The Gateway, Teal Swan, and the message vs the teacher

[Mandy]

4 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Is it helpful for me to call out any time you refer to a "separate self"?

I don't know, are you using logic to tell when this happens, or are you actually feeling, "listening" (as I attempted to describe above) for it? 

[Jonas Long]

6 minutes ago, Mandy said:

I don't know, are you using logic to tell when this happens, or are you actually feeling, "listening" (as I attempted to describe above) for it? 

Whats the difference what my motivation is?  I see you engaging in "separate selfery" and I mention it, is it helpful? 

[Mandy]

Just now, Jonas Long said:

Whats the difference what my motivation is?  I see you engaging in "separate selfery" and I mention it, is it helpful? 

All the difference in the world. 

[Mandy]

I/you/we don't get to be right in exclusion of the other, so if seperate selvery in pointed out in rightness it boomerangs. Alignment or love is not rightness, it's only know directly by how it feels. 

[Jonas Long]

22 minutes ago, Mandy said:

All the difference in the world. 

But my motivation is just a thought.  Does the motivation of the messenger matter more than the message? 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Jonas Long

[Jonas Long]

@Phil have you ever heard this? 

[Phil]

44 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Thank you for the answer . I'm honestly struggling to understand most of it ..but I need to read carefully and reflect. So I will do so and let you know if I have any questions. 

👊🏼 For what’s it’s worth… there is no understanding. Hopefully not taken as argumentative. The spheres are not something / things a Phil understood or understands or ever could understand. Understanding implies something separate which could be understood, and or someone separate which could understand. Broken record perhaps, but it’s this, and arising thoughts about their being someone understanding or something to understand are actually the obscuring of what is so to speak right in front of you, all around you and you.

 

Like  - THIS - full stop. THIS as is. Not a single thought (conceptualization) added. 

 

 

There is ‘somewhere’, yeah? Might be outside, a room, whatever… but there is somewhere, yes?  

That’s a sphere and everything ‘in it’ is appearing, evidenced by there it is right there.

‘Somewhere’ definitly seems to be 360 around you, yes? 

 

Every thing ‘in it’ is just actually a thought arising about there being separate things. Notice the whole. The whole somewhere. Every which way you look, it’s whole, complete. There isn’t nothing “there”, there is ‘somewhere’, whatever that currently appears to be (outside, a room, etc). There are no cracks, no parts, no section which is missing. No discernible seeable end or beginning. Whole. Complete. Perfect. Without exception. All for you. 

 

There is awareness - of  - this ‘somewhere’… outdoors, a room, whatever, yeah? That’s the lens-sphere. The awareness of aspect. Notice peripheral vision is a big circle… yet there is no discernible edge or boundary. No beginning and no end. No division. It’s whole. Complete. No cracks, no parts, no separation. It’s already whole and complete as is. 

 

Dualistic subject object thoughts and self referential thoughts might arise. Contextualizations…  I’m seeing. I’m hearing. I understand. I don’t understand. My room. My eyes. My body. My experience. Etc. No need to do anything about these thoughts, just notice thoughts arise as labels, and visually speaking, look at the wholeness, the undivided ness, the isness. Don’t take it for granted. It could be nothing. But there is This. This is appearing. Rejoice you know!? Celebrate that there is creation! 

 

 

In hopes of striking a chord deep within - seriously - thank you. Jokes aside, This is all because of you. Your infinite limitless selflessness. This ‘somewhere’, universe, creation, is your selflessness. Your sacrifice in allowing this, in being this, comes with initially overlooking your true nature. Peace. Happiness. Perfection. Thank you for that! Thank you! Thank you for this! It has been wonderful, it is miraculous and I could never truly thank you enough. I am truly in awe of you. I am humbled everyday by your mystery and creation. 

[Mandy]

20 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

But my motivation is just a thought. 

Love is not motivation and can't be thought. 

[Jonas Long]

Just now, Mandy said:

Love is not motivation and can't be thought. 

Does the motivation of the messenger matter more than the message itself?  

[Phil]

23 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

@Phil have you ever heard this? 

No. 

[Jonas Long]

Just now, Phil said:

No. 

Didn't think so. 

[Mandy]

6 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Does the motivation of the messenger matter more than the message itself?  

They aren't different, there's no messenger. 

[Phil]

😂♥️

[Jonas Long]

Just now, Mandy said:

They aren't different, there's no messenger. 

So, there's no motivation.  

[Phil]

@Someone here

This might be helpful or insightful. Maybe not today but after ‘sinking in’.  Maybe there’s some relief soon down the road.

 

No experience is “it”. 

 

No psychedelic experience is “it”, because that’s an experience. There is nothing unique about a psychedelic experience in comparison to this ‘experience’ right now. No difference whatsoever. A psychedelic experience is experience, and as far as ‘someone becoming’ (more conscious, more enlightened, etc) this is spiritual ego. The emperor’s new clothes. Just memories arising and thought atatchment / misidentification with experience (appearance). 

[Someone here]

46 minutes ago, Phil said:

👊🏼 For what’s it’s worth… there is no understanding. Hopefully not taken as argumentative. The spheres are not something / things a Phil understood or understands or ever could understand. Understanding implies something separate which could be understood, and or someone separate which could understand. Broken record perhaps, but it’s this, and arising thoughts about their being someone understanding or something to understand are actually the obscuring of what is so to speak right in front of you, all around you and you.

 

Like  - THIS - full stop. THIS as is. Not a single thought (conceptualization) added. 

 

 

There is ‘somewhere’, yeah? Might be outside, a room, whatever… but there is somewhere, yes?  

