What's With this Law of Attraction stuff?

[Orb]

@Aware Wolf All those cults are centered on the leader. They form a codependent relationship with the leader and that is what makes them feel good. 

 

I do not derive good feeling from leader or belief system, just by merging thoughts with feeling. 

 

But yes thank you, and also I do not think youre below me, I think youre in the same situation as me, right on track in life!

Edited May 25, 2022 by Orb

[Aware Wolf]

Is it a law ? There's the *Law* of Attraction. That which is like unto itself is drawn.The law of attraction is a philosophy suggesting that positive thoughts bring positive results into a person's life, while negative thoughts bring negative outcomes. It is based on the belief that thoughts are a form of energy and that positive energy attracts success in all areas of life, including health, finances, and relationships.

 

There's also Alan Watt's Backwards Law: the backwards law proposes that the more we pursue something, the more we achieve the opposite of what we truly want and the more disappointed we feel. 

-- 

I give the example of someone desparately seeking a soulmate and spouse. This desperation scares many partners away. On the other hand, we've all known people getting out of a relationship and say they'll swear off any relationship -- and the odds increase dramatically they'll wind up married within a year. 

 

There's the Stockdale Paradox: have the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be while maintaining faith that in the end, no matter how long it takes, you will prevail. 

 

There's Tong Len practice -- which is a very powerful practice. Tong Len is taking on other's suffering and pain. An advanced practitioner might take on cancer. Interestingly, @Mandyhas a video on her channel on Tong Len. It's unusual for LoA advocates to also practice Tong Len as Tong Len is taking on what you do not want. Taking on another's cancer -- which I suppose is a negative thought and would scare a lot of people -- is a valid spiritual practice which is in direct contrast to LoA. In Tibet, Tong Len as part of LoJong practice was known as a miracle practice and was known for curing lepers. 

 

You might practice LoA and see results. You might also practice Tong Len which is diametrically in contrast to LoA and also see results. You could also practice Stoicism and Equanimity and give up on desiring any certain outcome especially those outside of your own control. 

[Phil]

22 minutes ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

Try and keep your own words in mind. To write this immediately followed by nitpicking the use of "we" or "us" is both pedantic and hypocritical. The communication that was intended is perfectly clear, so I don't require you to correct my English thank you very much. Further to that the words used are absolutely correct within the context I used them - trust me, I'm English 🙂 

The reference wasn’t to linguistics or the use of, but to the difference between direct experience and the conceptualizing of direct experience. There isn’t a direct experience of we express desire, or of our inner most desire. These are conceptualizations assumed to be direct experience. The relevance with respect to loa is likewise found in looking past the projection of someone being, or of the point of the words being pedantic, hypocritical and or corrective. More relevant in determining if the inspection and realization of the distinction is worthwhile, is how the projection of pedantic, hypocritical and or corrective feels. 

 

1 hour ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

What you would you say to those who wrote and received none of it?

I can’t answer a those, but if you have specific examples from non-conceptual direct experience, I would be able to speak to that with respect to loa. 

1 hour ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

That is correct, and yes I will continue to not experience things they have no basis in reality, as will you. Notice how this differs from actual immutable laws, nobody suddenly floats off the ground due to their lack of belief in gravity - the law works equally in every occurrence regardless of belief or knowledge of the system.

Loa & creating a dreamboard isn’t about what is not experienced, but is about what is desired to be experienced, and the conscious co-creating of said experience therein. Gravity was referenced as analogous, meaning the same as, loa. There is gravity wether one believes in gravity or not. What is being said is that this is the same for loa. What is being said is not experienced or realized via conceptualization or conversing, but via creating a dreamboard. 

 

1 hour ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

Can you explain what you mean here by "immutable" and in what context it applies to LoA? I've read your page on it BTW so please don't just link that, and it still make no sense in this context. I suspect you are using it in the way some new-age chaps use "quantum", in that its substitution used because you think it sounds good or meaningful, but is in no way related to the actual definition of the word. 

Immutable

Not subject or susceptible to change.

Not mutable; not capable or susceptible of change; unchangeable; unalterable.

Unable to be changed without exception.

 

(The link is to the search results of: “Definition of immutable”)

 

 

 

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

34 minutes ago, Phil said:

The relevance with respect to loa is likewise found in looking past the projection of someone being, or of the point of the words being pedantic, hypocritical and or corrective. More relevant in determining if the inspection and realization of the distinction is worthwhile, is how the projection of pedantic, hypocritical and or corrective feels. 

 

That does not address anything - to which distinction do you refer?

The projection of pedantic and hypocritical does not feels like anything, it is merely a description of the nature of your communication. I would add "meandering" and "enervating" to that mix.

