How should we deal with criminals?

[A Tim]

8 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

What's me precisely?  

The one who could be rehabilitated, as opposed to all the "others," I believe.

[Phil]

7 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

What's me precisely?  

 

14 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

the individual is better off simply not on the planet.  beyond all rehabilitation and are just pure evil.  

 

[Robed Mystic]

2 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

The assumption about "the worst of the worst" is pure concept, doesn't mean shit.  Same with "power". 

I'm talking about the death row ones so it goes beyond just violent criminals but it's in that arena.  Murderers and rapists.

Edited April 1 by Robed Mystic

[Jonas Long]

1 minute ago, Robed Mystic said:

I'm talking about the death row ones so it goes beyond just violent criminals but it's in that arena.  Murderers and rapists.

There aren't any murderers or rapists, really.  Same options. 

[Robed Mystic]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

 

 

You have no soul sir.  Truly.  I'm not trying to be mean here but get a life. I haven't been on here for over a month and I make a single post and you almost immediately come back with a sort of sick response.  I'm not sure whether to hug you or hit you honestly.   Or perhaps I should just shake my head in disbelief.  Either way - I love you bud.

[Robed Mystic]

5 minutes ago, A Tim said:

The one who could be rehabilitated, as opposed to all the "others," I believe.

Let's be optimists 😀

[Robed Mystic]

3 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

There aren't any murderers or rapists, really.  Same options. 

There aren't?  Ok.

[Phil]

5 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

You have no soul sir.  Truly. 

Indeed. 

 

5 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

I'm not trying to be mean here but get a life.

Ignorance. 

 

5 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

I haven't been on here for over a month and I make a single post and you almost immediately come back with a sort of sick response.

23 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

Hmm...in most cases I would agree but there are situations where the individual is better off simply not on the planet.  They are beyond all rehabilitation and are just pure evil.  You can't just keep shifting them around to different prisons - its better to just remove them and then save space for those that can be rehabilitated.

They’re your words. You’re literally talking about yourself in ignorance and believing your words are someone else’s sick response. 🤷‍♂️ 

 

5 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

I'm not sure whether to hug you or hit you honestly.   Or perhaps I should just shake my head in disbelief.  Either way - I love you bud.

Simply take your own advice. 

[Jonas Long]

Every person in prison is a product of their environment.  The only real solution is to change that environment going forward. 

[Robed Mystic]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

. 

 

They’re your words. You’re literally talking about yourself in ignorance. 

 

 

I've been playing with AI all day and you can see my dialogue posted on Actualized.org, so I'm in an AI kind of mood.

My comments about the death penalty could indeed be me talking about myself in ignorance- but it could also be me trying to come up with positive, meaningful solutions to the problem of the over crowded prison system due to repeat offenders.  This is a problem that not only crowds our system but also creates the false ideology that certain murderers can be properly rehabilitated.   In truth, not all can be saved.

Edited April 1 by Robed Mystic

[Kevin]

I don’t view prisons as a place for rehabilitation. I think prisons are to hold people like this so the rest of the population doesn’t have to deal with them.

https://en.as.com/latest_news/where-is-brian-cohee-now-and-who-was-his-murder-victim-warren-barnes-n/?outputType=amp

[Jonas Long]

1 minute ago, Robed Mystic said:

I've been playing with AI all day and you can see my dialogue posted on Actualized.org, so I'm in an AI kind of mood.

My comments about the death penalty could indeed be me talking about myself in ignorance- but it could also be me trying to come up with positive, meaningful solutions to the problem of the over crowded prison system due to repeat offenders.  This is a problem that not only crowds our system but also creates the false ideology that certain murderers can be properly rehabilitated.   In truth, not all can be saved.

Have you suggested one positive meaningful solution yet?  Did I miss it?

[A Tim]

11 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

Let's be optimists 😀

😁

[Robed Mystic]

3 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Have you suggested one positive meaningful solution yet?  Did I miss it?

You did miss it.  I said they can be executed.   

[Jonas Long]

3 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

You did miss it.  I said they can be executed.   

How is that "positive" "meaningful" or different from what there is now? 

[Robed Mystic]

7 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

How is that "positive" "meaningful" or different from what there is now? 

You raise an excellent point.

Positive, of course, is relative to negative.   Thus - it really depends on context.  So let's set the context. The context here is over crowded prison systems which ultimately cause problems not only with the system but also for the economy.   It could cause tax increases and many other factors.   But the biggest positive, I feel,  is for the families of those affected by the killing or the crime itself.  For those families, justice is not served until the individual that took away their loved one is put to death.   

Yes - it does exist now but the process can be expedited and enhanced, thus making more room in the prison system and also bringing quicker peace to more families. 

 

Edited April 1 by Robed Mystic

[Jonas Long]

3 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

You raise an excellent point.

Positive, of course, is relative to negative.   Thus - it really depends on context.  So let's set the context. The context here is over crowded prison systems which ultimately cause problems not only with the system but also for the economy.   It could cause tax increases and many other factors.   But the biggest positive, I feel,  is for the families of those affected by the killing or the crime itself.  For those families, justice is not served until the individual that took away their loved one is put to death.   

Yes - it does exist now but the process can be expedited and enhanced, thus making more room in the prison system and also bringing quicker peace to more families. 

 

So, it's not really your idea, is it?  Your idea is basically "do what we already have but quicker".   How long will the surplus of "room in the prison system" last before it fills right back up in your scenario do you think?  Have you ever heard of a case where someone was on death row wrongfully and released decades later when the evidence of their innocence came to light? Would overlooking these cases be a worthwhile casualty in your version?  

[Jonas Long]

Who's gonna murder the murderers who murdered the murderers?  You know, so their families can have peace.  And then who's gonna murder the murderers who murdered the murderers who murdered the first murderers?  Who gets to decide which murders are legit and just and bringing peace to families? And how quickly can we expedite all of this?  Eventually...if we just keep murdering...we'll run out if murderers?  Oh wait...that won't work.  So, some murderers get to live, obviously, but, how far down the chain? 

[Robed Mystic]

3 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

So, it's not really your idea, is it?  Your idea is basically "do what we already have but quicker".   How long will the surplus of "room in the prison system" last before it fills right back up in your scenario do you think?  Have you ever heard of a case where someone was on death row wrongfully and released decades later when the evidence of their innocence came to light? Would overlooking these cases be a worthwhile casualty in your version?  

That's a lot of questions.  I could address them one by one - or I could completely ignore them.   I guess the choice is mine and how lazy I want to be on a given day.  But I do want to thank you for engaging with me in this elegant dialogue.  Which, if we  strip away all bias, can yield some positive results.

Let me address the question of false positives first.  

Yea, false positives are an unfortunate possibility.   We must strive in the judicial system to try to cut those types of errors off at the head - but statistically we know that this isn't possible.   So - the question comes to bear - is this just an error that can be written off?  For now - yes.  But in the future we should be able to narrow our false positives down to almost zero.  And that should be our goal. 

 

[Orb]

It seems to me that no matter how "advanced" our civilization becomes, there will always be murderers and thieves. Just my opinion. I think the quality of life for the average person will go up, but there will always be some criminals.