How should we deal with criminals?

[Jonas Long]

3 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

That's a lot of questions.  I could address them one by one - or I could completely ignore them.   I guess the choice is mine and how lazy I want to be on a given day.  But I do want to thank you for engaging with me in this elegant dialogue.  Which, if we  strip away all bias, can yield some positive results.

Let me address the question of false positives first.  

Yea, false positives are an unfortunate possibility.   We must strive in the judicial system to try to cut those types of errors off at the head - but statistically we know that this isn't possible.   So - the question comes to bear - is this just an error that can be written off?  For now - yes.  But in the future we should be able to narrow our false positives down to almost zero.  And that should be our goal. 

 

Well, my opinion of you already couldn't get any lower before this conversation happened so, nothing gained or lost here.  

[Orb]

I think our current system actually works a lot better than most think. I mean take a second to appreciate that it has significantly reduced the number of possible criminal behavior because there's an awareness of the potential consequences. Is our current prison system effective at rehabilitation though? I'd say nope. But it is effective to a certain extent.

[Robed Mystic]

6 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Well, my opinion of you already couldn't get any lower before this conversation happened so, nothing gained or lost here.  

Lower is only lower relative to upper right?  

Keep sailing.   We're on the same ship brother- we are just trying to stay afloat.  Together, we just might. 

Edited April 1 by Robed Mystic

[Jonas Long]

3 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

Lower is only lower relative to upper right?  

Keep sailing.   We're in the same ship brother- we are just trying to stay afloat.  Together, we just might. 

The boat we are in includes those on death row, you're the one trying to sink it quicker. 

 

[Robed Mystic]

1 minute ago, Jonas Long said:

The boat we are in includes those on death row, you're the one trying to sink it quicker. 

 

I admire your enthusiasm and positivism.   In fact- without that - you couldn't exist.   At least not with any piece of mind.    But sadly you must realize there are individuals in this world that are beyond saving.   You cannot simply shift these individuals around.   You must deal with them.

[Jonas Long]

2 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

I admire your enthusiasm and positivism.   In fact- without that - you couldn't exist.   At least not with any piece of mind.    But sadly you must realize there are individuals in this world that are beyond saving.   You cannot simply shift these individuals around.   You must deal with them.

Exactly.  Like you.  I don't want to have you executed, but Im not necessarily opposed to shooting you into space, or deep sea as a test subject to further scientific exploration and more knowledge of the world.  Nobody is so shitty they can't be put to some sort of use.  Seems a waste just to "waste" them. 

[Robed Mystic]

32 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Exactly.  Like you.  I don't want to have you executed, but Im not necessarily opposed to shooting you into space, or deep sea as a test subject to further scientific exploration and more knowledge of the world.  Nobody is so shitty they can't be put to some sort of use.  Seems a waste just to "waste" them. 

Well that's very kind of you.   I appreciate the mercy shown.  But to me,  I'd prefer death over being  a scientific experiment.   Nothing personal of course. 

[Jonas Long]

8 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

Well that's very kind of you.   I appreciate the mercy shown.  But to me,  I'd prefer death over being  a scientific experiment.   Nothing personal of course. 

Well, unfortunately for you, it would bring more peace to my family to have you shot into space.

[Blessed2]

3 hours ago, Robed Mystic said:

They are beyond all rehabilitation and are just pure evil.

 

Sometimes thoughts come up that certain people are "hopeless cases". 

 

But I don't want to think that of others, cause it really just curve balls and bites you in the ass. If there really is someone who is a hopeless cause, it automatically holds the possibility that you could also be a hopeless case.

 

I'd go with grace-against-all-seeming-odds here. Mad love, mad devotion. I mean we probably both agree that God is infinite.

 

3 hours ago, Robed Mystic said:

better to just remove them and then save space for those that can be rehabilitated. 

