Forza21
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Posts posted by Forza21
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On 1/6/2023 at 2:57 PM, Mandy said:
The word dream can mean your deepest most aligned desire, or something that does not have reality depending on connotations/interpretations. Anything is possible and everything is already a magic beyond comprehension. That we can share this world together, connect, communicate, surprise one another but never ever really be apart or alone, that the very same moon we look at when we look up whether we are thousands of miles away, is in essence the very same Awareness behind the eyes seeing, closer than close. What a more romantic scenario or intimacy and drama and ever okayness than that I can't imagine. You can have you cake and eat it too. The moon is distant, and only ever in your heart.
That is beautyfull. ❤️
On 1/6/2023 at 11:38 PM, Phil said:That would feel off because it implies two. Knowing & consciousness are synonymous. One in the same.
If it’s seems I’m knocking the expressing of loneliness, please don’t don’t take that way. It’s as valid expression as any. I’m suggesting it’s expressing a concept, with the relevance being that the concept is felt, and expressing the underlying emotions clarifies why the concept feels as it does.
Yes, i meant "knowing" or synonymously - conciousness. 🙂
It's ok, it seems i won't ever get it by reading it. While talking with you it's different, you just influence/communicate beyond words with your energy. : -)
just found this :
https://www.actualityofbeing.com/what-is-co-creation
and it resonates, as co-creation... 🙂 -
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15 minutes ago, Phil said:
What’s the Stuff?
Knowing off.
conciousness. -
6 hours ago, Phil said:
What is the dream made of?
The same Stuff, reality is made off.
3 hours ago, Phil said:Emotional suppression. Loneliness & solipsism are conceptual.
So to speak, you’re asking for the answer you don’t want to hear.
Ive seen a lot of rhetorics like that „difficult truth” „noone is man enough to hear it” „you cant accept The truth” etc…
please dont go this way.
if i feel Discord in what you write, what should i do? Even if Jesus says something that doesnt make me more loving and compasionate i shall not listen to it. And what you say here, doesnt. Or i understand it wrong.
maybe its because of words.
maybe because of still holding memories from actualize…or something else
dont know.
Do you love your kids ?how would you feel if someone said to you, „in a name of hard truth you need to accept that your kids doesnt matter and i can do whatever with them…”
its exatly like that.
What are your kids to you ? -
14 hours ago, Blessed2 said:
Just a question that came to mind... If there was a perfect teaching, the perfect truth, the perfect god, the perfect reality for you, what would it be? What kind of truth / reality would you want? What would a paradise be?
12 hours ago, Phil said:What is the teaching that is expected or hoped for or wanted?
Whats the ideal teaching?
Any specific questions on what’s already been said?
Is there a difference between ‘I’m feeling frustrated, angry and sad’… and the emotions frustration & anger are experienced?
If so, what’s the difference?
Perfect teaching... Buddha and Jesus comes to mind.
Jesus:And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.
Buddha:Have compassion for all beings, rich and poor alike; each has their suffering. Some suffer too much, others too little.
Gautama Buddha
They never used "dream" analogy.
Buddha was born in India, as you know, there's Hindu tradition and dream analogy is known, and used for centuries. Somehow, Buddha refused to cling to their tradition, and found his own path.
In Buddhism there's only saying about "dreaming-mind" and "clinging to thoughts" not life equal to a nighttime dream.
I've seen enough bad things done by this analogy. On actualize there was countless topics like that. For example, one guy, who got caught by dream analogy, was literally abusing his grandmother, as "she is only his dream". There was many topics like that, and 'dream analogy" was always an excuse. Do you really agree with that?
This dream analogy is inhumane. It lacks integration aspect. It lacks the relative aspect to the absolute. You can as well treat everyone like shit, because it's only "dream character". It's not close to Jesus or Buddha teachings. The discord with this analogy is giant.
Osho also refused to ever use it, because he saw, what this analogy has done to his country - where millions of people die in extreme poverty, and none bothers - it's only a dream.
