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What's With this Law of Attraction stuff?


Aware Wolf

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On 5/22/2022 at 4:01 PM, Aware Wolf said:

I just watched this CNN documentary, "Enlighten Us" about James Arthur Ray. James Ray was an Oprah-approved teacher who taught LoA and was on the hit video "The Secret". In 2009, three people died in a sweat lodge in an event hosted by Ray. Ray did two years of prison. Although it was an accident, no one meant for anyone to die, at one point a participant was nonresponsive and not breathing and James Ray told his students to leave them until the next round. That was all on him, said one of the prosecutors.

I'm not blaming LoA here. But it's part of the environment. Untrained, unlicensed, unprofessional teachers can master LoA and nonduality in a short amount of time and hang out a teaching shingle. In the documentary, the seminars by James Ray and Tony Robbins look like pep rallies. People shouting, cheering, pumping their fists, jumping up and down. I think it's emotionally provoking -- but towards what end and how long lasting is this adreneline crowd boost? There's board breaking, walking on coals, putting your hand in a glass tank full of snakes, and .... a sweat lodge. 

 

Walking on coals is akin to a magic trick. It's scientifically not a big deal. You don't need to have some super mind control to not be burned. Putting your hand into a glass tank full of peaceful kingsnakes and pet snakes isn't a big deal if you're not afraid of snakes. 

 

If you want a chicken to be a duck, and a duck to be a chicken -- you'll suffer, says Ajahn Chah. If you want your income to double within the year and meet your soulmate and you raise your vibrational level to attract it. Well. I don't know quite what to say. Maybe that it's just wishful thinking? Like a Polish saying, if you shit in one hand and wish in another, see which one fulls up first. 

 

It's interesting to me these myriad documentaries on gurus and cults and how they go bad. There's often a fine line between the red flags put out by these gurus and cults and what you hear everyday in spiritual centers. Like LoA is how your mind determines your reality. There might be truth to this, but i use a bus as a warning here too -- there's the reality of the bus and you need to respect that.

Again, great thread! Very interesting & enjoyable to read and see everyone’s experience with & thoughts on loa.  

 

A couple things seem really clear in regard to this thread… some are thinking about, talking about & referencing really, exclusively, the teachings of Abraham Hicks…

 

…while some are thinking about, talking about & referencing a very wide scope of really all kinds of other things, teachers and events including James Ray, The Secret, Tony Robbins, motivational seminars, board breaking, walking on coals, snakes, cults, ducks & chickens, wishful thinking, a myriad of documentaries, cults, gurus, spiritual centers, etc, etc. 

 

I find it interesting the differences between the movie The Secret & the teachings of Abraham Hicks are the reason Esther Hicks essentially requested the teachings of Abraham Hicks be removed from the movie The Secret. It seems like the way this thread has went mirrors that difference very accurately. 

 

If those events or teachers are helpful to anyone where they’re at on their path, great, I don’t mean to knock it, but for clarity’s sake none of that is what I’m talking about. Loa, creating a dreamboard, and using the emotional scale isn’t about any of those things. It’s direct experience, and very much, very deeply only direct experience rooted. It can understandably be frustrating for anyone who isn’t genuinely interested in the direct experience, that loa can’t be conceptualized. One can utilize the emotional scale as an alternative to conceptualizing, and this is essentially shadow work, or, transmutation, and that is what results in the change and manifestations desired. Not concepts, or even rational thinking. As a point of reference, (and you must see this for yourself, if desired) loa is transcendent to rational thinking, and yet this does not mean in an absence of rational thinking. Similar to how turquoise is transcendent to blue but is not per se an absence of blue in SD’s. It would be a trap ime to project in lieu of open mindedness & directly experiencing, or to assume loa to be the opposite thought; irrational thinking. 

 

On 5/22/2022 at 4:01 PM, Aware Wolf said:

It may be true that things are like an illusion, and there is no self -- but there is a bus. If you want to get in a reality war , your version vs. the bus's version of reality -- it's likely to not turn out well for you. I like the Stockdale Paradox: you must be willing to confront the brutal facts of your current reality, even as you maintain unwavering faith that you will prevail in the end

If things are illusory, and a bus is a thing, there isn’t a bus, there isn’t a ‘reality war’, a bus doesn’t have a version of reality, and there aren’t ‘brutal facts of reality’. Loa, as referenced previously in this comment, is transcendent to facts. Very much so. And yet, inclusive of, not a disregarding of.

