What's With this Law of Attraction stuff?

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

@Phil errrrrr… dude

 

Thanks for the greatest hits compilation, totally not weird at all… no sirree!
 

While I appreciate the effort I don’t want to waste any more of your time, so if I can fall back on my earlier comment that I find you tedious and obtuse, just use that as a general benchmark to gauge how much I would want to pursue an activity that might end up with me being more like you - my wife would never stand for it I'm afraid!

 

i’ll tell you what though, if you fancy a proper chat about it then you could come be a guest on one of my YouTube talkshows. Im sure we could have a right chinwag, what say you?

Edited May 28, 2022 by Adeptus Psychonautica

[Phil]

 

@Adeptus Psychonautica

Did you even read it?

Yes I’d love to, thanks. 

[Phil]

@Adeptus Psychonautica

2 hours ago, Mandy said:

what's your take on all of what Nissargadatta and Ramana, Rupert Spira teach, nonduality, etc?

Love to talk about this. 

[WhiteOwl]

18 hours ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

 

Sure, and I think its clear that you are more the former rather than the latter, but its also clear that some people are espousing the latter with talk of changing reality, manifesting and magic, and even you are muddying the water with inane ramblings about immutable forces. If none of that is what You are referring to within LoA then simply state exactly what you think LoA is - its not difficult. As I said right at the beginning then I would imagine that once we strip away all the bullshit then we are going to be left with a fairly mundane occurrence which occurs with or without LoA and dreamboards.
 

 

Go and drop your kids blindfolded in the middle of a busy highway and put that to the test. Material "things" are not illusory, every action you take confirms that you believe this even if you dance around it with metaphysical psychobabble. The "reality war" is the direct experience that physical reality will win EVERY TIME over statements like "there isn't a bus" - this is the brutal facts of reality. The bus will smash your body into pieces and your life as a human being will cease, feel free to prove me wrong.  

Mate, nobody is trying to say that nothing will happen if you put people in front of a bus, that's not whats meant with "there isn't a bus".. you know this cmon. No need to argue stuff like that 😄

I am trying to find a brilliant alan watts lecture where he talks about a discussion about a philosopher who want's to continue to argue / do thought experiments / conceptualizations when talking about the meaning of life because he thinks that's all that can be done. No discussion or words read will satisfy you or give you any answer, it should be obvious by now. We are just exchanging words here, nothing is happening. 

 

And to your statement that people here fail to prove LoA (remember you can call it something else, its not the word).. its an impossible task, what are you asking for other than people telling you what we are saying.. you won't ever know something until you try it.. i am a complete "normal" guy, and i have become more and more aware of how my feelings influence my day to day living (what i attract and experience). I am not stating this to make you believe it, like i want you to have the same religion as me, i really don't care, it's only because its incredible.

we still manifest in this human experience, so you can always dismiss it because the things that happen were already possible to begin with. Like the perfect job popping up all of a sudden after a big change in energy towards it, that happened for me (again, my way of explaining, don't get hung up). I could reject that as completely coincidental, but i know what happened before it, and also that it didn't happen before. And when you start to see this more and more, and also start to realize why some things are not happening, you start to sense that there is something to all this stuff..

 

thanks for putting yourself out there so much, it's great for everyone i think to see all perspectives. 

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by WhiteOwl

[WhiteOwl]

3 hours ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

@Phil errrrrr… dude

 

Thanks for the greatest hits compilation, totally not weird at all… no sirree!
 

While I appreciate the effort I don’t want to waste any more of your time, so if I can fall back on my earlier comment that I find you tedious and obtuse, just use that as a general benchmark to gauge how much I would want to pursue an activity, that might end up with me being more like you - my wife would never stand for it im afraid!

 

i’ll tell you what though, if you fancy a proper chat about it then you could come be a guest on one of my YouTube talkshows. Im sure we could have a right chinwag, what say you?

sometimes the worst teacher is the best teacher someone told me earlier in this forum.. thanks adeptus, no joke.

 

reading phils comment was fucking brilliant, not trying to fanboy here. i read the wall of text and it was so obvious, that that is YOU, all of it, not the people you talk about, so brilliant 😂 spot on.. don't you see that? 

 

and on the other hand you go into personal attacks with that comment, which is fine, but don't think you are showcasing yourself either in a way that makes people want to be more like you (to use your own words).. not me at least ❤️

 

great thread!

