How should we deal with criminals?

[Blessed2]

How do you prefer we would deal with people who break the law?

 

There's kids who steal some candy, there's adults who rob stores, there's drug dealers, there's tax evading rich folks, and there's serial murderers, rapists and other violent criminals.

 

We all probably agree that these actions should be prevented and these criminals should be detained by the police, but what after that?

 

Should we punish them? Or should we focus on rehabilitation, healing and helping them?

 

If rehab, healing and helping, how? What would that look like for a murderer, robber, drug dealer?

 

If you'd be the president of the entire world and had all power, what would you do with criminals?

 

If you were / are a criminal, how would you like to be treated, punished and/or helped?

 

Edited February 2 by Blessed2

[Phil]

I suggest we make laws for This, rather than against This. Pretty much the same as what’s transpired with marijuana and is underway for psychedelics. 

 

39 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

If you'd be the president of the entire world and had all power, what would you do with criminals?

Abolish criminalism. 

 

Great topic btw!

[Jonas Long]

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

I suggest we make laws for This, rather than against This. Pretty much the same as what’s transpired with marijuana and is underway for psychedelics. 

 

Abolish criminalism. 

 

Great topic btw!

Does a law for things oblige everyone to do those things?  I don't understand.  Seems like a "bad idea".

[Jonas Long]

First off abolish for-profit prisons.  

A much more rigorous training process and physical requirements for law enforcement(like, cmon, fat cops?, so out of shape they have no recourse but to use their guns at the drop of a hat)

And yes, a focus of rehabilitation.  Programs in place for people returning to society. 

Edited February 2 by Jonas Long

[Phil]

@Jonas Long 

For This. Like with marijuana. There were laws against, now there are laws for. 

[Jonas Long]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

@Jonas Long 

For This. Like with marijuana. There were laws against, now there are laws for. 

There are no longer laws against...a law for sounds like everyone being required to use cannabis.

[Blessed2]

12 minutes ago, Phil said:

I suggest we make laws for This, rather than against This. Pretty much the same as what’s transpired with marijuana and is underway for psychedelics. 

 

I'm kinda, to a degree, "with you". But still... A bad trip / psychosis is not fun. I'd legalize psychedelics, but only in terms of psychedelic therapy. Though make it free/cheap and easily available for everyone.

 

 

I find it quite insane how alcohol is legal & sold pretty much in every corner. Almost as if our President was Pablo Escobar, but alcohol rather than cocaine. Seen Narcos on Netflix?

 

There could be much less hurtful substances. It's nuts how we collectively kind of just assume all "substances" are bad and criminal, but not alcohol and nicotine. Even though those are about as bad as coke or amphetamine. Maybe even worse!

 

22 minutes ago, Phil said:

Abolish criminalism. 

 

So if/when someone robs a bank or murders someone... No prison?

 

[Jonas Long]

There are things that should be decriminalized... but the lack of a law against something doesn't amount to a law for it.  Sounds like youre trying way too hard to put a "positive" spin on things....so, what, a law for not murder?  What exactly is the difference besides semantics? 

[Blessed2]

15 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

First off abolish for-profit prisons.  

 

Yup. I agree.

 

18 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

A much more rigorous training process and physical requirements for law enforcement(like, cmon, fat cops?, so out of shape they have no recourse but to use their guns at the drop of a hat)

 

Hmm. Maybe.

 

Some folk go even as far as to replace the police force with social workers. That's interesting. Not sure how that would work with organized crime though.

 

21 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

And yes, a focus of rehabilitation.  Programs in place for people returning to society. 

 

What would that rehabilitation look like in your society?

 

[Jonas Long]

1 minute ago, Blessed2 said:

 

Yup. I agree.

 

 

Hmm. Maybe.

 

Some folk go even as far as to replace the police force with social workers. That's interesting. Not sure how that would work with organized crime though.

 

 

What would that rehabilitation look like in your society?

 

I think law enforcement individuals should basically be like ninjas, and able to handle nearly every situation without resorting to guns at all.  And if possible I think guns should be replaced with some type of temporarily incapacitating agent.  

Rehabilitation would be tailor fitted to the offense committed.  That's where we can create a fuck ton of jobs for social workers.  And how great would it be if the "ex cons" had the immediate opportunity of being one themselves as a job upon reentering society? 

[Blessed2]

6 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

And if possible I think guns should be replaced with some type of temporarily incapacitating agent.  

 

Those do already exist, though aren't widely used it seems. Might be cause the criminals have lethal weapons so the police gotta have them too?

 

Have you seen Narcos? Would love to hear your thoughts about it. Such a thought-provoking show.

 

10 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Rehabilitation would be tailor fitted to the offense committed. 

 

What rehab would you give to:

 

1. A kid stealing candy

2. A young adult dealing drugs

3. Businessman evading taxes

4. A serial paedophile rapist-murderer?

 

[Phil]

@Jonas Long

For as in pro-marijuana, in acknowledgment positivity is the default, and all the spinning and efforting is resistance, or is in the against-ness. 

 

32 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

I find it quite insane how alcohol is legal & sold pretty much in every corner. Almost as if our President was Pablo Escobar, but alcohol rather than cocaine. Seen Narcos on Netflix?