 

While faith is perfectly fine by me, loa isn’t per se about believing anything. It’s about seeing for oneself what is already the case. This can not be done by assuming or conceptualizing anymore than meditation is directly experienced via assumptions and concepts about meditation. 

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On 5/22/2022 at 11:01 PM, Aware Wolf said:

Do you believe and practice LoA?

 

It's kind more of a feeling thing. I've come to notice feeling holds immense 'amount' of truth and information. You just 'know' via feeling and intuition.

 

On 5/22/2022 at 11:01 PM, Aware Wolf said:

How has it worked for you? 

 

Multiple things that I have written on the dreamboard has manifested. And it seems the journey is only beginning.

 

What if... We can really choose and create the life we want? A total game changer. Magic. Paradise. Blessed.

 

On 5/22/2022 at 11:01 PM, Aware Wolf said:

What do you think when you want something and practice and the thing does not happen? (counter evidence?)

 

At times one might fall into despair, worry, doubt etc. There it might seem like it's all just bullshit, due to believing discordant thoughts, which is why you are feeling bad. But as one follows the emotional guidance, heals and expresses, lets go and relaxes, one is back on track.

 

There must be an effortless way.

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8 hours ago, Phil said:

A couple things seem really clear in regard to this thread… some are thinking about, talking about & referencing really, exclusively, the teachings of Abraham Hicks…

 

…while some are thinking about, talking about & referencing a very wide scope of really all kinds of other things, teachers and events

 

Sure, and I think its clear that you are more the former rather than the latter, but its also clear that some people are espousing the latter with talk of changing reality, manifesting and magic, and even you are muddying the water with inane ramblings about immutable forces. If none of that is what You are referring to within LoA then simply state exactly what you think LoA is - its not difficult. As I said right at the beginning then I would imagine that once we strip away all the bullshit then we are going to be left with a fairly mundane occurrence which occurs with or without LoA and dreamboards.
 

8 hours ago, Phil said:

If things are illusory, and a bus is a thing, there isn’t a bus, there isn’t a ‘reality war’, a bus doesn’t have a version of reality, and there aren’t ‘brutal facts of reality’.

 

Go and drop your kids blindfolded in the middle of a busy highway and put that to the test. Material "things" are not illusory, every action you take confirms that you believe this even if you dance around it with metaphysical psychobabble. The "reality war" is the direct experience that physical reality will win EVERY TIME over statements like "there isn't a bus" - this is the brutal facts of reality. The bus will smash your body into pieces and your life as a human being will cease, feel free to prove me wrong.  

My YouTube channel - Adeptus Psychonautica

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12 hours ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

I countered that this is not such a great mindset, that there is a lot of value in having a more rational approach, and used the real world example that your lack of critical thinking led to you supporting, serving, and defending someone who you now deem to be questionable. I made the point that if you had been more savvy from the outset you might have spotted this, and postulate that possibly you continue this same line of muddy thinking today.

 

Could it be, that you are right now making the same kind of "mistake" in continuing to refer to the value of rational thinking, rational proof, objective reality etc. ? Perhaps you could be missing something extremely blessed stuff in your way of approach here.

 

You are freely being offered information on the possibility that you could literally be and have anything you desire, that you are literally living and being paradise, the kingdom of heaven. It has also been said that you could go and see it for yourself, in direct experience, rather than in conceptualization, rational thought and arguments.

 

No argument can touch it. Any rational narrative or argument can be "cut short" and returned to the stilness and empty silence of this moment.

 

There must be an effortless way.

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5 hours ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

 

Sure, and I think its clear that you are more the former rather than the latter, but its also clear that some people are espousing the latter with talk of changing reality, manifesting and magic, and even you are muddying the water with inane ramblings about immutable forces. If none of that is what You are referring to within LoA then simply state exactly what you think LoA is - its not difficult. As I said right at the beginning then I would imagine that once we strip away all the bullshit then we are going to be left with a fairly mundane occurrence which occurs with or without LoA and dreamboards.

Immutable law, not force. 

Just a suggestion… don’t imagine in lieu of the direct experience. Use the emotional scale. That is the cutting through the bs, and is anything but mundane ime. 

5 hours ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

Go and drop your kids blindfolded in the middle of a busy highway and put that to the test. Material "things" are not illusory, every action you take confirms that you believe this even if you dance around it with metaphysical psychobabble. The "reality war" is the direct experience that physical reality will win EVERY TIME over statements like "there isn't a bus" - this is the brutal facts of reality. The bus will smash your body into pieces and your life as a human being will cease, feel free to prove me wrong.  