Edited May 28, 2022 by WhiteOwl

[Aware Wolf]

2 hours ago, WhiteOwl said:

Mate, nobody is trying to say that nothing will happen if you put people in front of a bus, that's not whats meant with "there isn't a bus".. you know this cmon. No need to argue stuff like that 😄

 

Well your mileage may vary. But I run into Mind Only types quite bit. The everything is illusion crowd. "There is no self" gang. Everything arises from our own consciousness! "Bus" is just a thought!

 

There's Leo, Connor Murphy, Arianna, etc. -- there's a ton of people on YouTube. I believe Leo had a scandal after someone killed themselves after receiving these type of teachings which reject duality or a common reality. 

 

You're right there shouldn't be a need to argue this. One of the signs of a cult is opposing critical thinking. There indeed is a bus and there is covid -- but how many people rejected vaccines because of delusion?

 

2 hours ago, WhiteOwl said:

 

And to your statement that people here fail to prove LoA (remember you can call it something else, its not the word).. its an impossible task, what are you asking for other than people telling you what we are saying.. you won't ever know something until you try it.. i am a complete "normal" guy, and i have become more and more aware of how my feelings influence my day to day living (what i attract and experience). I am not stating this to make you believe it, like i want you to have the same religion as me, i really don't care, it's only because its incredible.

we still manifest in this human experience, so you can always dismiss it because the things that happen were already possible to begin with. Like the perfect job popping up all of a sudden after a big change in energy towards it, that happened for me (again, my way of explaining, don't get hung up). I could reject that as completely coincidental, but i know what happened before it, and also that it didn't happen before. And when you start to see this more and more, and also start to realize why some things are not happening, you start to sense that there is something to all this stuff..

 

It's interesting you use a job as an example, 

 

In a New York Times critical review of LoA, they use getting a job as an example:

 

 

   The intuitive appeal of such stories illustrates the human tendency to see things that happen in sequence — first the positive thinking, then the positive results — as forming a chain of cause and effect. This is even more likely to happen when all the stories we hear fit an expected pattern, a phenomenon psychologists call “illusory correlation.” If we hear only about the crazy coincidences (“I was thinking about getting the job offer, and right then I got the call!”), not the unconnected events (“I thought about getting the offer, but it never came” or “I wasn’t thinking about the offer, then I got it”) or even the nonevents (“I didn’t think I would get the offer, and indeed I didn’t get it”), then we get a distorted picture. Even worse, we can misremember two things as happening in close succession when in fact they happened much farther apart in time, or even in the reverse order. When Byrne tells her readers to “make a connection” between the good things they do and the good things that come to them, she is focusing their attention on positive examples of the law of attraction, thereby reinforcing the illusion that it actually works.

 

   The powerful psychology behind these rhetorical tricks can distract readers from the larger illogic of ­Byrne’s books. What if a thousand people started sincerely visualizing winning the entire $200 million prize in this week’s Lotto? How would the universe sort out that mess? But it’s useless to argue with books like “The Secret” and “The Power.” They demonstrate an exquisite grasp of the reality of human nature. After all, the only other force that could explain how Rhonda Byrne put two books on top of the best-seller list is the law of attraction itself.

 

 

2 hours ago, WhiteOwl said:

thanks for putting yourself out there so much, it's great for everyone i think to see all perspectives. 

 

 

Thank you too. Congrats on the job too!

Edited May 28, 2022 by Aware Wolf

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

6 hours ago, Phil said:

 

@Adeptus Psychonautica

Did you even read it?

Yes I’d love to, thanks. 

Is there some other way I could have ascertained its content?

 

Drop me an email at AdeptusPsychonautica@gmail.com and we can work out the details.

[Forza21]

1 hour ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

Is there some other way I could have ascertained its content?

 

Drop me an email at AdeptusPsychonautica@gmail.com and we can work out the details.

@Phil @Adeptus Psychonautica

hope you guys are serious about it, i’d love to see it!

 

[Blessed2]

13 hours ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

Because I am curious what your process of divining truth is.

 

If you don’t actually have a way of divining truth, thats fine. No worries!

 

I suspect that's not your intention at all. You seem to be more interested in arguing, being right, showing off how irrational, deluded, wishful thinking, dumb, religious and "avoiding the hars truths of life" some people are. You are not at all open to hear what is being said, it's obvious.

