The Gateway, Teal Swan, and the message vs the teacher

[Mandy]

@Jonas Long Everyone is dead. 

[Jonas Long]

Just now, Mandy said:

@Jonas Long Everyone is dead. 

That's your argument? 

[Jonas Long]

Anyone with an active cult who is a living breathing leader of an active cult. that's who I'm talking about.

[Phil]

Discussing content vs discussing selves seems to be challenging or have some difficulty around it. Here’s to exemplification. Here is some content, and a counter point, or, an entirely different content. If interested, read both pieces of content below which is the first two minutes of an episode and a quote, contemplate what’s said, and share any comment about the content. Try to reframe from attaching any comments to about a separate self. Possible considerations… what’s is different if anything about the content shared, deception, self-deception, truth of happiness, intentions behind deception, manipulation, misunderstanding, is what’s shared coming from the illusory view of a separate self (not quite the same as there are any) etc. Wide open. 

 

 

“Welcome to the ultimate guide of happiness. It’s time we take a very grounded good look at this idea of happiness and how happiness actually works. Now, I’ve covered this topic in the past but now we’re gonna get real serious, real in depth, real practical.

 

I’ve been studying psychology and philosophy for so long, so deeply, that happiness has become so clear to me… what actually makes people happy and what doesn’t. I’ve experimented with many different things and materialistic pursuits, starting businesses and so fourth that I have quite a bit of experience here that I want to share with you.

 

Even though I have all this understanding of happiness, don’t get this wrong, that doesn’t mean that I’m always happy. In fact the biggest obstacle that I’ve faced with my own happiness is with my health…. Even though that’s the case and that’s been handicapping me and my happiness, even still - I’ve been able to reach levels of happiness that few humans can comprehended.

 

But in this episode I’m not going to get to spiritual with you. We’re going to keep this very grounded. I really wanna help you to set your lifestyle up in a way where you can achieve true happiness and and it’s not about attaining some ultimate Buddahood or something like that. And I can help to avoid many of the common traps that people run into when they try to pursue happiness. … I’m going to give you lists of things that will make you happpy, very concrete things. And I’ll give you lists of things that will not make you happy… that will make it impossible for you to be happy. “

 

Leo Gura

 

 

“Security and happiness cannot be found in anything that comes and goes. Find whatever it is in your experience that doesn't appear, move, change or disappear, and invest your identity, security and happiness in that alone.”

 

 

Rupert Spira

[noomii]

I have followed Teal Swan's content for years. I have kind of lost interest but I still watch some of her short videos on YT. 

I haven't watched the Deep end documentary or the podcast yet (just because I struggle with watching videos atm).

 

20 minutes ago, Mandy said:

Honest question though, how do I know it's not manufactured spliced voice clips? Or taken out of context?

Teal swan did upload several videos trying to prove that the Deep end is fake on her channel. I haven't watched much of it.

 

I can't really see how her content have impacted me negatively. I have listened mainly to her and Leo Gura the past years. It's pretty clear how Leo Gura have impacted me negatively though.

[Someone here]

38 minutes ago, Phil said:

Happy to but help me out… how so?

What questions arise?

You said consciousness can appear as thoughts that are discordant with its true nature ..how so ? How can it appear as something that seems unaligned with itself? Do you squeeze a lemon expecting orange juice to come out ? Lemon only gives Lemon.  Goodness can only appear as Goodness. Right?  But apparently you said its not nessacarly the case .

[Jonas Long]

Here, this person puts part of it pretty succinctly, and shes a woman if that helps.  Itll be difficult to take this discussion much further without having listened to at least some of the podcast, I feel like

 

[Phil]

34 minutes ago, Someone here said:

You said consciousness can appear as thoughts that are discordant with its true nature ..how so ? How can it appear as something that seems unaligned with itself?

Excellent question! Straight to the heart of the matter. 🙏🏼 

 

That a you said anything is an assumption based on that you are separate (and indirectly therein so do I seem to be to ‘you’.) This is the greater point. 

 

The answer that arises is actually very simple. Perhaps too simple for intellectuals. I create by appearing as.