That’s a sphere and everything ‘in it’ is appearing, evidenced by there it is right there.

‘Somewhere’ definitly seems to be 360 around you, yes? 

 

Every thing ‘in it’ is just actually a thought arising about there being separate things. Notice the whole. The whole somewhere. Every which way you look, it’s whole, complete. There isn’t nothing “there”, there is ‘somewhere’, whatever that currently appears to be (outside, a room, etc). There are no cracks, no parts, no section which is missing. No discernible seeable end or beginning. Whole. Complete. Perfect. Without exception. All for you. 

 

There is awareness - of  - this ‘somewhere’… outdoors, a room, whatever, yeah? That’s the lens-sphere. The awareness of aspect. Notice peripheral vision is a big circle… yet there is no discernible edge or boundary. No beginning and no end. No division. It’s whole. Complete. No cracks, no parts, no separation. It’s already whole and complete as is. 

 

Dualistic subject object thoughts and self referential thoughts might arise. Contextualizations…  I’m seeing. I’m hearing. I understand. I don’t understand. My room. My eyes. My body. My experience. Etc. No need to do anything about these thoughts, just notice thoughts arise as labels, and visually speaking, look at the wholeness, the undivided ness, the isness. Don’t take it for granted. It could be nothing. But there is This. This is appearing. Rejoice you know!? Celebrate that there is creation! 

 

 

In hopes of striking a chord deep within - seriously - thank you. Jokes aside, This is all because of you. Your infinite limitless selflessness. This ‘somewhere’, universe, creation, is your selflessness. Your sacrifice in allowing this, in being this, comes with initially overlooking your true nature. Peace. Happiness. Perfection. Thank you for that! Thank you! Thank you for this! It has been wonderful, it is miraculous and I could never truly thank you enough. I am truly in awe of you. I am humbled everyday by your mystery and creation. 

Brilliant 👏 

I agree 99.99999 %

But why There always is some kind of discord about any modeling of reality whatsoever?  Its like it just is utterly impossible to give it justice or to describe it or grasp it any way .why is that?

Also this is connected to that thread of mine ..Most of the times it results into a surge of negative emotions driving my actions and creating further difficulty.  To give you an idea I looked  at my own experience and started from the very beginning of my inception. I find that  it is  always NOW and HERE as ineffable THIS.

15 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Someone here

This might be helpful or insightful. Maybe not today but after ‘sinking in’.  Maybe there’s some relief soon down the road.

 

No experience is “it”. 

 

No psychedelic experience is “it”, because that’s an experience. There is nothing unique about a psychedelic experience in comparison to this ‘experience’ right now. No difference whatsoever. A psychedelic experience is experience, and as far as ‘someone becoming’ (more conscious, more enlightened, etc) this is spiritual ego. The emperor’s new clothes. Just memories arising and thought atatchment / misidentification with experience (appearance). 

Why are you saying this ? I didn't talk about psychedelics or mystical experiences as far as this thread is concerned. 

[Jonas Long]

3 hours ago, Phil said:

Discussing content vs discussing selves seems to be challenging or have some difficulty around it. Here’s to exemplification. Here is some content, and a counter point, or, an entirely different content. If interested, read both pieces of content below which is the first two minutes of an episode and a quote, contemplate what’s said, and share any comment about the content. Try to reframe from attaching any comments to about a separate self. Possible considerations… what’s is different if anything about the content shared, deception, self-deception, truth of happiness, intentions behind deception, manipulation, misunderstanding, is what’s shared coming from the illusory view of a separate self (not quite the same as there are any) etc. Wide open. 

 

 

“Welcome to the ultimate guide of happiness. It’s time we take a very grounded good look at this idea of happiness and how happiness actually works. Now, I’ve covered this topic in the past but now we’re gonna get real serious, real in depth, real practical.

 

I’ve been studying psychology and philosophy for so long, so deeply, that happiness has become so clear to me… what actually makes people happy and what doesn’t. I’ve experimented with many different things and materialistic pursuits, starting businesses and so fourth that I have quite a bit of experience here that I want to share with you.

 

Even though I have all this understanding of happiness, don’t get this wrong, that doesn’t mean that I’m always happy. In fact the biggest obstacle that I’ve faced with my own happiness is with my health…. Even though that’s the case and that’s been handicapping me and my happiness, even still - I’ve been able to reach levels of happiness that few humans can comprehended.

 

But in this episode I’m not going to get to spiritual with you. We’re going to keep this very grounded. I really wanna help you to set your lifestyle up in a way where you can achieve true happiness and and it’s not about attaining some ultimate Buddahood or something like that. And I can help to avoid many of the common traps that people run into when they try to pursue happiness. … I’m going to give you lists of things that will make you happpy, very concrete things. And I’ll give you lists of things that will not make you happy… that will make it impossible for you to be happy. “

 

Leo Gura

 

 

“Security and happiness cannot be found in anything that comes and goes. Find whatever it is in your experience that doesn't appear, move, change or disappear, and invest your identity, security and happiness in that alone.”

 

 

Rupert Spira

It sounds like you are implying that leo and Spira are two different people? 

[Mandy]

10 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

It sounds like you are implying that leo and Spira are two different people? 

It was a illustration of how different statements seemingly about the same topic hit much differently. Again, comments, beliefs, not the person. 

[Mandy]

1 hour ago, Jonas Long said:

So, there's no motivation.  

There seems to be motivation but only for seperate selves to be better, smarter, more moral, more responsible,  whatever. 

[Jonas Long]

13 minutes ago, Mandy said:

There seems to be motivation but only for seperate selves to be better, smarter, more moral, more responsible,  whatever. 

So it matters what the motivation seems to be?