Devin Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, Orb said: Yes but the use if it nowadays is a bit misleading. Like for the modern American, what does "democracy" mean in terms of political alignment, does that mean valuing tradition, individual responsibility, or egalitarianism, charity, etc. When you use that old left/right model of course everyone wants to pick "democracy", but what does that actually mean? Democracy has never meant any of those, it means everyone has equal vote. No, not everyone does, many prefer a monarchy structure. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted August 28, 2023 Author Share Posted August 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Devin said: No, I mean on the issues, say 70% of Americans oppose; tax increases, universal basic income, free college, .... socialists would still try to force those to be passed, that's fascist like According to a recent poll, the vast majority of Americans oppose Biden's tax hike. Even the left-leaning Tax Policy Center has warned this tax scheme “won't work” and is “ripe for abuse.” The poll found: Overall, Americans oppose taxing unrealized gains by a 3 to 1 ratio, 75 percent – 25 percent.Mar 30, 2022 https://waysandmeans.house.gov › ... POLL: Majority of Americans Oppose Biden's Latest Tax Hike Scheme Great find. Quote Mention ♾️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 When people go after the right as fascist, they're right about many, but many undertones are mistaken and actually align with monarchy. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted August 28, 2023 Author Share Posted August 28, 2023 Just now, Devin said: Democracy has never meant any of those, it means everyone has equal vote. No, not everyone does, many prefer a monarchy structure. Yea but I'm just saying that you're speaking Chinese by using this model and everyone else is speaking English, people won't understand you. I actually agree with democracy just meaning everyone has an equal vote. But for different people democracy means different things. Hence, left and right wing spectrum as it's known today. We aren't gonna see eye to eye on this but it's all good man, I appreciate the authenticity and always referencing sources. Quote Mention ♾️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 11 minutes ago, Orb said: I hear you. But like you mentioned earlier. The definitions of left and right have changed significantly, and to prevent confusion I'd rather go by the modern understanding. Indicated here: Left wing: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics Right wing: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics Yeah, those are new, within 7 years, pre 7 years it was what I said for 150 years. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted August 28, 2023 Author Share Posted August 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Devin said: When people go after the right as fascist, they're right about many, but many undertones are mistaken and actually align with monarchy. Yea but a lot of right leaning people (republicans) do value everyone having an equal vote. They very much value free speech and other democratic values, they do not want a monarch. I live in florida, believe me, no one wants a monarch over here 😂. Quote Mention ♾️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted August 28, 2023 Author Share Posted August 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Devin said: Yeah, those are new, within 7 years, pre 7 years it was what I said for 150 years. Okay so we are disagreeing on semantics, got it. Quote Mention ♾️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 The street definitions have changed RADICALLY in the last few years Orb, that's why I asked my first post, that's why no two young people have the same definitions for them. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Orb said: Yea but a lot of right leaning people (republicans) do value everyone having an equal vote. They very much value free speech and other democratic values, they do not want a monarch. I live in florida, believe me, no one wants a monarch over here 😂. Trumpism, The Big Steal, that's opposing democratic values, that's disregarding equal vote Orb, completely. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted August 28, 2023 Author Share Posted August 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Devin said: The street definitions have changed RADICALLY in the last few years Orb, that's why I asked my first post, that's why no two young people have the same definitions for them. Well in this thread I have posted links for the right and left wings I am referring to. I question if the right left wing model I'm going by really is just 7 years old...but I'll look into that. 2 minutes ago, Devin said: Trumpism, The Big Steal, that's opposing democratic values, that's disregarding equal vote Orb, completely. It's not that simple, there could be a larger republican base that liked trump and then a smaller base that supported him throughout the January 6 stuff and the "Big Steal". From all the Republicans I know, none of them behave that way or support trump in that way. They may agree with some of his policies but not his behaviors or actions like the Jan 6 thing. Quote Mention ♾️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted August 28, 2023 Author Share Posted August 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Devin said: Trumpism, The Big Steal, that's opposing democratic values, that's disregarding equal vote Orb, completely. "Trumpism" is not republicanism. Quote Mention ♾️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted August 28, 2023 Author Share Posted August 28, 2023 @Devin so in the old model, would you say socialism and fascism would both lean toward the monarchy side? Quote Mention ♾️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Orb said: It's not that simple, there could be a larger republican base that liked trump and then a smaller base that supported him throughout the January 6 stuff and the "Big Steal". From all the Republicans I know, none of them behave that way or support trump in that way. They may agree with some of his policies but not his behaviors or actions like the Jan 6 thing. CBS News www.cbsnews.com CBS News poll finds Trump's big lead grows, as GOP voters dismiss ... Aug 20, 2023 — At the debate this week, voters want candidates to focus on making the case for themselves — not against Trump Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted August 28, 2023 Author Share Posted August 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Devin said: CBS News www.cbsnews.com CBS News poll finds Trump's big lead grows, as GOP voters dismiss ... Aug 20, 2023 — At the debate this week, voters want candidates to focus on making the case for themselves — not against Trump I'm gonna read into that whole "era" when the Jan 6th stuff happened and the "big steal". I see how fucked up the trump situation is, but I'm also questioning the biden side too 🤔. Quote Mention ♾️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted August 28, 2023 Author Share Posted August 28, 2023 @Devin in terms of political values, I used to align more left (democrat) now I align more right (republican). I do not agree with a lot of trumpers on stuff but let's face it, both sides can be crazy lol. Quote Mention ♾️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 1 minute ago, DMT Elf said: You’re cherry-picking. And this is just flat out wrong. According to the polls I’ve looked at, the majority of Americans support all of that stuff with the exception of UBI which is still somewhat controversial. However no politicians are seriously trying to push that, so it’s a moot point. Other “socialist” issues with popular support include universal healthcare, and student loan forgiveness. Suggesting that these are minority issues being pushed on an unwilling majority is as absurd as equating socialism with fascism. Either you’re very ill informed, or you’re purposely being misleading. I'm not saying that's true, I posed a hypothetical, reread it as that. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, Orb said: @Devin in terms of political values, I used to align more left (democrat) now I align more right (republican). I do not agree with a lot of trumpers on stuff but let's face it, both sides can be crazy lol. What's crazy about the mainstream of the left wing? Because I disagree with that sentiment. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Orb said: @Devin so in the old model, would you say socialism and fascism would both lean toward the monarchy side? Socialism can be either, it's not a form of government, if the majority votes for a specific socialist policy like UBI, that's democratic, if congress passes an unpopular Obamacare, that's Monarchy. Fascism is strictly Monarchy though. Edited August 28, 2023 by Devin Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 It's binary, not subjective, democracy is a majority vote, monarchy is not. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted August 28, 2023 Author Share Posted August 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, Devin said: What's crazy about the mainstream of the left wing? Because I disagree with that sentiment. I'm not talking necessarily about the left wing, rather some people who represent it. Just like how people who stormed capitol Hill were right leaning but I do not agree with them at all. Quote Mention ♾️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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