 

I wonder if anything can per se be removed like that. I mean it sounds logical and rational, but it's not like logic and rationality hasn't ever failed us. 😂

 

Does death really do anything? Like how physical energy cannot be destroyed.

 

The thought that some people could be just waste of space is also a curveball and comes back in form of you could be a waste of space.

 

And again, God is infinite, yes? Then where does this shortage of healing / well-being (rehabilitation) come from? Is there not enough in infinity, even for hopeless cases?

 

[Blessed2]

It's also surprisingly hard to "humanely" execute a person. I once went down a wikipedia rabbit hole on all the methods of capital punishment and it seems that there really is no reliable methods. All of them can fail (and often do), or cause needless pain etc.

 

[Blessed2]

2 hours ago, Jonas Long said:

Who's gonna murder the murderers who murdered the murderers?  You know, so their families can have peace.  And then who's gonna murder the murderers who murdered the murderers who murdered the first murderers?  Who gets to decide which murders are legit and just and bringing peace to families? And how quickly can we expedite all of this?  Eventually...if we just keep murdering...we'll run out if murderers?  Oh wait...that won't work.  So, some murderers get to live, obviously, but, how far down the chain? 

 

👍

 

[Robed Mystic]

1 hour ago, Blessed2 said:

 

Sometimes thoughts come up that certain people are "hopeless cases". 

 

But I don't want to think that of others, cause it really just curve balls and bites you in the ass. If there really is someone who is a hopeless cause, it automatically holds the possibility that you could also be a hopeless case.

 

I'd go with grace-against-all-seeming-odds here. Mad love, mad devotion. I mean we probably both agree that God is infinite.

 

 

I wonder if anything can per se be removed like that. I mean it sounds logical and rational, but it's not like logic and rationality hasn't ever failed us. 😂

 

Does death really do anything? Like how physical energy cannot be destroyed.

 

The thought that some people could be just waste of space is also a curveball and comes back in form of you could be a waste of space.

 

And again, God is infinite, yes? Then where does this shortage of healing / well-being (rehabilitation) come from? Is there not enough in infinity, even for hopeless cases?

 

It's a point well taken.   I wouldn't make the leap though, that just because some individuals might be hopeless when it comes to rehabilitation, that this automatically could reflect back on yourself.   But I understand where the thought of this could be derived.   After all, if we are one, then in a sense you are no different than those appearing external to you.  But from another vantage point, we can also say that  oneness has been divided, and that here, in duality, differences can and must exist.   Differences, vast ones, may exist between you and these individuals in both mind and spirit.   But I agree- I would love to hold that mindset that all of mankind can be saved.  But unfortunately my direct experience has proven otherwise.    And with these individuals, I'm not sure that keeping them locked up for decades is beneficial.   Analyzing and enumerating which individuals are and aren't salvageable, however, may seem like a daunting task - but in truth it may not be that difficult to decipher when spending any amount of time with them.  So resources need to be invested into therapy to determine this.  If hope is possible- hope should be provided.  I'm all for that.  But when it is deemed that these individuals will not be able to coexist in society with others - then the decision should be clear.

Edited April 2 by Robed Mystic

[Blessed2]

36 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

 I wouldn't make the leap though, that just because some individuals might be hopeless when it comes to rehabilitation, that this automatically could reflect back on yourself.

 

I'd say it very much does reflect back. It reflects perfectly and instantly. So much so that it cannot really be even called "reflection". Thoughts about 'others' are thoughts about 'you'. "Other person" is a projection of what you think you are. You don't call a pine tree "other person", but you call a human "other person", cause you think you're a human and not a pine tree.

 

Whatever you think is or could be true about others, is automatically what you think could be true about you. The word "could" is very important here. It might not be that you think it is true about you, but could be true. For example, you might think that someone else is guilty of something, but you are not. Yet there is the underlying belief that you too could be guilty in some situation. And that right there is something that a case could be made to call it simply "hell". There is no more innocence, there is no freedom or love.