 

Anyway, what comes to the "process of divining truth". I dunno anything about that. There is no a separate subjective inspecting objective reality. It's really more about being here and now. Noticing life supports, life goes on. Don't know if there is any better way to be here-now than by feeling alignment, how everything you ever desire is being done for you. You know it is, because you feel it. Feeling is far superior to rational thought. Feeling includes rational thought, though goes far beyond that.

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

4 hours ago, WhiteOwl said:

reading phils comment was fucking brilliant, not trying to fanboy here. i read the wall of text and it was so obvious, that that is YOU, all of it, not the people you talk about, so brilliant 😂 spot on.. don't you see that? 

Yeah its a really insightful technique🙄

 

Here let me give it a whirl with you - and i'll just pull this randomly from your profile

 

"She makes me feel guilty, how deeply insecure she is about herself, she doesn't understand me, she often says things in front of other people that portray me in ways that I dont like, frustrated/irritated, having status, hanging with the "right" people, toxic environment,  being afraid, a lot of approval seeking, I am angry and irritated, I am jealous, I want new friends, Wanting to meet a girlfriend or some sex, I am jealous, I am perfect, What you say is closeminded, People wouldn't like that, he's so way out there now, I cant go to his site anymore because its so cringe I cant take it, His dating advice for the guys there is just next level cringe, the things he tells them is uncomfortable and ridiculous, out of ignorance about what she is actually saying, while having no chill due to her insecurities, my sister has sort of the same thing going with her"

Wow, much profound... so insight

 

Now if the point is that there is some reflection of the author within words written by that author, then sure... I thought that would be a given, and I stand by everything I write within the context it is written. If however the point is that by splicing together words taken from a forum reveals the totality of a person then... are you serious?  Context mate... context 😉

 

I do actually think its a pretty good amalgamation of the levels of absurdity within this this thread.

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

28 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

I suspect that's not your intention at all. You seem to be more interested in arguing, being right, showing off how irrational, deluded, wishful thinking, dumb, religious and "avoiding the hars truths of life" some people are. You are not at all open to hear what is being said, it's obvious.

 

If you aren't interested in having the discussion then stop asking "why?", seems a bit argumentative no?

Here, lets use what you just wrote and do some ‘turn around’ aspect of Byron Katie’s The Work with you. Apparently it’s very insightful, healing and clarifying 🙂

 

"You seem to be more interested in arguing, being right, irrational, deluded, wishful thinking, dumb, religious and avoiding the harsh truths of life, You are not at all open to hear what is being said, it's obvious. Why? Why? Why?"

Maybe that's something you need to work on mate?

 

42 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

Anyway, what comes to the "process of divining truth". I dunno anything about that.

 

Clearly not, but honestly its a very useful thing to have, particularly when it comes to integrating experiences and making decisions that will have a positive effect on ones life. If you take everything on face value then you end up with the Leo Guras and Connor Murphys of the world. 

[WhiteOwl]

24 minutes ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

Yeah its a really insightful technique🙄

 

Here let me give it a whirl with you - and i'll just pull this randomly from your profile

 

"She makes me feel guilty, how deeply insecure she is about herself, she doesn't understand me, she often says things in front of other people that portray me in ways that I dont like, frustrated/irritated, having status, hanging with the "right" people, toxic environment,  being afraid, a lot of approval seeking, I am angry and irritated, I am jealous, I want new friends, Wanting to meet a girlfriend or some sex, I am jealous, I am perfect, What you say is closeminded, People wouldn't like that, he's so way out there now, I cant go to his site anymore because its so cringe I cant take it, His dating advice for the guys there is just next level cringe, the things he tells them is uncomfortable and ridiculous, out of ignorance about what she is actually saying, while having no chill due to her insecurities, my sister has sort of the same thing going with her"

Wow, much profound... so insight

 

Now if the point is that there is some reflection of the author within words written by that author, then sure... I thought that would be a given, and I stand by everything I write within the context it is written. If however the point is that by splicing together words taken from a forum reveals the totality of a person then... are you serious?  Context mate... context 😉

 

I do actually think its a pretty good amalgamation of the levels of absurdity within this this thread.

Not really profound, but if you find my journal insightful im glad lol. it's not really meant to be read at all tbh, it' just for myself releasing random thoughts (perspectives i don't want to carry around). Works better if you write it somewhere though. 

