologize.  It’s unresolved curiosity on my end more than anything.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Joseph Maynor

[Reena]

I was raped, beaten, molested, abused, spanked by my abuser in my childhood and teenage. I'm still a virgin because it was more of molestation and penetrating with object than intercourse. So technically I'm a virgin because I did not experience sexual intercourse but I was molested. 

I think my sexuality changed forever after that and it became very depraved and deviant. However this is just a by product of sexual abuse. I started having rape fantasies. 

And most of my bdsm and rape fetish actually are the direct result of it. 

I have learned to embrace it all for the time being. 

I could not differentiate between abuse and love and the only coping mechanism for my brain was to accept all the abuse as love. I went into Stockholm Syndrome in my teens and in that stage you begin to appreciate your abuser and recognize what they are doing as love, there's no point in fearing or hating it because then you cannot deal with it. It's sink or swim. And the only way to swim is to accept your abuser, rapist, kidnapper and think of it as a good thing. 

Once you have crossed that boundary or threshold, you can't go back. You can't think of it as bad or unhealthy. Your mind has already accepted it as healthy or even vital and this is what you'll accept for the rest of your life. 

I think what will change it is getting loads of healthy love in huge amounts for extended periods of time, which should go beyond human time like over decades, but human life is very limited and nobody loving you can give you that much love. Most relationships are not going to last long enough for you to heal. 

So the healing part is very tough and you continue to indulge in unhealthy love despite knowing it's unhealthy. Because you were trained to believe that that's love and the only way you will get love is through rape abuse torture etc. 

So I empathize deeply with whatever happened to Leo and fully understand why he felt pedophilia is love. He could not cope with it any other way. 

[Joseph Maynor]

Is there a possibility that Leo feels a strong need to reframe reality in the way he has done for himself and for others in order to cope with, escape, and/or heal from being haunted by his criminal molestation experience(s)? 

This is a significant and legitimate question to be raised regarding his motive imo and I don't think it's inappropriate to ask it in this thread.  I was conflicted whether or not to mention this possibility, but if we're going to have a thorough conversation here I think it's to consider.   It's the first thing that came to my mind after seeing his blog post.

In the relative from Man's perspective pedophilia is not love.  Pedophilia is reprehensible!  Probably the most reprehensible conduct of Man.  To put this obvious relative perspective into your shadow and to try to convince others of it too is only seeing half the equation of reality -- and now we understand why someone might be inclined to do this!   This is an interesting line of inquiry (at least to me); I'm not saying it's correct though.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Joseph Maynor

[Reena]

@Joseph Maynor you can simply call it mal programming of the brain. 

I doubt if any sexual abuse victims really want to hurt rape  a child etc. They might say pedophilia is love. But I doubt if they will become actual pedophiles. 

There's just a certain brand of people who are very depraved who would want to do wrong things to others 

Most people who flippantly support such things and call it love are simply coping. The real predators out there are very sneaky and would never make such declarations.

 

To be frank it's the people who don't say such things that we should be worried about. 

The most prolific pedophiles are those who always acted saintly to the world. They will say what you want them to say. They won't act weird at all. Yet they hide a lot of skeletons. I'm not saying that everyone who is innocent is bad. Majority of people who act or say moral things are generally good people. 

It's the tiny fraction, the wolf in sheep's clothing that pretend like they care about everyone who are actually the bad apples. 

Pedophiles are not going to say that pedophilia is love because they don't want to out themselves. They aren't stupid. Most criminals have a lot of social tact and also appear charming like Ted Bundy. They won't say stupid shit in public. 

People like Leo or me are childish. Infantilized by trauma. So we happen to say things without tact. 

It's people like Leo who get into trouble instead of people like Ted Bundy. Leo isn't supporting crime. He is just coping.  Supporting crime is impossible because it goes against your survival. Pedophilia is a very bad crime without doubt. It is love only for the ones trying to cope with its impact. It's not love outside of the cope context. 

 

 

 

[James123]

46 minutes ago, Cupcake said:

I was raped, beaten, molested, abused, spanked by my abuser in my childhood and teenage. I'm still a virgin because it was more of molestation and penetrating with object than intercourse. So technically I'm a virgin because I did not experience sexual intercourse but I was molested. 

I think my sexuality changed forever after that and it became very depraved and deviant. However this is just a by product of sexual abuse. I started having rape fantasies. 

And most of my bdsm and rape fetish actually are the direct result of it. 

I have learned to embrace it all for the time being. 

I could not differentiate between abuse and love and the only coping mechanism for my brain was to accept all the abuse as love. I went into Stockholm Syndrome in my teens and in that stage you begin to appreciate your abuser and recognize what they are doing as love, there's no point in fearing or hating it because then you cannot deal with it. It's sink or swim. And the only way to swim is to accept your abuser, rapist, kidnapper and think of it as a good thing. 