I don't care how accurate it is, i feel giant discord about it, and it's all i care about.
if it comes to me, what's the perfect truth - i'd rather be mortal human, living on earth and die, than alone as "God" who can never share anything with anyone, because he's lonely. This truth of yours doesn't resonate with me.
Somehow when i talk to Phil on phone it was clear, but when i read the stuff he writes... it brings all shity memories.
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1 hour ago, Phil said:
Great questions.
What is motivation, or motive?
What is a you?
Motive:
Some thing, such as a need or desire, that causes a person to act.
A mental state or force which induces an act of volition; a determining impulse: specifically, a desire for some thing; a gratification contemplated as the final cause of a certain action of the one desiring it.
Separate selves (people, person, ‘you’), states, desire & cause - are thoughts, like “unicorn”.
There is an apparent experience of thoughts - as thoughts appear, like the thought “unicorn”.
There is no actual experience of these ‘things’, only of the thoughts - just like “unicorn”.
In believing these thoughts, these - conditions - an illusion is experienced, of unconditional being a condition… a, “separate self”.
This is equivalent to believing there are unicorns, and that you are a unicorn.
For the “separate self”, which is “itself” an illusion of believing appearing thoughts… there is “meaning, purpose, worth, value and survival”.
All of which are thoughts, believed, which keep the story or narrative - the illusion of being a separate self - going.
The survival narrative of thoughts.
That is, thoughts and perception are not things, but rather are an appearance.
The ‘separate self’ is the my & me of; my thoughts, my purpose, what X means to me, what meaning means to me, what is worthy and or unworthy to me, what is of value and not of value - to me.
This video communicates the discordant & harmful experience of the false survival thought narrative in terms of bodily health with respect to well being.
When the activity of thought meditatively settles, so too does the experience of believing thoughts, and therein the illusion of separate selves & the identity as a separate self is dispelled. In Buddhism terminology this is pointed to as cessation, awakening, or enlightenment. In Christian or Biblical terminology this is referred to as Christ consciousness or God consciousness. In general terms, liberation, seeing reality as it is, being home never having left, wakefulness waking up, or most simply The Truth.
What about without - for me?
How inspiring could it be to ‘do’ anything at all, for a self which doesn’t exist, yet which all ‘doing’ is attributed to?
There aren’t others.
There’s no doer.
Not, two.
The dream analogy is an accurate analogy. Very accurate. Nihilism is an ism, meaning is implied - by oneself. Nihilism is essentially denial. It’s like saying “this sucks to me”, while there isn’t that “me”. It’s the meaning believed, that there is an importance to meaning, purpose, worth, value and survival. Which is to say, it is the belief that thoughts are not thoughts, but are things. That is the discord felt.
The ‘self’ in ‘time’ is an illusion of believing thoughts. Self is believing the thoughts. Self is presence, ‘now’ - believing arising thoughts about another self, a finite separate second self, in a ‘past’.
so what's the difference between what Leo says and what you say?
it's like you are way more loving and caring, but when i read this, it seems all the same. It's like Leo says "you are God" and you say " You are unconditional love (God) and there's no further differences in these teachings... You both say that i create all the world... ( you also mention that there's no "me" but anyway you point back as "you") . You also say that solipsism is just a thought, but in what you say i see really no difference...
right now i'm feeling frustrated, angry and sad, i feel like i've thought that i'll find some different teaching here, and it really seems all the same... -
3 hours ago, Phil said:
Loneliness, like analogies, is conceptual. Essentially, thought(s).
So when expressing loneliness, what’s felt - is the concept; loneliness.
Whereas expressing emotions is expressing what’s felt.
🙏🏻🤍
So what motivates you to:
-write a book ?
-take so much time, to help people like me, and many more. on the forum?
-do youtube channel?
-take care of your relationship?-take care of your kids?