(Not dualistic conceptualizations & beliefs.) 

The so called ‘proof’ is found only in your direct experience. That someone else could or should convince you or prove anything to you is really missing all of what’s being said here. Materialism seems projected upon an other, but in direct experience is a belief, a paradigm, thought attachment essentially. If interested, try what’s being said, vs the alternative of talking about others.

 

Try to simplify the thinking. If someone was suggesting you try a bite of their pie, you can directly experience the taste, or you might not be interested in that. It doesn’t make the suggestion “psychobabble”. 

 

The ‘proof’ is in the ‘moon’, not the finger. 

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4 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

You are freely being offered information on the possibility that you could literally be and have anything you desire, that you are literally living and being paradise, the kingdom of heaven. It has also been said that you could go and see it for yourself, in direct experience, rather than in conceptualization, rational thought and arguments.

 

We already covered this - lets just assume for a moment that I literally AM anything I desire and am literally am living in the kingdom of heaven, or at least that I am on that path, all without any interaction with LoA. Now again in my specific example we can use whatever yardstick you like to validate this (psychological, emotional, financial, career etc), and we can compare ME to someone who DOES wholeheartedly believe in LoA, and we can see if there is any significant differences. Does anyone want to run that experiment?

 

So without hopefully sounding like too much of an asshole, all I see here is some people who subscribe to LoA, and who don't have anything of note to show for it. On the other hand we have people who don't subscribe to LoA and who seem to be just as spiritually/emotionally/financially/socially fulfilled as those who do - hmmmmm, what's going on there then??? (and lets be real, I'm not some unique outlier here).

 

***NOTE*** I fully appreciate that stuff like "financially" is some materialistic objective which is outside the bounds of "REAL" LoA, but as we already covered even amongst the believers on this thread we have multiple interpretations so I am covering all bases. Again just apply whatever yardstick you want.

 

You see in order for your argument to have any weight, you would have to assume there is something "missing" for me, and that this door is being sealed shut by my reluctance to accept the divine grace of... (bow my head in reverence)... The Law Of Fucking Attraction. There seems to be no other conclusion - I do not believe, therefore I am bereft of its embrace - woe is me. I am sure you can tell but I find this thinking absurd and bordering on cult like.

 

It actually reminds me of flat earth. "If only you could open your eyes to the true nature of the flat earth, your life would take on new meaning and become literal heaven!" - how much time do you spend investigating those claims? Or the Anunnaki? Or seances? Or sorcery?

Whaaaat? You don't take them seriously - so close minded! The information that could change your life is bring freely offered to you! Don't consider for a moment it has zero basis in reality , instead just weep that you will never know its delights 😄

 

Seriously though what this boils down to is that if you can't show the effect of the thing, then there probably isn't a thing.

My YouTube channel - Adeptus Psychonautica

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3 hours ago, Phil said:

Immutable law, not force. 

 

A law is that which compels the behaviour of a thing, a real law requires some force to bring about that behaviour. If indeed the LoA is a REAL law then it must have a mechanism through which it exerts force of some kind. 

 

3 hours ago, Phil said:

The so called ‘proof’ is found only in your direct experience. That someone else could or should convince you or prove anything to you is really missing all of what’s being said here. Materialism seems projected upon an other, but in direct experience is a belief, a paradigm, thought attachment essentially. If interested, try what’s being said, vs the alternative of talking about others.

 

This literally avoids answering any of the points raised. You had stated previously that a material object (a bus) is an illusion, and that there would be no consequence with such an illusion interacting with an individual in what @Aware Wolf labelled "the brutal facts of your current reality", to which you further replied that there are no such brutal facts. The proof that such things are not illusory, and that you do not believe them to be illusory, lies not only within ones direct experience but also within the collective experience - you do not put your children in dangerous situations correct? You teach them to cross the road correctly so that they do not get smushed by oncoming traffic correct? You do realise the car you sit in to make your videos is not what most people consider an illusion correct? You know that its more productive to engage in dialogue like a human being rather than crowbar in every possible nugget of pseudo-philosophical bullshit right?

OK OK, maybe that last one might be a bit of a stretch for you, but just a suggestion - give it a try   🙂

My YouTube channel - Adeptus Psychonautica

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20 minutes ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

A law is that which compels the behaviour of a thing, a real law requires some force to bring about that behaviour. If indeed the LoA is a REAL law then it must have a mechanism through which it exerts force of some kind.

There is neither “some force” nor “some mechanism”. 