 

Similarly, when there is a belief that someone could be a hopeless case, there is no more grace. There truly is hopelessness.

 

Brings in mind how lots of religious folk say that god is omnipotent etc, yet there is still great fear of "the enemy", satan. As if the will and power of an omnipotent god could be thwarted, and his plan could be in doubt. That is not omnipotence. Similarly, that there is guilt and hopelessness is not innocence, grace or infinity.

 

If you talk about spirit and infinity and god and love, make it make sense!

 

[Phil]

@Blessed2

Well said. 

[Blessed2]

Welp, there was a school shooting today in Finland. A 12 year old shot and killed another 12 year old. And wounded 2 more.

 

The interesting thing here is that the kid won't be going to prison, cause of the young age.

 

 

[Phil]

17 hours ago, Robed Mystic said:

It's a point well taken.   I wouldn't make the leap though, that just because some individuals might be hopeless when it comes to rehabilitation, that this automatically could reflect back on yourself.   But I understand where the thought of this could be derived.   After all, if we are one, then in a sense you are no different than those appearing external to you.  But from another vantage point, we can also say that  oneness has been divided, and that here, in duality, differences can and must exist. 

Consciousness is infinite. Division is a belief rooted in the illusory misidentification as a self separate of consciousness, ‘the knower’ (which knows there is division, separation, individuals). 

 

17 hours ago, Robed Mystic said:

 Differences, vast ones, may exist between you and these individuals in both mind and spirit.   But I agree- I would love to hold that mindset that all of mankind can be saved.  But unfortunately my direct experience has proven otherwise.    And with these individuals, I'm not sure that keeping them locked up for decades is beneficial.   Analyzing and enumerating which individuals are and aren't salvageable, however, may seem like a daunting task - but in truth it may not be that difficult to decipher when spending any amount of time with them.  So resources need to be invested into therapy to determine this.  If hope is possible- hope should be provided.  I'm all for that.  But when it is deemed that these individuals will not be able to coexist in society with others - then the decision should be clear.

Therein, individuals & mankind are also beliefs, based on separation, based on misidentification. There are no individuals or therein mankind, which could be saved. This is a gross egocentric misunderstanding of what saved or awakening is. 

 

Being saved, or redemption, refers to falsity (sin, error, evil, shame, etc) believed… being dispelled. Redemption is not an action, a becoming, transcending or ascension, etc of an individual. 

 

The delusion inherent in the interpretations shared is not unrelated to school shootings, nor cancer, autism or Alzheimer’s as well, or any of the inner or outer conflicts apparent. 

 

Redemption is a restoration of integrity precisely via unfettering the very beliefs shared. 

[Kevin]

2 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

Welp, there was a school shooting today in Finland. A 12 year old shot and killed another 12 year old. And wounded 2 more.

 

The interesting thing here is that the kid won't be going to prison, cause of the young age.

 

 

Really? That’s wild where’d you here that there will be no jail?

[Blessed2]

1 hour ago, Kevin said:

Really? That’s wild where’d you here that there will be no jail?

 

The minimum age of criminal liability is 15yrs here.

 

[Kevin]

17 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

The minimum age of criminal liability is 15yrs here.

 

That’s wild.

[Reborn2]

13 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

Welp, there was a school shooting today in Finland. A 12 year old shot and killed another 12 year old. And wounded 2 more.

 

The interesting thing here is that the kid won't be going to prison, cause of the young age.

 

 

Yeah, the so called happiest country on Earth but only statistically on paper, the low population size and very low density relative to the country's size and cold depressing weather coupled together makes individual cases like these more likely to happen, it's not so surprising

 

There was another case like that of an isolated guy who was even a nazi symphatizer

 

But I think kids who commit crimes, especially severe crimes like these should be going to a jail-like institutions for minors for example, there's just no excuse for killing someone, it wouldn't even occur to a normal kid to shoot at someone never mind killing them, there has to be something seriously wrong with you if you do that no matter what your age is