 

There could be much less hurtful substances. It's nuts how we collectively kind of just assume all "substances" are bad and criminal, but not alcohol and nicotine. Even though those are about as bad as coke or amphetamine. Maybe even worse!

There could be pro-alcohol laws in favor of & in alignment with This. 

Yes. It was great! 

 

32 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

So if/when someone robs a bank or murders someone... No prison?

Yeah. No prison. 

 

[Blessed2]

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

There could be pro-alcohol laws in favor & in alignment with This. 

 

What would those laws look like?

 

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

Yeah. No prison. 

 

Not even a social worker visiting once a week for two months?

 

Nothing?

 

If you'd be the president of the world and I'd murder someone, there wouldn't even be an investigation as to who did it?

 

[Jonas Long]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Jonas Long

For as in pro-marijuana, in acknowledgment positivity is the default, and all the spinning and efforting is resistance, or is in 

 

Whatever makes you happy I guess.  I think not having laws "against" things would be sufficient, personally.

[Jonas Long]

10 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

Those do already exist, though aren't widely used it seems. Might be cause the criminals have lethal weapons so the police gotta have them too?

 

Have you seen Narcos? Would love to hear your thoughts about it. Such a thought-provoking show.

 

 

What rehab would you give to:

 

1. A kid stealing candy

2. A young adult dealing drugs

3. Businessman evading taxes

4. A serial paedophile rapist-murderer?

 

Having deadly weapons just because "they" do amounts to an eye for an eye.  If there were the option to incapacitate there would literally be no advantage to deadly weapons against other deadly weapons other than revenge/tit for tat.  The law enforcer doesn't need to stoop to the level of the criminal.  

 

I've not seen narcos.

 

And I'm not personally qualified to prescribe what those particular treatments would be.  You'd have to ask people with those type of skills.  

[Reena]

I think we need to abolish prison and focus on how to try improve the life of a criminal. Much of the problems are because of a lack of empathy. 

[Mandy]

In order to support a prison system, first you gotta believe that there are victims and perpetrators, then you need to believe that blame is a fixed state of right or wrong, not an emotion.

 

The sentencing is for everyone.

[Phil]

1 minute ago, Blessed2 said:

What would those laws look like?

Yesterday I talked with an FBI Investigator for the better part of the day and he was talking about how people murder, kidnap, abuse kids & shoot up schools for no real reason. That some thing just snaps and they do some thing regular people wouldn’t do, and that some times they’re just born that way. He’d been in the force for a while and the convo was downright fascinating but I didn’t quite agree with the overall synopsis.

 

So a pro-alcohol law would probably look like any other Act but maybe a law which requires the educational aspects start really young. We could call it the Awareness And Alcohol Act. The Four Act for short, what with the four A’s. It’d sound like what it is, an Act that is for, as in pro-alcohol, but which puts awareness first. The four A’s might even piggy back or compliment AAA, like a revival. Like Spinal Tap & 11 basically.

 

It could be rolled out in elementary schools and cover first and foremost what each kid likes, loves, wants & is interested in. It could be different for each grade. In 1st grade maybe they’re just printing pictures of things & putting them all together. The Act wouldn’t bind them to any of it of course, just support and encourage it. 

 

There could be fun & engaging games baked in which cover the pitfalls & challenges, common justifications, rationalizations & emotions experienced as it relates to alcohol and each unique collage they made.

 

A lot of that wouldn’t resonate with kids obviously. Probably the younger they are the more it’d feel off or scary. Those discordant aspects could be explained alongside the aspects of Ourself, as to why what feels off relative to what the kids want. 

 

There could even be case studies in simple story form. Like short episodes of Family Guy just educational. Still high quality animation & humor though maybe without a Quagmire. A fun interactive game might be videos which pause and after seeing the character & their life you have to ‘guess the justification or rationalization’ he’s most likely going to go with.  A multiple choice ‘guess the accurate statistic’ game might be a fun way to really connect the dots & land the reality of the current situation in the bigger picture. 

 

Then in that light they could talk about love at home. Like if it’s small or big. Free or earned. Maybe the ways it’s shared & ways to share it, connecting that to what’s been covered so far. 

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Blessed2 said:

Not even a social worker visiting once a week for two months?

Behind locked doors still, supported 10 fold what the average person experiences outside of prison now, and 24/7, just not in a prison. Something more based on reality. 

(Prison: A building in which people are legally held as a punishment for a crime they have committed or while awaiting trial.)

 

1 hour ago, Blessed2 said:

Nothing?

Yeah, 24/7.

 

1 hour ago, Blessed2 said:

If you'd be the president of the world and I'd murder someone, there wouldn't even be an investigation as to who did it?

There would still be investigation, more of it & bigger & bigger picture. 😅 Maybe The Act would have media aspects. Maybe to start, 10% of the on air time is required to be community healing & well-being oriented rather than sensationalism. It could cover where the resources or centers are, air real families at both ends of a murder, talking together, sharing the reality of it. Maybe shows about deescalation, shining awareness on trauma as a community. If we wanted to go straight up Hitler with it, the Act could even require everyone to participate in some way. 

[Blessed2]

@Phil Awesome. That's some creative ideas.

 

This made me inspired to make an another thread...