For me all "ism" thoughts kills any drive to do anything...
why help others when it's only a dream?
why do anything when it's only a dream?
Pointless, boring, i don't know anymore what's true or not...
and that "dream" analogy for me is nihilistic and solipstic all the way. I used to do youtube channel myself, and it was joyful, but now, i don't know who am i talking to anymore... and anserw " you" brings me all "ism" thoughts possible. -
Happy anniversary! Congratulation!
I also wonder, what makes this one person "special?" in the eyes of non-duality we are all same, equal, and not special anyhow. So why "this wife" this particular person, as family?
Also, i wonder what about people living with more than 1 partner? Are we, as humans, able to create intimate relations-ships with more people? Is it moral? Is it worth it?
In the nutshell, what's your take on polygamy vs monogamy, (considering non-dual truth vs how society is structured)?I am so curious! 🙂 You are probably the only peson i know, like ever, who is highly realized, and yet with long-time relationship. ❤️ It's soo interesting to know your take on that.
Love -
6 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:
@Forza21 Have you read ACIM?
Really recommend it. It explains the dream of separation and waking up with such clarity no words really do justice.
I recommend reading some introductory book on it first. The source material is pretty hard to read right away. Disappearance of the Universe by Gary Renard is pretty good and an easy starting point.
If you go for it, be sure to give yourself some time to ground and clear up. I literally got sick for a couple of days because the clarity is just so damn intense, and some discord came up and out. If any questions come up, be sure to ask. It can be a bit confusing at first. Or maybe it was just my experience, dunno.
I sure heard about it many times, but to be honest, what keeps me from it, is "dream analogy" and i've seen ACIM is full of it. There are also some ACIM fundamentalist who says exactly this "it's only a dream it doesn't matter!" i don't really grasp how it might to set me free 🙂 i might give it a try, i sure see, that it works for you! ❤️
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On 12/27/2022 at 3:46 PM, Phil said:
You are not an object in spacetime.
When you dream at night it is as if you are in the dream - isn’t it so?
When you wake up it is clear you were not - isn’t it so?
You aren’t right now!
One thing comes to mind -
I've never felt this analogy of "dream" . Advaita - Vedanta is full of it, and i really can't see, how when someone when hear "life is nothing but a dream" doesn't come to nihilistic or solipsistic conclusions. I really can't see how it's supposed to be freeing in any way.
For example India, where this "dream" narrative is present for hundreds of years, preached by all "mystics" there , and how this country is drowning in misery, and poverty "because it's only a dream... why care about it? Discard it!"
Isn't it always two side of the coin? Relative = absolute ? This appearance is everything we really have, isn't it so?I wonder how you exactly see it? For example war at Ukraine, there's no one to suffer, or to battle, but does it mean we should totally dismiss it, because it's only a dream? ( it's really closed to my borders, btw.)
I really don't get this analogy. 🙂
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Thank you, Phil. It always gets me, and puts a tear in my eye, how much work, time, and devotion it takes for you, to answer that specifically. 🥰
I guess truth cannot be shared by words, language is dualistic in nature. I might give up reading/listening to this stuff and focus just on equanimity/meditation. It's hard, because "spiritual knowledge" gives my this false sense of "security" , but it always backfires anyway, after some time. 🙂
Anyway, thank you so much for everything you do!!! -
19 hours ago, James123 said:
The key of the path is the you, who is alone, born or die is illusion in the first place. Whatever you "think" is illusion itself.
Yes, and somehow mind always seems to trick me into beliving it…
17 hours ago, Phil said:There is no such thing as a thought about yourself which is true. The self which can be thought about is not the self.
i am doing my best. I medidate a looot, and theres times with great clarity (for example after our talk…❤️ ) but it gets blurry after time, and some „isms” win in the end. And The greater clarity and freedom from ego mind, the harder it comes back… This path is rough. 🥲 -
In past few weeks, I am really open to feel everything.
Every emotion is welcome, fear, anxiety, terror, panic, whatever it is.