20 minutes ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

This literally avoids answering any of the points raised. You had stated previously that a material object (a bus) is an illusion, and that there would be no consequence with such an illusion interacting with an individual in what @Aware Wolf labelled "the brutal facts of your current reality", to which you further replied that there are no such brutal facts. The proof that such things are not illusory, and that you do not believe them to be illusory, lies not only within ones direct experience but also within the collective experience - you do not put your children in dangerous situations correct? You teach them to cross the road correctly so that they do not get smushed by oncoming traffic correct? You do realise the car you sit in to make your videos is not what most people consider an illusion correct? You know that its more productive to engage in dialogue like a human being rather than crowbar in every possible nugget of pseudo-philosophical bullshit right?

OK OK, maybe that last one might be a bit of a stretch for you, but just a suggestion - give it a try   🙂

When it is said the answer is seen in your direct experience, it can be said that is avoidance. It can also be noticed focus is not on direct experience as suggested, but is on avoidance. Loa is not about avoidance. Deflection can be noticed by taking the time to look through this thread. See what you didn’t reply to, and the changing of context via the recaps of what was said. If interested, contemplate those. Refraining from projection, specifically derogatory terminology upon what’s being said and upon others would allow for clarity in seeing what’s being said, vs adding to what’s being said, as if what was added, was said. Though it might be a change of pace, and potentially initially difficult, try to notice when focus goes to others, what others think, using others as conceptual examples… and inspect & scrutinize direct experience instead. 

 

It’s a suggestion, and you may or may not be interested, but if you are interested in inspecting, this is the simplest manor of going about it I have come across…

This method can be applied to any thought(s), including facts, scientific findings, collective beliefs, etc. 

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5 minutes ago, Phil said:

There is neither “some force” nor “some mechanism”. 

 

Then there is no "immutable" law

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

Deflection can be noticed by taking the time to look through this thread. See what you didn’t reply to, and the changing of context via the recaps of what was said. 

 

It can indeed. I just brought one of your own deflections to your attention in just such a recap, notice how you still have not managed to answer it in any useful manner.

8 minutes ago, Phil said:

Refraining from projection, specifically derogatory terminology upon what’s being said and upon others would allow for clarity in seeing what’s being said

 

I use the language that I use to make the point I wish to make with sufficient clarity. Try it for yourself, notice that it is much more effective in terms of communicating ideas, perhaps consider this as a limiting factor within your own communication, or that your obtuse writing might be counterproductive. Anyway derogatory terminology is just an illusion, look for the moon, not the finger 😉

My YouTube channel - Adeptus Psychonautica

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@Adeptus Psychonautica You are taking a very scientific/rational approach here. It's fine, nothing wrong with that, but the problem is that LOA is not a rational, physical, scientifically measurable or figure-outable thing. Though that doesn't mean it isn't true.

 

No amount of logical deduction or rational arguments can touch it. It's like trying to make a brick wall disappear with logical arguments. This is not blind belief, wishful thinking or cult mentality. It includes, yet transcends rational thinking.

 

There must be an effortless way.

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29 minutes ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

Then there is no "immutable" law

That would be a belief. 

Immutable

Not subject or susceptible to change.

Not mutable; not capable or susceptible of change; unchangeable; unalterable.

Unable to be changed without exception.

 

If you’re not interested, that’s ok! 

 

30 minutes ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

It can indeed. I just brought one of your own deflections to your attention in just such a recap, notice how you still have not managed to answer it in any useful manner.

My answer is to inspect direct experience, if you aren’t interested, again, that’s fine. No worries!

 

31 minutes ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

I use the language that I use to make the point I wish to make with sufficient clarity. Try it for yourself, notice that it is much more effective in terms of communicating ideas, perhaps consider this as a limiting factor within your own communication, or that your obtuse writing might be counterproductive. Anyway derogatory terminology is just an illusion, look for the moon, not the finger 😉

No one is trying to communicate an idea here. Loa is not an idea, and again, is immutable. It is just easier to see what’s being said without derogatory terminology projected onto others. That too… if you aren’t interested in seeing this, is ok. 

 

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@Adeptus Psychonautica You ask about teaching your kids to safely cross the street, do you tell your kids that their writing is obtuse when they write something? Or belittle them and question their intelligence when they disagree with you? Do you want other people belittling them and questioning their intelligence in demeaning ways? If kids deserve to be taught to safely cross roads, don't they deserve to be taught to expect and give respect? Don't they deserve to be received by people who seek first to understand rather than be understood?

