My thoughts of Leo and actualize.org. What do you think?

[Phil]

17 minutes ago, Someone here said:

People are conscious of course. And to a varying degrees .

That is what the materialist’s paradigm is. 

 

17 minutes ago, Someone here said:

When you are sleep deprived you are obviously not as conscious as  if you just woke up from 10 hours deep restful sleep and just a had a mug of coffee. 

Sleep is presumed. Consciousness is infinite (not an ego). 

 

17 minutes ago, Someone here said:

A drunk person is not highly conscious. A person who takes psychedelics is more conscious than a sober person. Yada yada 

That is what the materialist’s paradigm is. 

 

The materialist’s paradigm is from the illusory perspective of the separate self of thoughts. (The ego.)

 

Embellishing & aggrandizing the ego isn’t really a spiritual teaching. 

 

 

Consciousness is conscious, obviously yes? 

 

Therefore consciousness awakens. Not people have awakenings. That people awaken or are or aren’t awake is, a personal belief. That again would be the materialist’s paradigm. 

 

😂

[Someone here]

@Phil I know your stance on this and you as well know my stance on this . We've rambled about it numerous times .I'm not gonna argue. 

[Mandy]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

You could say 90%

Nonduality be so simple, saying  that there isn't a percentage this and a percentage that, a more than and less than, a greater or a lesser, no question of for whom any of this applies. Such a relief. 

[Someone here]

@Mandy

On your opinion..Is there different forms of awakening or are you  just implying that everyone who "awakened" is referring to the sense of non duality?

Just curious maybe some people  have "awakened" to different epiphanies not just about nonduality. 

[Mandy]

@Someone here In the realization that the idea that awakening can happen for and to a person is total and utter creative fiction, there is something beyond value or credibility that fills in where the belief once held up it's façade. The ownership of such or even the trying to give "that" away is the very concealment of it. It's like owning and continually improving upon a sandcastle that's mostly complete but never quite enough, taking a rest from it, and coming back to see that there was no sign of there ever having been one. You've nothing at all, and yet the entire infinite ocean. 

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

@Phil I know your stance on this and you as well know my stance on this . We've rambled about it numerous times .I'm not gonna argue. 

As in the consciousness which is conscious of that thought, is infinite. The knower, which is separate of & knows about consciousness, is illusory. 

[Someone here]

31 minutes ago, Mandy said:

@Someone here In the realization that the idea that awakening can happen for and to a person is total and utter creative fiction, there is something beyond value or credibility that fills in where the belief once held up it's façade. The ownership of such or even the trying to give "that" away is the very concealment of it. It's like owning and continually improving upon a sandcastle that's mostly complete but never quite enough, taking a rest from it, and coming back to see that there was no sign of there ever having been one. You've nothing at all, and yet the entire infinite ocean. 

what your saying is partially true..however just simply being in the present moment and not expecting a flashy event called "enlightenment " will not raise your conciousness to the point where you will awaken.  I mean lets be real for a sencond ..You are not Eckart Tolle or Rubert Spira. Nor am I. Do you seriously want to convince me that I'm equally awake as them ?

"There is no person to awaken blah blah " is such  a spirituality for dummies. This is not resonating with me with all honesty .

 Although In a relative sense..the person that sits down and meditates can be said to be seeking.. and that behavior is necessary for him to get to where he wants.. but in an absolute sense..there is no person seeking and there is no place to go. Im aware of that deep down ... But ...Then what do you tell people?

Well..you could say that enlightenment is when there is a spontaneous flip from the first perspective to the second perspective. It would therefore be wrong to say either "stop seeking there is nothing to seek" or "keep going there is something to seek".. because it depends on where you're currently at in the spiritual path. It just depends. 

Edited July 21 by Someone here

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Phil said:

As in the consciousness which is conscious of that thought, is infinite. The knower, which is separate of & knows about consciousness, is illusory. 

No .I mean about whether people have consciousness or consciousness have people. 

[Phil]

16 minutes ago, Someone here said:

No .I mean about whether people have consciousness or consciousness have people. 

Right. That consciousness is infinite is true. That people have consciousness is a belief. 

 

Check direct experience. Try to find a beginning or ending of consciousness. 

When people have consciousness is experienced, be aware of the thought. 

Or maybe investigate where people have it. And if there are in fact people which hate. 