 

There of course is a reflection of the author, at least for the time. I can very easily see that whatever i write about other people is all about me (in the journal thing, thats the point of it), not about them, which is where it looks like you fail, and why his comment was brilliant, since your language makes it hilarious. 

 

I didn't say it reveals the totality of you lol, but ALL of that text was you.. mate ❤️

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by WhiteOwl

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

1 hour ago, Forza21 said:

@Phil @Adeptus Psychonautica

hope you guys are serious about it, i’d love to see it!

 

I'm always open to having a conversation with anyone, even those I disagree with. The ball is in his court.

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

7 minutes ago, WhiteOwl said:

I didn't say it reveals the totality of you lol, but ALL of that text was you.. mate

 

OK lets explore that, because we already covered that there is indeed a reflection of the author in the words  -so lets put that observation to one side, but you seem to think there is something deeper revealed - ALL of that text is me. Can you explain what you mean by that?

 

I often see this among the new age crowd that they hear some abstract theory and take it literally. Not to flog a dead horse but its very common on Actualized with people taking Leo absolutely literally, or thinking Spiral Dynamics is an all encapsulating theory of human development, and I see that mindset has migrated over here.
 

15 minutes ago, WhiteOwl said:

Not really profound, but if you find my journal insightful im glad

 

I'm hoping the obvious doesn't need to be stated, but like I said I just picked some random quotes from your profile, so no I don't think this text mashing technique is profound or insightful - I was taking the piss. That's not to say your journal isn't insightful - I have no idea because I was literally just skimming and grabbing random quotes.

[WhiteOwl]

4 hours ago, Aware Wolf said:

 

Well your mileage may vary. But I run into Mind Only types quite bit. The everything is illusion crowd. "There is no self" gang. Everything arises from our own consciousness! "Bus" is just a thought!

 

There's Leo, Connor Murphy, Arianna, etc. -- there's a ton of people on YouTube. I believe Leo had a scandal after someone killed themselves after receiving these type of teachings which reject duality or a common reality. 

 

You're right there shouldn't be a need to argue this. One of the signs of a cult is opposing critical thinking. There indeed is a bus and there is covid -- but how many people rejected vaccines because of delusion?

 

 

It's interesting you use a job as an example, 

 

In a New York Times critical review of LoA, they use getting a job as an example:

 

 

   The intuitive appeal of such stories illustrates the human tendency to see things that happen in sequence — first the positive thinking, then the positive results — as forming a chain of cause and effect. This is even more likely to happen when all the stories we hear fit an expected pattern, a phenomenon psychologists call “illusory correlation.” If we hear only about the crazy coincidences (“I was thinking about getting the job offer, and right then I got the call!”), not the unconnected events (“I thought about getting the offer, but it never came” or “I wasn’t thinking about the offer, then I got it”) or even the nonevents (“I didn’t think I would get the offer, and indeed I didn’t get it”), then we get a distorted picture. Even worse, we can misremember two things as happening in close succession when in fact they happened much farther apart in time, or even in the reverse order. When Byrne tells her readers to “make a connection” between the good things they do and the good things that come to them, she is focusing their attention on positive examples of the law of attraction, thereby reinforcing the illusion that it actually works.

 

   The powerful psychology behind these rhetorical tricks can distract readers from the larger illogic of ­Byrne’s books. What if a thousand people started sincerely visualizing winning the entire $200 million prize in this week’s Lotto? How would the universe sort out that mess? But it’s useless to argue with books like “The Secret” and “The Power.” They demonstrate an exquisite grasp of the reality of human nature. After all, the only other force that could explain how Rhonda Byrne put two books on top of the best-seller list is the law of attraction itself.

 

 

Thank you too. Congrats on the job too!

I dont really find it interesting to be fair haha, but everyone to his taste. The NYT article doens't say anything at all, other than it doesn't work. Just like i can't do anything else than say, i have directly experienced things that to me can't be a coincidence. Many times. That is not to say i can just manifest a lotto win (or many other things), also because i don't actually want it, it seems to me it has to be something that you actually really want, not some flimsy desire. (Don't want to discuss why some things happen for some and not others, this is just my own experience).