 

Do you want to be the only intelligent soul living in a world of idiots, or do you want to be surrounded by brilliant loving people? What if we are all just kids here, belonging to no one? What if the world reflects back to us what we want, and what if we don't believe in what we really want? 

 

 

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@Blessed2 well lets try this from another angle - how do you know it IS true?

 

There are many things which are not rational, physical, scientifically measurable etc. The obvious example is the phenomenon of “love”, which I wholeheartedly believe in, so its not like the problem is the lack of physical.

 

Even with “love” we can see the real word effect (couples, families, devotion), and real world effect is what is being claimed on some level for LoA - so where is it?

 

Also you kind of skipped the part about why you might not believe flat earth, annunaki etc. Surely everything is of equal validity despite lack of impact in reality?

My YouTube channel - Adeptus Psychonautica

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5 minutes ago, Mandy said:

You ask about teaching your kids to safely cross the street, do you tell your kids that their writing is obtuse when they write something?

 

You might be assuming my kids are toddlers, they are actually teenagers. If they were writing something which required clarity of communication, and instead write something obtuse, then I would tell them that it was obtuse because I do not mollycoddle them.

 

11 minutes ago, Mandy said:

Or belittle them and question their intelligence when they disagree with you?

 

No, I don't belittle my children nor question their intelligence. I welcome our disagreements and find great joy in seeing how fully formed and reasoned their opinions are, and how well they articulate and communicate them regardless of the actual topic. 

 

33 minutes ago, Mandy said:

Do you want other people belittling them and questioning their intelligence in demeaning ways?

 

Its certainly not one of my primary parenting objectives, but conflict is a fact of life so my parenting has involved preparing them to deal with such things. As the saying goes - "Prepare the child for the road, not the road for the child".

I think you are getting at here is that it was I who somehow started making personal attacks within this thread, that is incorrect. If anything it started with yourself comparing my comments against LoA ideology to bullying small children. This conflation of challenging ideas into personal attack is typical of religious or cult like thinking.

 

42 minutes ago, Mandy said:

If kids deserve to be taught to safely cross roads, don't they deserve to be taught to expect and give respect?

 

This is a very strangely formed question. Usually the first part should logically set up the second... but that aside

 

No, I teach my kids that respect is earned, not expected. If you mean do they act respectfully or carry themselves with respect, then of course, but that is not the same as respect as some kind of token entitlement. 

 

51 minutes ago, Mandy said:

Don't they deserve to be received by people who seek first to understand rather than be understood?

 

I don't get to decide what they deserve outside of my care - again, prepare the child for the road, not the road for the child. I think its better that THEY understand, and question, make good decisions based on their own reasoning, and that they would have the common sense to know truth from falsehood. So far so good.

 

58 minutes ago, Mandy said:

Do you want to be the only intelligent soul living in a world of idiots, or do you want to be surrounded by brilliant loving people?

 

The second one please, but we would really need to define what you mean by "brilliant loving people", because in my book that would not be people like you and Phil. I don't say that to be mean, I am literally just being honest.

 

1 hour ago, Mandy said:

What if we are all just kids here, belonging to no one?

 

Yeah... ummm... what if a unicorn... is just a donkey from the future? Seriously I have no idea where you are going with this

 

1 hour ago, Mandy said:

What if the world reflects back to us what we want, and what if we don't believe in what we really want? 

 

If a person doesn't believe in what they want, then I would probably advise them to consider wanting something else.

Well, that was certainly abstract! I hope you found something useful in all that, it was actually quite an interesting diversion to reply to, although I think you didn't quite hit the target you were aiming for, and I'm genuinely not sure what that target was.

My YouTube channel - Adeptus Psychonautica

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1 hour ago, Phil said:

That would be a belief. 

 

LoA would be a belief, that is an immutable fact

 

If you can't comprehend that, its fine . No worries! 

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

My answer is to inspect direct experience, if you aren’t interested, again, that’s fine. No worries!

 

I did, it said LoA was a belief.

 

If you can't comprehend that, again its fine . No worries! 

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

No one is trying to communicate an idea here. Loa is not an idea, and again, is immutable. It is just easier to see what’s being said without derogatory terminology projected onto others. That too… if you aren’t interested in seeing this, is ok. 

 

Everyone is trying to communicate ideas here, that is literally what the internet is. If you can't understand even that basic foundation of what is occurring, its fine . No worries! 

 

Honestly this thread is fucking amazing. I would never have guessed you guys would dig in so deep over the law of attraction - mind blown! 😀

My YouTube channel - Adeptus Psychonautica

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