 

45 minutes ago, Phil said:

I can’t answer a those, but if you have specific examples from non-conceptual direct experience, I would be able to speak to that with respect to loa. 

 

Oh Jesus... are you really this obtuse? Use your imagination, run a thought experiment, do a little role play in the mirror.

 

50 minutes ago, Phil said:

Loa & creating a dreamboard isn’t about what is not experienced, but is about what is desired to be experienced, and the conscious co-creating of said experience therein. Gravity was referenced as analogous, meaning the same as, loa. There is gravity wether one believes in gravity or not. 

 

Yeah we covered this already, but no analogous does not mean "the same as", and clearly LoA is in no way the same or even similar as gravity as it does not apply in a consistent, testable way across all instances. In fact it can be argued that it does not apply across ANY instance. Again this indicates to me that you are using vocabulary you do not understand and are making your own definitions up for. Reminds me of a certain someone... 😉

 

55 minutes ago, Phil said:

What is being said is that this is the same for loa. What is being said is not experienced or realized via conceptualization or conversing, but via creating a dreamboard. 

 

Yes I understand that is what is being said. I am stating you are talking new-age bollocks which does not stand up as any kind of objective claim, unlike gravity or any real LAW.

 

56 minutes ago, Phil said:

Immutable

Not subject or susceptible to change.

Not mutable; not capable or susceptible of change; unchangeable; unalterable.

Unable to be changed without exception.

 

(The link is to the search results of: “Definition of immutable”)

 

Thanks for that. So you are labeling something which at best is extremely variable, and it worst is not actually there - as something which is "unchangeable, unalterable, and cannot be changed without exception". Yeah, that make fuck all sense - but immutable sure is a nice sounding word, I can see why you like it!

Dude, honestly though the claims you are making here are just as silly as Leo's claims around healing abilities from boofing 5 MEO. Both are subjective ideas which you are trying to claim have capability over objective reality and thats just fucking dumb, not to mention unsubstantiated. Like I said to Mandy - it looks like you can take the person out of Actualized, but you can't take the Actualized out of the person, and you guys are still deep in it.

[Orb]

3 minutes ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

Like I said to Mandy - it looks like you can take the person out of Actualized, but you can't take the Actualized out of the person, and you guys are still deep in it.

@Adeptus Psychonautica you continue to frame yourself as the "smart guy" and then speak to us in a condescending manner. 

 

Reminds me of a certain someone 😉.

[Phil]

26 minutes ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

That does not address anything - to which distinction do you refer?

The projection of pedantic and hypocritical does not feels like anything, it is merely a description of the nature of your communication. I would add "meandering" and "enervating" to that mix.

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

the difference between direct experience and the conceptualizing of direct experience. There isn’t a direct experience of we express desire, or of our inner most desire.

 

26 minutes ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

Oh Jesus... are you really this obtuse? Use your imagination, run a thought experiment, do a little role play in the mirror.

With respect to loa & creating a dreamboard, that is conceptualizing as compared to the direct experience.

26 minutes ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

Yeah we covered this already, but no analogous does not mean "the same as", and clearly LoA is in no way the same or even similar as gravity as it does not apply in a consistent, testable way across all instances. In fact it can be argued that it does not apply across ANY instance. Again this indicates to me that you are using vocabulary you do not understand and are making your own definitions up for. Reminds me of a certain someone... 😉

What’s being said is that loa, analogous to gravity, is immutable, does apply across all instances, and applies without exception. It is testable, but not be a we or an us, and not by conceptualizing loa, only by you. The suggestion is to create a dreamboard to see this. 

26 minutes ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

Yes I understand that is what is being said. I am stating you are talking new-age bollocks which does not stand up as any kind of objective claim, unlike gravity or any real LAW.

The claim is that you will see for yourself. Loa is like gravity in that it remains unchanged by any claims. 

26 minutes ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

Thanks for that. So you are labeling something which at best is extremely variable, and it worst is not actually there - as something which is "unchangeable, unalterable, and cannot be changed without exception". Yeah, that make fuck all sense - but immutable sure is a nice sounding word, I can see why you like it!

Dude, honestly though the claims you are making here are just as silly as Leo's claims around healing abilities from boofing 5 MEO. Both are subjective ideas which you are trying to claim have capability over objective reality and thats just fucking dumb, not to mention unsubstantiated. Like I said to Mandy - it looks like you can take the person out of Actualized, but you can't take the Actualized out of the person, and you guys are still deep in it.

Loa is not variable, but is perfectly consistent. The variable is wether or not one creates a dreamboard and directly experiences this. ‘Objective reality’ is also a dualistic self-conceptualization, which is verifiable by attempting to point to it. Loa does not need substantiation. If you are interested in creating a dreamboard to see what is being said, you are free to. You could think of it as just for the fun of consciously creating. 