 

I appear as a sphere (‘world’, ‘universe’) somewhere-sphere, and I appear as a sphere (‘lens’, ‘finite mind’, ‘point of view’) lens-sphere.

 

I can ‘do this’ as I am absolute unbound freedom. Free of beliefs. Free of duality. 

 

As I do, it seems, I overlook or veil myself of my own infinitude and unconditionality. My creation, including of course the thoughts bodies, people and humans, and perception, is unthinkable perfection. Thoughts arise or appear post-sphere, and thus do not pertain to me at all. Im appearing as thought(s), as creation in this way, and I am absolute brilliance. I create my own heaven by being… the spheres. No more than this is necessary, and as I am perfection and my creation is made of only me, there is only perfection. 

 

As I am never other than me, pure freedom, any thoughts can appear as, as if within, of, the lens-sphere. Some thoughts I am appearing as might resonate with me, that which is appearing, and some might not. Anything less would not be pure freedom, and I am pure freedom. 

 

Noteworthy perhaps, I am not an ‘it’. I am not a ‘thing’. I am appearing as so called thoughts, that there are these. 

 

Apparently I overlook that I am infinite via believing discordant thoughts, namely misidentifying. The very evidence I am Good, that I am unconditional, is the discord felt. Suffering. This is how some apparent thoughts feel. This is not how I feel.  

 

The very evidence that I am free, is another more aligned thought can always appear and can be focused upon. The evidence I am The Creator is more of what’s focused upon begets more of what’s focused upon. I am the focus, the creation, and the thoughts. I am Being. Focus is inherent in my vibrating, in my being creation. 

 

At no point whatsoever am I deceptive. As I am free, and infinite, there is no assertion. There is nothing which prevents me, as being focus, from believing the thought that I am deceptive. But the discord is felt, and as it too is made of only me, it creates in kind as well, and dis-ease manifests. 

 

It’s simply that I am infinite and can not, not be, me. 

 

I am not, God. 

 

34 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Do you squeeze a lemon expecting orange juice to come out ? Lemon only gives Lemon.  Goodness can only appear as Goodness. Right?  But apparently you said its not nessacarly the case .

Again, this points to believing, or, thought attachment. I am the truth, infinite, thus I can appear as anything and any thought. The analogy could be extended rather precisely to the two spheres I am being. But both are Good. There isn’t good & bad, only thoughts that there is, and discord felt therein. Two oranges. Or, two lemons. No difference. Yet thought can make it seem so. Beliefs. Thought attachment, as you, The Enlightened One, says. 

[Jonas Long]

There's an obvious double standard present all over this forum wherein the admin or whomever call out  "dualistic" language when it goes against their point, but go right ahead and use it themselves when it helps their own point.  Something to observe. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Jonas Long

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Excellent question! Straight to the heart of the matter. 🙏🏼 

 

That a you said anything is an assumption based on that you are separate (and indirectly therein so do I seem to be to ‘you’.) This is the greater point. 

 

The answer that arises is actually very simple. Perhaps too simple for intellectuals. I create by appearing as.

 

I appear as a sphere (‘world’, ‘universe’) somewhere-sphere, and I appear as a sphere (‘lens’, ‘finite mind’, ‘point of view’) lens-sphere.

 

I can ‘do this’ as I am absolute unbound freedom. Free of beliefs. Free of duality. 

 

As I do, it seems, I overlook or veil myself of my own infinitude and unconditionality. My creation, including of course the thoughts bodies, people and humans, and perception, is unthinkable perfection. Thoughts arise or appear post-sphere, and thus do not pertain to me at all. Im appearing as thought(s), as creation in this way, and I am absolute brilliance. I create my own heaven by being… the spheres. No more than this is necessary, and as I am perfection and my creation is made of only me, there is only perfection. 

 

As I am never other than me, pure freedom, any thoughts can appear as, as if within, of, the lens-sphere. Some thoughts I am appearing as might resonate with me, that which is appearing, and some might not. Anything less would not be pure freedom, and I am pure freedom. 

 

Noteworthy perhaps, I am not an ‘it’. I am not a ‘thing’. I am appearing as so called thoughts, that there are these. 

 

Apparently I overlook that I am infinite via believing discordant thoughts, namely misidentifying. The very evidence I am Good, that I am unconditional, is the discord felt. Suffering. This is how some apparent thoughts feel. This is not how I feel.  

