What Political Values do you Align With Most?

[Jonas Long]

24 minutes ago, Orb said:

@Jonas Long higher minimum wage doesn't actually change anything, it actually leads to inflation. 

 

How is 15$ an hour livable when it leads to increased prices for housing and stuff like groceries? 

That's just one aspect, the point is the left is FOR lots of things.  Also increasing taxes for the major wealthy(NOT the lower income, thats another right-wing strawman).  We don't have a functioning capitalistic democracy if a person can work 2 full time jobs and have to choose between paying rent or buying food.  The right insists that we have a perfect meritocracy in which those who work hard naturally thrive, that is a fairy tale.  Taxing the majorly wealthy in conjuction with a higher minimum wage would change so much, with minimum or no inflation as a result.

 

Not to mention the left is FOR addressing climate change while the majority of the right are still denying it.  

Edited August 29, 2023 by Jonas Long

[Mandy]

@OrbHigher wages has very little to do with the inflation we've been experiencing. The government printed SO much money to float through the pandemic, which results in inflation simply because more money is circulating. At the same time there were so many other factors like shortages that were heightened during the pandemic. There was a chip shortage caused by multiple factors which increased the already existing vehicle shortage. Barges got stuck due to an accident and couldn't move to transport parts and chips. The housing shortage was also fueled by a lot of factors that were partly due to the aftermath of the 2008 financial crash, and the pandemic, much fewer homes were built post 2008, then suddenly due to remote work becoming accepted and commonplace people were given the freedom to move and leave cities to work remotely and therefore increased demand for housing and larger homes, plus the coincidence of the popularity of Air B and B/Vbro etc. 

 

If there's a lot more money circulating and goods are a lot more scarce, you get inflation. All that has very little to do with what the person stocking the shelves at the grocery store is paid.  If suddenly that person's rent has gone up 40% and the replacement cost of their vehicle the require to drive to the grocery store to work has gone up 45%, and their food bill is up 20%, you wouldn't expect them to continue on as they were and blame the increase on the increase they got after the fact. 

[Blessed2]

1 hour ago, Jonas Long said:

The left is for lots of things.

 

Did I say that left is not for lots of things? 😂

 

Edit: oop, sorry I misunderstood what you meant by that

 

Yeah, left is for those things. I'm talking from my own experience in what I've seen in leftist social media and my leftist friends. To get more specific I'd say the young lefties.

 

What I described there isn't really a strawman, it's quite obviously the case. I get why it seemed like a strawman to you, the way I said the left is never for anything sounds like that, but there is some truth to it though. But there are also a lot of leftie energy that isn't unhealthy like that. Perhaps a bit more mature stage green ya know.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Blessed2

[Blessed2]

1 hour ago, Mandy said:

@Blessed2 I'm not saying that we would completely abolish elected officials (or not currently) but rely less heavily on them. City planning boards with members that are experts in their fields (civil engineers, transportation engineers, etc) would still be the most efficient form of government for most issues that arise, but not all. And electing these officials still makes sense. And of course you'd have federal officials, experts and diplomats, etc. You still need leaders to make time is of the essence kind of decisions that don't allow for voting. However a lot of the issues that Congress votes on, such as whether or not to abolish daylight savings, guaranteeing abortion rights, student loan forgiveness, the passing of the affordable care act, allocation of funds towards certain projects, could and would be best voted on by the entire population in my opinion. The gridlock in Congress isn't serving the people, the elections are gross and negatively charged, it would be best to change the rolls these officials play in my opinion. 

 

Sounds good 🙏

[Orb]

@Mandy a higher minimum wage leads to businesses increasing the cost of their products, this contributing to inflation. Yes there's many factors leading to inflation, I think a higher minimum wage is indeed one of them. 

 

Just to put it into perspective imagine raising the minimum wage to 30 dollars per hour out of nowhere lol, this would clearly impact the economy, the same applies with 15, you can't just double the minimum wage and not expect consequences. I'm open minded to these "solutions" though, maybe it will work in the long run when inflation dies down.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Orb

[Mandy]

@Orb If a higher minimum wage isn't paid by corporations, the government pays to supplement the income of the employee and take care of their basic needs, not the corporation. Welfare is far more attractive than working for a low minimum wage so more opt for welfare checks rather than low paid positions. When a minimum wage worker has a medical emergency the hospital absorbs the cost, if this happens too much the hospital must rely on government assistance or assistance programs or the hospital can't operate. So either way the government must print the money, and tax payers have to pay instead, no one saves money by underpaying employees who are working for their income. We currently give far far better healthcare to people on welfare than people who have low income. But all of these expenses are paid for by taxpayers.  

 

Of course there's a balance, but the inflation we are seeing now did not begin with increased wages, it started with the pandemic, and the toilet paper shortage fiasco was the start of it all. 

 

 

[Jonas Long]

20 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

Did I say that left is not for lots of things? 😂

 

Edit: oop, sorry I misunderstood what you meant by that

 

Yeah, left is for those things. I'm talking from my own experience in what I've seen in leftist social media and my leftist friends. To get more specific I'd say the young lefties.

 

What I described there isn't really a strawman, it's quite obviously the case. I get why it seemed like a strawman to you, the way I said the left is never for anything sounds like that, but there is some truth to it though. But there are also a lot of leftie energy that isn't unhealthy like that. Perhaps a bit more mature stage green ya know.

