Uncomfortable feelings around women

[Jonas Long]

@Mandy screw being "above judgement" bs needs to be called out so it doesn't always run amok and go unchallenged, other people can help us see through a scam we are too close to sometimes.  The "judgment is untenelable" talking point is like, the BEST tool in the charlatans tool box, it gives them carte Blanche!

[Phil]

20 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said:

Taking peoples money is not an interpretation you slippery shit.  It is a very clearly defined and objective in our reality.  You ripped kids off.  That may be an interpretation but it's one a lot can agree on.

If you go online and request the service of having your lawn cut for example, they aren’t ‘taking money from you’, you’re paying them for the service they offered and you requested. 

8 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said:

@Phil I bet you'd be keen on making use of the idea of "separate selves" if one of those "separate selves" harmed you or someone you love...that nondual mysticism would drop away REAL fast, don't pretend you'd be all "oh its really me who hurt me or my loved one"

The pretending / belief is that there are separate selves. This belief is the root of suffering and can be inspected & dispelled, which is referred to as awakening, enlightenment or liberation.

 

The belief in separate selves is fundamentally based on the materialist paradigm or simply put, that there is matter, and therein separation such as separate objects and selves. Albeit widespread & currently prevailing, this is a collective belief, and is what conditioning & all of the suffering therein is, or derives from. It’s the fundamental misunderstanding which is the root of all harming, all inner suffering, and all outer conflict such as war etc. 

5 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said:

@Phil whyd you give me a "warning"? Wasn't that just your interpretation of me insulting "you" who isn't even a "separate self" anway? Are you "othering" me??

Name calling is prohibited in the guidelines. 

 

[Jonas Long]

@Phil but the "guidelines" are a concept...so are "insults" and you just made an interpretation....whatever, I said my piece, I'm basically done here.

[Jonas Long]

@Phil leave it to a charlatan to pick and choose where they apply nonduality, wiggle out of every confrontation with semantics and not even addressing the tough points.  I'm done with you man.  Even if more people request me coming here again I'm not gonna, you think giving me a "warning" from you means a thing to me? Lol

[Mandy]

3 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said:

 The "judgment is untenelable" talking point is like, the BEST tool in the charlatans tool box, it gives them carte Blanche!

Ever experienced real intuition, knowing something you have no business in knowing but know anyway? As a woman, trained by a woman scared of men, spent most of my life scared of men. It's not much different living life suspecting every man, as suspecting every spiritual teacher. It sucks. It sucks the life out of you, and it's actually very demeaning to your own self and your own intuition. It cuts you off from hearing it which ironically makes you inherently unsafe. The woman who taught me to be afraid of men had my own best interests in my mind. She was someone I could really trust. Now no need to trust anyone at all. No need to feel unsafe either. 

 

[Jonas Long]

4 minutes ago, Mandy said:

Ever experienced real intuition, knowing something you have no business in knowing but know anyway? As a woman, trained by a woman scared of men, spent most of my life scared of men. It's not much different living life suspecting every man, as suspecting every spiritual teacher. It sucks. It sucks the life out of you, and it's actually very demeaning to your own self and your own intuition. It cuts you off from hearing it which ironically makes you inherently unsafe. The woman who taught me to be afraid of men had my own best interests in my mind. She was someone I could really trust. Now no need to trust anyone at all. No need to feel unsafe either. 

 

Alright, but if you see a clearly sketchy guy you are going to do what you can to protect yourself, obviously.  I'm not suspicious of every spiritual teacher, I have one in my real life.  I just don't ignore red flags.  I trust my intuition.  Yes, you need to walk a line with it, it requires a but of nuanced thinking(I guess, it doesn't really seem THAT complex to.me honestly) 

[Mandy]

@Lester Retsel Intuition requires a stepping aside. Like buying a piece of total junk at a yard sale in the middle of a huge declutter/ life simplification not knowing why and getting it home and being like, oh damn, I really wanted that. Or walking down some random lonely road on impulse because somehow you know that what you wanted to find is down there, but you don't know until you see it. To logic in the moment it seems like utter and complete lunacy. But what you realize is it's always leading you to what you want. You realize you know exactly where that is, at the same time without knowing at all, without having to make it happen, without having to strategically secure anything, and especially without having to avoid what you don't want. We don't know what's coming next. And we don't have anything to protect. That we do, is charlatanism. 

 

charlatan (n.)

"one who pretends to knowledge, skill, importance, etc.," 1610s, from French charlatan "mountebank, babbler" (16c.), from Italian ciarlatano "a quack," from ciarlare "to prate, babble," from ciarla "chat, prattle," perhaps imitative of ducks' quacking. Related: Charlatanical.

 

The only charlatan worthy of concern is in our own skulls. And even then, it's so damn sneaky, it's not even located there. 

[Jonas Long]

@Mandy

18 minutes ago, Mandy said:

Ever experienced real intuition, knowing something you have no business in knowing but know anyway? As a woman, trained by a woman scared of men, spent most of my life scared of men. It's not much different living life suspecting every man, as suspecting every spiritual teacher. It sucks. It sucks the life out of you, and it's actually very demeaning to your own self and your own intuition. It cuts you off from hearing it which ironically makes you inherently unsafe. The woman who taught me to be afraid of men had my own best interests in my mind. She was someone I could really trust. Now no need to trust anyone at all. No need to feel unsafe either. 