 

The very evidence that I am free, is another more aligned thought can always appear and can be focused upon. The evidence I am The Creator is more of what’s focused upon begets more of what’s focused upon. I am the focus, the creation, and the thoughts. I am Being. Focus is inherent in my vibrating, in my being creation. 

 

At no point whatsoever am I deceptive. As I am free, and infinite, there is no assertion. There is nothing which prevents me, as being focus, from believing the thought that I am deceptive. But the discord is felt, and as it too is made of only me, it creates in kind as well, and dis-ease manifests. 

 

It’s simply that I am infinite and can not, not be, me. 

 

I am not, God. 

 

Again, this points to believing, or, thought attachment. I am the truth, infinite, thus I can appear as anything and any thought. The analogy could be extended rather precisely to the two spheres I am being. But both are Good. There isn’t good & bad, only thoughts that there is, and discord felt therein. Two oranges. Or, two lemons. No difference. Yet thought can make it seem so. Beliefs. Thought attachment, as you, The Enlightened One, says. 

Thank you for the answer . I'm honestly struggling to understand most of it ..but I need to read carefully and reflect. So I will do so and let you know if I have any questions. 

[Orb]

@Jonas Long I think what Mandys essentially trying to say is to not demonize a person, just demonize the ideas/beliefs held by them. Although demonize is a pretty strong sounding word lol.

 

Although im not sure of her opinion on Teal Swan overall. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Orb

[Jonas Long]

5 minutes ago, Orb said:

@Jonas Long I think what Mandys essentially trying to say is to not demonize a person, just demonize the ideas/beliefs held by them. Although demonize is a pretty strong sounding word lol.

 

Although im not sure of her opinion on Teal Swan overall. 

I never demonized anybody. 

[Orb]

Just now, Jonas Long said:

I never demonized anybody. 

A better word is criticize. 

[Jonas Long]

2 minutes ago, Orb said:

A better word is criticize. 

I am criticizing the ideas/beliefs that are a part of the Teal Swan package, the "completion work" she implements.  

[Mandy]

 

23 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

There's an obvious double standard present all over this forum wherein the admin or whomever call out  "dualistic" language when it goes against their point, but go right ahead and use it themselves when it helps their own point.  Something to observe. 

When I don't feel good, and momentum has gotten away from me, I often journal and just write out what I think. It's almost like shaking out a leg if it's fallen asleep and letting it get circulation again. It doesn't feel better right away.  I'll hear a critical voice or something like the superego, and write that out, and then I can hear what Nisargadata calls Guru, and Esther Hicks calls Abraham, and it points out what I've written or said, and the assumptions in it. When I write on the forum I'm doing this for myself, but because it seems to be on behalf of others, I can't force anyone else to "hear" it. The desire to feel better which I've seen and accepted when I sit down to journal has to be there. 

[Orb]

6 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

I am criticizing the ideas/beliefs that are a part of the Teal Swan package, the "completion work" she implements.  

That's cool, just saying I think that's what Mandy meant initially. 

[Jonas Long]

7 minutes ago, Mandy said:

 

When I don't feel good, and momentum has gotten away from me, I often journal and just write out what I think. It's almost like shaking out a leg if it's fallen asleep and letting it get circulation again. It doesn't feel better right away.  I'll hear a critical voice or something like the superego, and write that out, and then I can hear what Nisargadata calls Guru, and Esther Hicks calls Abraham, and it points out what I've written or said, and the assumptions in it. When I write on the forum I'm doing this for myself, but because it seems to be on behalf of others, I can't force anyone else to "hear" it. The desire to feel better which I've seen and accepted when I sit down to journal has to be there. 

I'm not talking about the journal section. 

[Jonas Long]

3 minutes ago, Orb said:

That's cool, just saying I think that's what Mandy meant initially. 

Yeah, I got that. 

[Mandy]

Just now, Jonas Long said:

I'm not talking about the journal section. 

I'm not either. 

[Jonas Long]

4 minutes ago, Mandy said:

I'm not either. 

Is it helpful for me to call out any time you refer to a "separate self"?