 

 

[WhiteOwl]

24 minutes ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

 

OK lets explore that, because we already covered that there is indeed a reflection of the author in the words  -so lets put that observation to one side, but you seem to think there is something deeper revealed - ALL of that text is me. Can you explain what you mean by that?

 

I often see this among the new age crowd that they hear some abstract theory and take it literally. Not to flog a dead horse but its very common on Actualized with people taking Leo absolutely literally, or thinking Spiral Dynamics is an all encapsulating theory of human development, and I see that mindset has migrated over here.
 

 

I'm hoping the obvious doesn't need to be stated, but like I said I just picked some random quotes from your profile, so no I don't think this text mashing technique is profound or insightful - I was taking the piss. That's not to say your journal isn't insightful - I have no idea because I was literally just skimming and grabbing random quotes.

You are talking about other people and this and that, and reading it and seeing it together like that just makes it so obvious that it's your own projections upon everything (= ALL you). You don't get a sense about the world or about other people you mention when reading it, but only what it's like for YOU. What you have going on. That's insightful.. And that's what could be challanged also, is it really like that mate?

 

I never read Spiral Dynamics yet, and i don't have a encapsulating understanding of anything as of yet.. But i have become a lot more self aware, and i do see things correlating with my inside / outside experience, thats all i am saying.

 

It doesn't have to be stated don't worry. Didn't seem so random though, seemed a bit mean and hostile to be fair, and completely missing the point also. Should be obvious to you why i wrote it, and also you didn't mash stuff together, you just copied 1 post. But it's all cool i don't mind, i am sure you are a nice guy.

 

When people go crazy about what other people believe in, (LoA, religion whatever) it always seems absurd to me. There is the unanswered question "Why and what is all of this beautiful craziness", and people care more about what some "other" thinks about it, more than pondering that question for themselves. 

 

 

I love where this is going though. Looking forward to the conversation with you guys!!

Edited May 28, 2022 by WhiteOwl

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

17 minutes ago, WhiteOwl said:

You are talking about other people and this and that, and reading it and seeing it together like that just makes it so obvious that it's your own projections upon everything (= ALL you). You don't get a sense about the world or about other people you mention when reading it, but only what it's like for YOU. What you have going on. That's insightful.. And that's what could be challanged also, is it really like that mate?

 

Realistically I am talking about A LOT of stuff, across A LOT of posts, and I tend to use blunt and humorous language. Its not meant to convey a sense of the world, its meant to address the topic at hand - that's how conversation works. The example I made of you also tells me nothing about your mother, or your sister, and nor would I expect it to - because stitching together a wall of text taken out of context really will not achieve that in any circumstance.

I actually see this as more of a Rorschach test for you and Phil, because you are looking at some random ink, seeing something that isn't really anything, and projecting your own idea onto what it is. I get you think its insightful, but realistically the insight is more for how you feel about me - and sure its no doubt ticking some boxes for you because of the language I use (reflection of the author), but try not to get too carried away with it. You guys use the word "projection" A LOT... you might want to have a bit of a think about that one...

 

Regardless you are welcome to believe what you want, but reality will always trump new-age bullshit, and hey if you are ever in Switzerland then feel free to drop me a message and you can witness for yourself see the ugly dark brooding hell in which I suffer due to my lack of belief in LoA 🙂

 

 

[Mandy]

10 hours ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

That's quite a broad question, what is my take on ALL OF WHAT 3 DIFFERENT PEOPLE think on nonduality. Yeah I'll pass on that minor ask for tonight

I meant nonduality in general, those three people are just well known examples, (Spira, Ramana, Nisargadatta), of people who say the same thing in different ways/analogies, etc. 

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

22 minutes ago, Mandy said:

I meant nonduality in general, those three people are just well known examples, (Spira, Ramana, Nisargadatta), of people who say the same thing in different ways/analogies, etc. 

 

I see it as a state of being within our human experience, which is just as useful and interesting as any other, but is not the be all and end all.

 

Again thats quite a short answer to a very big question, because we could be talking about philosophy or the nondual experience from something like psychedelics. It’s probably worth its own thread rather than de-railing this one.

[Mandy]

1 minute ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

It’s probably worth its own thread rather than de-railing this one.

👍 Agree, you want to start it? Nonduality can't be a state because states are themselves duality. And that's what (I thought) psychedelics at their best hopefully revealed, that by dramatically changing your state your realize yourself as prior to states and experience itself.