 

1 in 4 women will.be sexualy assaulted in their life, so, yes, it's wise to be aware of this, be aware that there are grifters out there, because of course there are, whether this boils.down to en extension of your self and your own experience and all that is beside the point, what I keep getting here is a bunch of side stepping that is really besides the very clear point I'm making.  But you obviously don't want to hear it, or you have but want to push it aside, now that I've said what I came here to say it's really no concern of.mine how you take it, but notice that you seem to.be scrambling and using all this jargon and everything to justify maintaining your position.  You seem to.have an attachment to this forum....maybe you should ask yourself why that is(see, now I did what you've been doing, I turned it around on you;))

[Blessed2]

4 hours ago, Lester Retsel said:

@Phil whatever "nahm" sounds like a bunch of semantics to me.  I do trust my sense of people, I am a fairly intuitive person, and the sense I get very clearly from you is of a shifty eyed charlatan, and it seems I'm not the only one... we can't all be "projecting'...if enough people are seeing the same dirt on your screen, you gotta wonder if it's really them and not you, at some point, or don't, i have no investment here.   

 

 

I sometimes wonder too, that is Phil a scammer or just crazy or something. He has a peculiar way of speaking and doing some things.

 

Though I will say that I have shared things privately with him that he could have 100% used for selfish or hurtful ends. I have been totally vulnerable. But he has always been very understanding and friendly, safe.

[Jonas Long]

@Mandy one more thing, about the pottery, maybe learn to think in a more nuanced way, it's one thing to have a pot like that, it's a TOTALLY other thing to adopt a NAME for yourself that clearly belongs to a culture that is not yours and doing it so that people will think you are something you want to be perceived as ie "spiritual" maybe think about about difference here, because it is actually an important distinction that is lost on a lit of westerners.  It's like white rich kids adopting black culture to seem cool, its actually totally offensive because of the legacy and imbalance in this country.  These are actually the type of things it's important to educate yourself about and not gloss over.

[Kevin]

39 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said:

@Mandy one more thing, about the pottery, maybe learn to think in a more nuanced way, it's one thing to have a pot like that, it's a TOTALLY other thing to adopt a NAME for yourself that clearly belongs to a culture that is not yours and doing it so that people will think you are something you want to be perceived as ie "spiritual" maybe think about about difference here, because it is actually an important distinction that is lost on a lit of westerners.  It's like white rich kids adopting black culture to seem cool, its actually totally offensive because of the legacy and imbalance in this country.  These are actually the type of things it's important to educate yourself about and not gloss over.

You probably can’t stand adyashanti

[Jonas Long]

2 hours ago, Kevin said:

You probably can’t stand adyashanti

Don't know of them

[Mandy]

@Lester Retsel Between your profile picture and the thinking more nuanced suggestion, this is kinda trippy in that it's very Leo-esque. 😂

 

About "jargon"... we all repeat words and phrases we've heard and often start to talk like the people we listen to and are around. There are a lot of words and connotations that are born out of body identification, ie, believing in separate selves, ie, believing that we are a body mind and separate from the world, ie the materialist paradigm. Then there are words and ways of using words that are born out of describing what is in a whole new way. It's well worth learning them and questioning what they point to recognizing in oneself rather than immediately judging them as weird or off, or culty. It's not about the words, the people using the words, but how they feel. 

 

Again, my point is, focus on what you want. If you drive in your car and fixate on the thing you really don't want to hit, your car starts to go toward it. You gotta focus on where you want to go. As long as you do that you won't be caught in anyone's web or duped, or stuck criticizing people instead of doing what you really want to do. 

 

 

 

 

[Phil]

20 hours ago, Lester Retsel said:

I'm not suspicious of every spiritual teacher, I have one in my real life. 

The comparison you’re making is between direct experience with that teacher and an idea you have of Phil. We’ve never actually met & talked. If we did, at least then you could compare the direct experiences. You might be pleasantly surprised to find your idea and the direct experience didn’t match up, and assuming the teacher you work with is awake so to speak, you’d likely find we’re saying the same thing just different ways.

[Jonas Long]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

The comparison you’re making is between direct experience with that teacher and an idea you have of Phil. We’ve never actually met & talked. If we did, at least then you could compare the direct experiences. You might be pleasantly surprised to find your idea and the direct experience didn’t match up, and assuming the teacher you work with is awake so to speak, you’d likely find we’re saying the same thing just different ways.

No way you charge criminal amounts of money for so called direct experience with you.  

[Phil]

6 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said:

No way you charge criminal amounts of money for so called direct experience with you.  

More of the same. I’m not really suggesting you book a session. I’m pointing out you’re not comparing direct experience but your idea of an experience which you haven’t actually experienced. 

[Jonas Long]

@Mandy it's a david bowie reference, I'm holding the Golden Dawn book and the bubble above my head says "quicksand", get it?

[Jonas Long]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

More of the same. 

Yes. I know. Your type are a dime a dozen.

[Jonas Long]

@Phil

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

More of the same. 

Literally all you do is repeat the same tired rhetoric of nondual babble.

[Jonas Long]

@Mandy yeah probably if nobody vocally objected to Hitler things would've worked out eventually