[Blessed2]

9 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

The narrative at that time was all about becoming something. Becoming enlightened, becoming high conscious, becoming more wise and intelligent. Me becoming this and that.

 

That's the old story. A me becoming something like enlightened, more conscious, more knowing, better, developed etc.

 

The new seems to be more about not a me at all and not becoming anything, but perception, experiencing what I want to experience.

 

Basically thought-story narrative about a me-character vs. life.

 

This is life. This room and this house is life. The person next to me is life. Going for a hike or a swim is life. Waking up in the morning and eating a breakfast is life.

 

Knowing, understanding, becoming better is not actually life. It's just self-referential thought story. It's like rocks disrupting the flow of life.

 

Edited July 21 by Blessed2

[MetaSage]

10 hours ago, Someone here said:

I don't get all the hatred towards Leo.  You are extremely exaggerating. Maybe you are butthurt cause you were banned .

 

Sounds like this may in fact be true.

Edited July 21 by MetaSage

[MetaSage]

Jesus, like replacing Coca-Cola with Pepsi.

Edited July 21 by MetaSage

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

Right. That consciousness is infinite is true. That people have consciousness is a belief. 

 

Check direct experience. Try to find a beginning or ending of consciousness. 

When people have consciousness is experienced, be aware of the thought. 

Or maybe investigate where people have it. 

My definition of "consciousness "...is simply this .  Full stop .that's it .the end .

 

You said "consciousness is infinite"..in other words consciousness is everything.  And therefore consciousness is people.  People must be inculded in consciousness because its infinite .

both "consciousness have people " and "people have consciousness " are true .

maybe the former is more accurate than the latter ..but still..if you tell a random stranger in the grocery store "hey..I'm not a person with consciousness...I am consciousness appearing as a person " he will think you are a basket case . So one could be true but not pragmatic. I don't shy away from entertaining both perspectives. But you keep yourself stuck In one perspective and you don't want to expand your mind .

[Phil]

16 minutes ago, Someone here said:

My definition of "consciousness "...is simply this .  Full stop .that's it .the end .

Consciousness is present and conscious of the thought about there being a separate self with a definition about consciousness. Non-conceptually, direct experience wise. 

 

16 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 

You said "consciousness is infinite"..in other words consciousness is everything.

No. Everything is as appears. Everything is the thought ‘everything’.

Nonduality means not two. Everything would be not-me, or, second, implying a separate self. 

 

16 minutes ago, Someone here said:

  And therefore consciousness is people.  People must be inculded in consciousness because its infinite .

That seems to be a common misinterpretation of nonduality, but truly consciousness is infinite. Consciousness being infinite is consciousness and there isn’t other-than-consciousness for consciousness to be. Nor would infinite consciousness ever desire to be other-than infinite consciousness. 

 

16 minutes ago, Someone here said:

both "consciousness have people " and "people have consciousness " are true .

No, it’s a misunderstanding. 

 

16 minutes ago, Someone here said:

maybe the former is more accurate than the latter ..but still..if you tell a random stranger in the grocery store "hey..I'm not a person with consciousness...I am consciousness appearing as a person

That’s still the same. Consciousness is not appearing as a person. Consciousness might seemingly be obscured by thoughts, interpretations or limiting beliefs. 

 

16 minutes ago, Someone here said:

" he will think you are a basket case .

That there are thinkers thinking is based on misidentification as a thinker. It’s presumed. It’s overlooked that it is in fact thoughts. 

Allowing thought to clear and inspecting direct experience is clarifying. 

 

16 minutes ago, Someone here said:

So one could be true but not pragmatic.

One’s true and one’s a belief. Check direct experience. 

 

16 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I don't shy away from entertaining both perspectives.

It’s not about a you or a me, it’s really about checking direct experience as to what is a belief and what is true. 

 

16 minutes ago, Someone here said:

But you keep yourself stuck In one perspective and you don't want to expand your mind .

Consciousness isn’t ‘in’ the perspective consciousness is being. Not to beat a dead horse but again, this is sort of obvious if shifting from conceptualizing to direct experience isn’t it? 

 

Spirituality can be about inspecting as to what is actually true, which dispels limiting beliefs. Spirituality doesn’t have to be about adding beliefs revolving around improved mistaken identity. 