Once you have crossed that boundary or threshold, you can't go back. You can't think of it as bad or unhealthy. Your mind has already accepted it as healthy or even vital and this is what you'll accept for the rest of your life. 

I think what will change it is getting loads of healthy love in huge amounts for extended periods of time, which should go beyond human time like over decades, but human life is very limited and nobody loving you can give you that much love. Most relationships are not going to last long enough for you to heal. 

So the healing part is very tough and you continue to indulge in unhealthy love despite knowing it's unhealthy. Because you were trained to believe that that's love and the only way you will get love is through rape abuse torture etc. 

So I empathize deeply with whatever happened to Leo and fully understand why he felt pedophilia is love. He could not cope with it any other way. 

This is why walking on path is very important, there is no future nor past, only Now. Rest is just attachment with thoughta. Moreover, the love that you describe is based on ego and personal attachment. That's what you have to fight with or surrender it. Your heart has enough power to shake the world, but with the attachment which will come from so called future expectation, just now breathe, what you have appreciate, appreciate and feel. Don't forget, you were literally nothing and now you have a body, which doesn't even belong to you, just so called rented. 

[Joseph Maynor]

17 minutes ago, James123 said:

This is why walking on path is very important, there is no future nor past, only Now. Rest is just attachment with thoughta. Moreover, the love that you describe is based on ego and personal attachment. That's what you have to fight with or surrender it. Your heart has enough power to shake the world, but with the attachment which will come from so called future expectation, just now breathe, what you have appreciate, appreciate and feel. Don't forget, you were literally nothing and now you have a body, which doesn't even belong to you, just so called rented. 

You seem to want to reduce the relative experience of Man to the absolute experience of God.  You're gonna run this track in all your communications.   It's not as simple as you presume.  Not trying to be rude to you, but I've seen this play out for years now in similar approaches to judgment. 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Joseph Maynor

[James123]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You seem to want to reduce the relative experience of Man to the absolute experience of God.  You're gonna run this track in all your communications.   It's not as simple as you presume.

i lost everything, now i am free. I don't need to communicate this what the path and truth is my friend. Of course, it is not simple and not easy. But only the solution. 

[Faith]

7 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I appreciate your point.  I think it's fair of you to raise the issue.  The only thing I want to express is I think it’s wrong to drop a bombshell like that while not providing more details because it leads people to scramble trying to figure out what Leo didn’t say.

 

Leo is a public figure by his own creation and he continues to post "personal"  juicy information about himself that people "will" talk about and let's be honest. He's not stupid. He knows ppl will talk about it and I don't think he really cares too much. It might not be the nicest thing to do, but it is what it is. I sorta think that Leo is happy as long as ppl are focused on Leo...good or bad. I personally don't wish Leo any bad vibes. He never did anything to me personally, except, "hem"...banning me. But, I deserved it.  😂

 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

2 hours ago, Faith said:

He never did anything to me personally, except, "hem"...banning me. But, I deserved it.  😂

I don't think so.  You did not deserve to be banned.  Nahm didn't deserve to be demoted.  Karma from Leo's conduct created this community, so it's not all bad.  Leo was and maybe still is pretty draconian with the bans on his Forum despite preaching so much about absolute love.  Even when I've banned someone either in person or online I've always to my knowledge reversed that ban because I don't feel right about it.  Love is exemplified not merely as something that's talked about like a politician's talking points.  Love is giving someone another chance because everyone honestly has their screw ups and everyone is learning and growing.  After a period of time I can't really hate anyone forever or want to ban them from my life or ban their voice forever.  So I don't give a pass for this behavior and frankly I have always thought is just sucks as an aspect of his personality.  Hopefully one day Leo will mature on this issue and reverse all the bans he did to people who are not obvious trolls who are still around doing the work like he is.   It makes me feel terrible when I go on his Forum and it says "you're restricted from posting".  People PM me and I can't respond.  When he banned me in 2019 he also banned me from communicating with all the people there because he doesn't let people socialize off his forum.  Thus he has absolute control.  That's quite immature on his part and messed up.  Non loving.  Of course he'll twist love using his excellent eloquence with words to justify and fit anything he does.  It's hard to hold on to your own reality and not get seduced by his deliciously presented narratives.  But don't say anything about this on his Forum or your days are numbered because he will ban you.  It's the most humiliating experience to speak what you think is truth and be banished for doing that.  It didn't break me but it hurt me a lot.  It still hurts me because I have friends on Leo's Forum that I communicate with but I can't talk to them on there even though I log in often and basically am still on the Forum.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Joseph Maynor

[Faith]

8 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Leo is pretty draconian with the bans on his Forum despite preaching so much about absolute love. 

It's one thing to ban someone because they've racked up points and another to chop their head off with a whooping 20 pt ban, however I get it, some things are worth 20 points, not many, but a few.

 

I have no idea what the exact situation was of your ban, but yeah, sucks. I pretty much knew my days at Actualized were going to be over when I came here as a mod,  so it was no real surprise I was banned.