I've been running, whole my life, from my biggest fear, - fear of loneliness, and it's time to face it.
It comes from my childhood ( many events, like for example, the man who were supposed to protect me - my father, once when he was furious, he almost ran over me. Then he left me alone. )
it's difficult to accept that i'm alone.I was born alone. I'm living alone. And i'll die alone. Nothing can ever change that.
I'm not possibly talking about solipsism, but the very fact of human nature.I can't possibly "touch" "others", become "one" with them, it's beyond my reach.
And it's so frustrating. Even when you love so much, you just can't drown your loneliness.
No matter how much you love your wife/kids, it's like always missing something. Like there's still that shadow of loneliness present.And still, there's a giant discord felt.
Why loneliness is a such pain, such discord, when it's our true nature?
Why "loneliness" isn't in "emotional scale" ? i'm pretty sure this is some different feeling than simply "fear" "anxiety" etc.
It's like you have this best thing ever, and you want to share it, and yet, there's no one to help or to give it to.
What is the point?
I don't want to live just for the sake of myself. It's like having all the wealth in the world, and still being alone on the giant yacht,not being able to share the joy and happiness.
I struggle a lot with my relationship. I know @Philsaid that there's only one being present in that - it doesn't make any sense logically, i still can't imagine who i'm actually talking to while facing her.
I just can't possibly grasp that. Mind always turns in into "i'm here and she's not there..."
There's also a lot of anger. Like :
"This fucking path should led me to peace and happiness, and it turns out, that it's only me and my room, no outside world, so fucking great being here, lonely. "|
"Life doesn't have any purpose if it's only me"
" For what should i work? i used to work to help someone, and now... what's the point?"
And honestly, even dream board doesn't make any difference, because with that "perspective" there's literally no point to attain any experience. I could learn to Lucid dream and it's the same. Pointless...if you have something to share, please do 🙂
P.S
Phil, would you consider recording video with your wife and talk about how you both "see" it ? There's literally no video like that on YouTube, when a couple talks about non-dual understating in relationship. It would be great.
love ❤️
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9 hours ago, Phil said:
🙏
Sure turns the otherwise mundane into the miraculous doesn’t it?
Oh Yes! Its like God doesnt have his own face, apart from milion of faces. ❤️
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In experience, you never see your own face.
You need to „borrow” your face while looking at „other”.
Once you get it, you fell in love with everyone. Its The only face you actually see. Face of someone who’s right infront of you.Make sure that face is happy. Make your loved one’s happy.
much love❤️❤️❤️😍
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Does it resonate for you?
I also find this quotes of "dream of God" or "play of God" etc slightly off, as it might imply some duality - God as some kind of "background" of appearance itself. This one puts in quite nicely. What do you guys think?
QuoteSo called 'God' or intelligent Mind is empty of its own existence apart from Dharma, is not something changeless and independent, and is not some sort of source acting behind the scenes or pulling the strings. Because this vast impersonal intelligence is so magnificent, powerful and impersonal, it can give the impression that we are all just the dream or expression of a Universal Mind of God, and if we follow this 'personification' and 'reification' we may start to think whether we are living in a matrix, a dream of Shiva for no other reason than his own enjoyment. But we are not the play or lila of a Brahman, there is no need to personify or reify this at all. This intelligence IS the miracle of manifestation. The divine has no face of its own, and yet every face is the face of divinity. There is no I, no perceiver, or a controller of this spontaneous intelligent happening. Living this is living in complete ecstasy and joy born of this total intelligence, life and clarity.
In anatta there is a feeling of divinity, of being the one intelligence, god, mind, life, awareness etc but not as a background but purely as all ongoing appearances. As Rongzom Pandita said, all appearances are divine. If there is a feeling of eternity it is not of an unchanging background but of infinite interpenetration of time and space and as if past present future are inseparable from this moment.