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

1 hour ago, Orb said:

Your desire to be absolutely sure of something will never be satisfied because its born out of doubt, and LoA will continue to prove your doubt right. Youll see all the lies, suffering, and "realities" of the world, I have too and im finished with that.

 

Ummmm dude, I seriously doubt you have any idea what my desires are, what will make me satisfied, and what realities I see - I think someone is projecting a little bit!

 

I mean I hate to brag mate but lets see if your argument stacks up. I have been in a loving relationship for 22 years, I have raised two beautiful children, I have a successful career, a successful fulfilling hobby which also generates income, I get to travel the world... to be honest I think I am doing pretty fucking amazing chief, and I am absolutely satisfied with my reality. So even based on your own prediction, LoA seems to be completely feeble - oh well, better luck next time!

 

Here's a thought - maybe you would see less lies and suffering if you stopped buying into psychic sewage like LoA and Actualized? 

[Orb]

5 minutes ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

a thought - maybe you would see less lies and suffering if you stopped buying into psychic sewage like LoA and Actualized? 

@Adeptus Psychonautica when I said you'll see more lies, I didn't mean in the sense that you will see lies and believe them, I meant you will see people lying and deceiving others because of your doubtfulness.

 

Basically you will see more examples of people being deluded, cults, scandals, etc.

 

Sounds to me like your life is amazing, that's great 😁!

 

I'm catching up to that lifestyle and will have a wife too one day!

 

But I sense some arrogance in the way you frame yourself as a smart "objective guy" then speak to others like they're stupid, that's what led me to say what I said earlier. 

 

This forum is for discussing the topics you deem "Naive" "Dumb" etc. If it doesn't resonate with you, why try to prove you're right/sane/smart when we are all already aware of your stance on this?

 

Nothing wrong with expressing your disagreements, but when your communication comes off as condescending people sense that because it's not aligned with the intelligence we really are.

 

My interactions here with you have been very humbling, as I myself thought this way for different religions/schools of thought/etc. So thanks 😊.

 

We only desire to contribute here in a way that helps according to what this forums about. 

 

We only wish to find peace in our lives, if we can find peace living this way with LoA and you can find peace living your way, what's the point of going at each other? 

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

@Orb well if the forum as you state is for discussion of such topics, then what is wrong with a challenge of such claims being made within the same conversation? Surely the goal here is not just to create a toxic positivity echo chamber of people slurping each others assholes over grandiose unsubstantiated claims? Surely such claims are not so feeble that they cannot be tested with mere words? Surely there is something of value that can be teased out?

 

So on that basis I will continue to partake in whichever conversations I deem to be of interest, thank you very much.

 

I don’t think I am framing myself as the “smart objective guy”, thats simply my nature, and I don’t recall calling any person stupid, some ideas though are certainly stupid. That might come across as arrogant to you but thats just the situation of who we are - I am clearly very good at dissecting arguments down into their core components and viewing them through a rational lens. Its what I do, especially to grandiose claims which lack substance.

 

If you find peace living through LoA then you go for it, but if you want to put that belief to the anvil of conversation, then don’t get pissy when it starts looking a bit flimsy.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Adeptus Psychonautica

[Mandy]

3 hours ago, Aware Wolf said:

There's Tong Len practice -- which is a very powerful practice. Tong Len is taking on other's suffering and pain. An advanced practitioner might take on cancer. Interestingly, @Mandyhas a video on her channel on Tong Len. It's unusual for LoA advocates to also practice Tong Len as Tong Len is taking on what you do not want. Taking on another's cancer -- which I suppose is a negative thought and would scare a lot of people -- is a valid spiritual practice which is in direct contrast to LoA. In Tibet, Tong Len as part of LoJong practice was known as a miracle practice and was known for curing lepers. 

Tonglen - "ohhh... there is no death or separation."

 

LOA --- "ohhhh.... there is no death or separation. "

 

Nonduality-- "ohhh... there is no death or separation."

[Orb]

@Adeptus Psychonautica I got nothing left, all I can say is thanks for the discussion, learned some stuff from it.

[Dima]

19 hours ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

Oh no - here comes the pandemic! We are all fucked, everyone is sick, there is no one to gather food or tend to the animals - did someone forget to make a dreamboard? Shit...now the river has just flooded to record levels and we are even more fucked, all the food we stored is wet and spoiling. If only some learned new-age folk could have shared their copy of "The Secret" then all this death and suffering could have been avoided! Why did no one teach us poor savages about LoA? Did we not have enough desire? Is it because we didn't open an etsy store to showcase our creativity?