Maybe you should be more selective about who you follow on social media.  Random kids tweets don't necessarily represent the political party they claim to align with. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Jonas Long

[Mandy]

20 minutes ago, Orb said:

@Mandy a higher minimum wage leads to businesses increasing the cost of their products, this contributing to inflation. Yes there's many factors leading to inflation, I think a higher minimum wage is indeed one of them. 

 

Just to put it into perspective imagine raising the minimum wage to 30 dollars per hour out of nowhere lol, this would clearly impact the economy, the same applies with 15, you can't just double the minimum wage and not expect consequences. I'm open minded to these "solutions" though, maybe it will work in the long run when inflation dies down.

No one has done that though, or is proposing it. Bernie Sanders is perhaps the biggest most well known proponent of increasing minimum wage and proposed raising it to $17 by 2028, but that hasn't even been decided yet. The federal minimum is $7.25. That's what it was or very close to when I got my first job as a teenager and back then a car was about HALF what it is today. 

[Orb]

@Mandy I've never heard of the government paying for workers if their company can't pay them the full wage, where did you see this? I will read it.

[Jonas Long]

Hoarding untaxed wealth has much more to do with inflation than raising the minimum wage ever could. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Jonas Long

[Orb]

2 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Hoarding untaxed wealth has much more to do with inflation than raising the minimum wage ever could. 

That's one factor that might be contributing to it, just one.

[Mandy]

@Orb It's just cause and effect. You see it in effect everywhere, when your hospital asks your income for example for qualifying for a sliding fee. If I can't make enough to make it worth my while to work for minimum wage, why wouldn't I just opt for governmental benefits instead and not work at all ? If I do work and get paid so little that low income still qualifies me for much lower costs on medical services, perhaps also assisted housing, food stamps, etc, the government picks up the tab for those supplements that I require because my job doesn't pay enough to cover my necessities. 

[Orb]

@Mandy there must be a balance, I'm all for programs that help people but at the same time I want to feel empowered and make it on my own without needing someone to assist me. The left stuff starts getting disempowering too quick. 

 

I don't trust any side, I think a balanced perspective is important.

[Orb]

@Mandy I have seen with my own two eyes people who live only on government assistance, it is not a pretty picture, usually very unhealthy, addicted to all kinds of pills, unhealthy lifestyle, depression. 

 

Imo it's because they are experiencing disempowering beliefs and emotions, but of course it's rich peoples fault, they have more money! 🥺

Edited August 29, 2023 by Orb

[Jonas Long]

1 minute ago, Orb said:

@Mandy I have seen with my own two eyes people who live only on government assistance, it is not a pretty picture, usually very unhealthy, addicted to all kinds of pills, unhealthy lifestyle, depression. 

With a higher minimum wage more people would opt to work for better pay than stay on welfare.  Poverty is a symptom of the current system and it leads to more crime, drug abuse, meth labs, etc.  

[Jonas Long]

6 minutes ago, Orb said:

@Mandy I have seen with my own two eyes people who live only on government assistance, it is not a pretty picture, usually very unhealthy, addicted to all kinds of pills, unhealthy lifestyle, depression. 

 

Imo it's because they are experiencing disempowering beliefs and emotions, but of course it's rich peoples fault, they have more money! 🥺

The rich are benefiting from the same system that disempowers the poor. That is the current paradigm.

[Mandy]

4 minutes ago, Orb said:

@Mandy there must be a balance, I'm all for programs that help people but at the same time I want to feel empowered and make it on my own without needing someone to assist me. The left stuff starts getting disempowering too quick. 

 

I don't trust any side, I think a balanced perspective is important.

Yes, it's very much to do with empowerment. I don't think minimum wage has any say anymore because workers can get jobs that pay far more. It's useless, it used to mean something and doesn't anymore because it hasn't been raised in so long. Companies simply can't get anyone to work for it. I think that people making a living wage is empowerment, as I said, if you aren't paid enough to live on, you rely on the government. It's not a liberal pro-financial assistance stance to want to workers to be paid well,  it's pro-empowerment. Just like I don't want my clothes made by children or by people treated unfairly, I don't want my grocery store shelves stocked by someone who isn't thriving. Sounds woo woo but we all feel that energy just walking through the store. Even better, if that employee is financially empowered to be able to afford to support my business rather than just scraping by, all the better for everyone. 

[Jonas Long]

Wealth cannot be hoarded or even accrued in good conscience, there is simply no way to get and stay that wealthy without actively supporting and perpetuating a system that necessarily disenfranchises those who are born into poverty.  

 

Simply put, as long as there are the grotesquely wealthy there will be the grotesquely impoverished 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Jonas Long

[Orb]

3 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Wealth cannot be hoarded or even accrued in good conscience, there is simply no way to get and stay that wealthy without actively supporting and perpetuating a system that necessarily disenfranchises those who are born into poverty.  

So what amount of money is considered okay then? 

 

Also you do realize that those rich people "hoarding" all the money are actually creating 1000s of jobs right? 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Orb

[Jonas Long]

Just now, Orb said:

So what amount of money is considered okay then? 

Enough to afford decent housing, clothes, food, providing for a family comfortably.