If no background and no entity is not clear, this feeling of all pervading divinity easily gets reified into either a universal mind or solipsist thinking. Or an ultimate background behind everything. Which is all forms of inherency and subtle duality thinking.
All is the one life one intelligence one clarity flow. Hence with anatta insight, naturally one eats god, taste god, see god, smell god, sleep god. Liberate god - for god has no face of its own, only infinite faces. To be restricted in anyway, such as grasping at an image of awareness as a formless background, is to impose artificial limitations and separation on awareness and miss out the vibrant textures and forms of awareness. In truth there is no one face of god but ten thousand faces.
soure:
http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2015/03/vast-impersonal-intelligence_18.html?fbclid=IwAR0PfOjAuarHxVaWT3NJJoTs6k_MchkejDb74ezDnP8vg0jRGUQGSodHFzw
https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2022/06/wrote-to-christian-mystic.html?fbclid=IwAR3X8ZztPfEH0YIpUD5RFgQjBR_YdlJCURDUz88RVbm8DoNkQIhnKWUoyO8
and also 7 stages of Enlightenment
http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html
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I've had a private talk with Phil.
He's the most genuine, loving, caring, guy i've ever come across.
This talk was amazing. In fact, i have no words to say how good it was.
I still don't know what happened. Mind cannot possibly grasp that. Or even recall that. It just can't.
All i know is that truth is beautiful. Warm. Cozy. Intimate.
One Self is the most loving thing there could possibly be.
It's not lonely at all, in fact, it's so full, it's impossible. It's 0 distance apart from everything you ever loved. In fact, it's right here where you are.
Words can't touch that. Mind (as activity of the thoughts) can't touch that. Only instinctual knowing can.
But Phil really, really transmits truth beyond words and self-imposed limitations. You can feel it with whole body.
I can't thank Phil enough for his work and time. It's an amazing human, and transmitter of the truth.
Love you all. Love Phil. Love my OwnSelf.
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Phil, Will you put recording from zoom meeting ?🥹
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2 hours ago, Orb said:
@James123 @noomii @Blessed2 @Celestial @Forza21 @Kevin @nurthur11 @Phil
Let's chat tomorrow! (Saturday), you guys up for it?
Interesting how some people say up for it while in other areas people say are you down.
Today noon ETC ? @Phil are you in?
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14 hours ago, Phil said:
@Orb @Forza21 @James123 @Blessed2 @nurthur11 @noomii @Kevin @Celestial @sPiRiOn @fopylo
How’s noon eastern time Saturday Nov 26th sound?
(sorry if I inadvertently missed an @ for anyone!)
Great. How can i join? Is it gonna be on zoom ?
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@Someone here is it you, the guy from Leo's forum with "guy fawkes" awatar?:D
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19 minutes ago, Phil said:
i think you might rather give us exact date, and than we can say if we can make it 🙂 im +6h time zone, so your morning works for me. -
17 minutes ago, James123 said:
It is not between thinking and no thinking. Empty mind is realization is there is no such thing as mind or thoughts. For instance me, if I am supposed to do something, I think 1 time and I action. I don't over think. The conclusion is no suffering, freedom and love. Moreover, if I want to cry I cry, but just cry not suffer from crying. Because, if you put thought on crying, you suffer. If I get upset I get upset therefore cry. But during the crying I don't think therefore I don't suffer. Moreover, I become the fully crying. There is not a person who cries, i am the crying.
Because, enlightenment is must, not glimpses, but fully loaded enlightenment experience or death of thoughts/I is must.
I understand that.
But since there's no thinker of thoughts, and no doer, and i don't feel like i can do anything to "think less".
I just sit, and wait, until thoughts naturally settle down.
I don't choose if there are many thoughts or no thoughts.
But maybe i should go back to retreated, and just wait, until full realization takes place.
There's still that sense of struggle with "many thoughts" and clarity. 🙂
Are you up for a skype/zoom meeting to share our stories and discuss ideas about The path?
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yes 27 and 28 please !