[Cooper Swam]

On 3/18/2022 at 7:20 AM, Forza21 said:

The point of this threat is NOT to demonize Leo, although it may sound this way. The point of this threat is NOT to justify myself, or blame anyone else. As many of you know, i have big issue with the latest insights, but i DO NOT blame actualize.org! In fact, i consider it, as a great lesson to be learned.

The point of this topic is to have honest and open discussion. I've noticed some "red flags" of Leo teachings. If i'm wrong with anything, just write your opinion. 

1) Leo claims that he surpasses anyone with his level of awaking. I've never seen any other spiritual guru do that. If anything, they always say, they are not better anyhow.
2) Lately, Leo, started to call tools of spiritual growth, such as meditation and yoga, as "useless", he only puts psychedelics on pedestal.  Isn't it too radical?
3) Leo started to use the term "solipsism" lately. I've seen a post from 2019, and he calls "solipsism" a bad map, and now he uses it all the time. No other spiritual guru do that, as it may be misleading. I think this might be also my case.
4) Leo bans his mods, who have different way of teaching.  I don't think someone that "radical open-minded"(as he claims himself to be)would do that.
5) Leo's answers on the forum aren't so loving and compassionate, i would say, they are rather harsh, to say at least. If anything, this work should make you more humble, shouldn't it?
6) Leo shits on "no-duality", "no-self", "neo-advaita" teachings, even though i believe it's core foundation for enlightenment.
7)There are a lot of people who seeks help after psychological breakdown, who are even suicidal ( yeah, it was my case too, even though i was mentally stable person)I know it may be just correlation, because mentally unstable people often seeks help in spirituality, but it's still some point to consider.

Now when i look back, i think i might have put too much trust in him, or anyone else. From now on, i shall trust only my feelings and if it resonates with me.  I think it's a lesson to be learned. 

What do you think?

 

Leo lost the game when he states he is the most awake person there and then acts like the most unawake person there. 

 

Anyone who doesn't agree with him is called stupid. Thats not something the most awake person would say or act like. 

 

He even turns on the fan boys and treats them mean. 

 

He is threatened by the true awakened ones. 

 

 

 

 

[Cooper Swam]

I should add too that i generally don’t know any of you here from that other place. You were all long gone before i arrived. Unless you use other names there? Only person I do remember is Someone Here, you are an Indian guy? You used to shit post a lot there, i never took you seriously, but maybe here you are more present.   I joined about 18 months ago and haven’t really posted about awakened things there as I’ve been processing my own awakenings and just found the negativity so high on a lot of threads. So i read mostly. Through reading i found this forum after a month, as i found posts and i googled whatever Phil’s name was? Na’am?? Is that right? And found this place, bookmarked it for a later date and only just joined here. 

 

I used to be on a lot of new age, spiritual forums and always preferred the smaller, quieter forums. A bit more soul to them. 

 

Just want to clarify all that as i’m sure you get most people via there. 

Edited July 21 by Cooper Swam

[Reena]

1 hour ago, Cooper Swam said:

I should add too that i generally don’t know any of you here from that other place. You were all long gone before i arrived. Unless you use other names there? Only person I do remember is Someone Here, you are an Indian guy? You used to shit post a lot there, i never took you seriously, but maybe here you are more present.   I joined about 18 months ago and haven’t really posted about awakened things there as I’ve been processing my own awakenings and just found the negativity so high on a lot of threads. So i read mostly. Through reading i found this forum after a month, as i found posts and i googled whatever Phil’s name was? Na’am?? Is that right? And found this place, bookmarked it for a later date and only just joined here. 

 

I used to be on a lot of new age, spiritual forums and always preferred the smaller, quieter forums. A bit more soul to them. 

 

Just want to clarify all that as i’m sure you get most people via there. 

Happy to have you here. 

[Cooper Swam]

41 minutes ago, Reena said:

Happy to have you here. 

Thank you! 

[WhiteOwl]

@Someone hereyou talk about being the most conscious person, but you have no idea what you mean when you say “you” or “me”. Not a thought about being 90% awoke or less, but in direct experience, where is the person or Object who can even be 90% awake.

 

does the most conscious rabbit exist? The most conscious tree? And who knows this?

You talk about all these grand ideas but you havent gone do deeply into that question.

What a lazy, dilluded “seeker”. You aint getting nowhere. 

[Someone here]

@WhiteOwl obviously I know what "me" is .  I'm a human being. Here I am .

There is also no need to attack me personally.