 

Hi there 🙂

 

Just try dreamboarding for a year, together with daily morning meditation, without direct experience is hard to see how it works.

 

Dreamboard helps to figure out what you really want / who you are. 

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

@Dima Mate, if you (and @Phil) are operating under the assumption that I have never tried dreamboarding, then that assumption is incorrect.

 

The claim being made within this thread is not that dreamboarding helps figure out what you want, but that as part of the LoA process, which is a law of the universe, then it will manifest your desires. I think that is demonstrably bullshit.
 

I would totally agree that dreamboarding, journaling, future authoring etc are helpful tools in figuring stuff out about yourself - no arguments there.

[WhiteOwl]

@Adeptus Psychonautica What you say makes sense and seems very rational, but also a bit closeminded. Just the fact that this experience is happening is pure magic in itself, i try to be humble to that at least. I used to be very rational and scientific, and i still am to some degree, but its so damn obvious in my life and i have had countless experiences of things showing up in my experience depending on my "vibration" or how i am feeling. Looking back, there can't be doubt that you are influencing whats occuring by your "energy" (its just words, you get what i mean".  I don't have the understanding to stay in high vibration or whatever, but i sure as hell do attract circumstances with how i feel. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by WhiteOwl

[Lotus]

 

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

@WhiteOwl did you take into account how many experiences  did or did not show up which had zero or negative correlation with your vibration or how you were feeling? I guarantee it would be more occurrences by orders of magnitude.

 

I’m glad you agree that it makes sense and is rational, notice that the opposing view is neither of those things. Notice that it isn’t actually “immutable”, that it isn’t consistent, and that it relies upon personal “feels”. That’s absolutely fine and you are welcome to believe what you want, but if you want to have an open conversation about it on a forum then I am going to highlight the holes in it based upon my rational perspective. 
 

You might think thats closeminded, and if not believing LoA based on the flimsy case presented here then I guess I am close minded, but being open-minded does not mean swallowing flakey ideas without question - thats religious thinking mate.

 

[Mandy]

1 hour ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

You might think thats closeminded, and if not believing LoA based on the flimsy case presented here then I guess I am close minded, but being open-minded does not mean swallowing flakey ideas without question - thats religious thinking mate.

You already have the idea that you are a body moving around in the world. If I told you that you are not a body that moves around in the world, but instead that you are awareness, and that you yourself are not the body and never move, and everything is coming to you as if reality were like an omni theater or a VR headset, would you switch your perspective to see if that might be so, or would you pass it off as a flakey idea? It's not really an idea at all, it's a way of describing perspective. Thinking a thing is ridiculous misses out on the fun of curiosity. We may think we have a set fixed perspective, that is solid and everything that challenges it is ridiculous, but it may itself also be a ridiculous idea that was swallowed long, long ago. 

[Phil]

4 hours ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

@Dima Mate, if you (and @Phil) are operating under the assumption that I have never tried dreamboarding, then that assumption is incorrect.

 

The claim being made within this thread is not that dreamboarding helps figure out what you want, but that as part of the LoA process, which is a law of the universe, then it will manifest your desires. I think that is demonstrably bullshit.
 

I would totally agree that dreamboarding, journaling, future authoring etc are helpful tools in figuring stuff out about yourself - no arguments there.

How did the direct experience go?

What did you write?

How are you deciphering that the process or dreamboarding is demonstrably bullshit, vs doubt was experienced? 

Did you use the emotional scale, and if so what did you find, as in how did that experience (scale & what’s on board) go? 

[Mandy]

@Lotus Love that one! 👍

[Loop]

@Adeptus Psychonautica
 

Focus manifests what it is upon, this is immutable. 
Really I don’t feel anyone here is trying to get you to believe anything. Believing LoA will just get you the belief of LoA, which really isn’t anything. Notice the dynamic of life, you might just discover something new, beyond the churning of thought & belief. 
 

Only one thought, where does focus wonder? 
 

I do also feel there is a lot of nonsensical beliefs regarding LoA, but the point of any investigation is to get the dynamic now, not growing more of a belief system around it. We could sit here and logic about LoA all year if we wanted to, but that’s just more of the same, beliefs, not experiencing true dynamics, not experiencing the laws that govern what is going on.
 
Emotions are your sixth sense, I wouldn't consider person feelings to be as arbitrary as seems to be implied. 
 

I am all with you for not swallowing ideas without question. Consider there are dynamics going on right now that you are not yet aware of, without this consideration I feel a well of curiosity is being blocked off. Whatever you discover is whatever you discover. But if you going into it already believing the thing is bullshit or this way or that way or any way, then well you already lost it, there is no space for something new to be discovered.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Loop