The Gateway, Teal Swan, and the message vs the teacher

[Jonas Long]

Again, Jesus, fig tree, Jesus himself so the story goes condemned the teachings and the teacher, because they were corrupt.  He cursed the teacher from ever teaching again.  Poisoned roots, poisoned fruit. 

[Jonas Long]

48 minutes ago, Mandy said:

 to be better, smarter, more moral, more responsible,  whatever. 

Just like the "doing it to get more clicks etc." these are total assumptions about the seeming motivation. 

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

But why There always is some kind of discord about any modeling of reality whatsoever? 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Why are you saying this ? I didn't talk about psychedelics or mystical experiences as far as this thread is concerned. 

When a subject matter or topic is experienced and discord arises, an interpretation arose which is related to the topic in some way. The discord or suffering is of the interpretation. The psychedelic experience might have resulted in a discordant interpretation, filed away as a ‘bad trip’. That might be what comes up with the topic of modeling reality. The discord implies something is off in regard to interpretation. You’d have to share more about that though. It’s hard to say. What comes to mind? Also I’m not sure what’s meant by reality and modeling. That might be a big difference. 

 

Why I’m saying it is there might be an untangling of the discord in the interpretation and relief & liberation of the discord / suffering. 

 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

It’s like it just is utterly impossible to give it justice or to describe it or grasp it any way .why is that?

Not sure what’s meant here either. What’s meant by ‘it’? Maybe the ineffable, maybe creation, appearance, not sure. 

Also what’s grasping… ineffable, creation, appearance…?

 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Also this is connected to that thread of mine ..Most of the times it results into a surge of negative emotions driving my actions and creating further difficulty.  To give you an idea I looked  at my own experience and started from the very beginning of my inception. I find that  it is  always NOW and HERE as ineffable THIS.

Negative emotions isn’t very specific. Which emotion? That also ‘tells’ something about how the interpretation is off, as in discordant. 

What’s meant by inception? If it’s always now here… maybe that’s ‘held’ to be more than experience now here. 

 

Overall it might have to do with distinctions between thoughts, thinking, concepts, introspective insights, realizations etc. 

 

 

Same thing…. does one of these quote resonate and not the other? Do both resonate? Neither? Does it bring up any discordant interpretations? 

6 hours ago, Phil said:

Discussing content vs discussing selves seems to be challenging or have some difficulty around it. Here’s to exemplification. Here is some content, and a counter point, or, an entirely different content. If interested, read both pieces of content below which is the first two minutes of an episode and a quote, contemplate what’s said, and share any comment about the content. Try to reframe from attaching any comments to about a separate self. Possible considerations… what’s is different if anything about the content shared, deception, self-deception, truth of happiness, intentions behind deception, manipulation, misunderstanding, is what’s shared coming from the illusory view of a separate self (not quite the same as there are any) etc. Wide open. 

 

 

“Welcome to the ultimate guide of happiness. It’s time we take a very grounded good look at this idea of happiness and how happiness actually works. Now, I’ve covered this topic in the past but now we’re gonna get real serious, real in depth, real practical.

 

I’ve been studying psychology and philosophy for so long, so deeply, that happiness has become so clear to me… what actually makes people happy and what doesn’t. I’ve experimented with many different things and materialistic pursuits, starting businesses and so fourth that I have quite a bit of experience here that I want to share with you.

 

Even though I have all this understanding of happiness, don’t get this wrong, that doesn’t mean that I’m always happy. In fact the biggest obstacle that I’ve faced with my own happiness is with my health…. Even though that’s the case and that’s been handicapping me and my happiness, even still - I’ve been able to reach levels of happiness that few humans can comprehended.

 

But in this episode I’m not going to get to spiritual with you. We’re going to keep this very grounded. I really wanna help you to set your lifestyle up in a way where you can achieve true happiness and and it’s not about attaining some ultimate Buddahood or something like that. And I can help to avoid many of the common traps that people run into when they try to pursue happiness. … I’m going to give you lists of things that will make you happpy, very concrete things. And I’ll give you lists of things that will not make you happy… that will make it impossible for you to be happy. “

 

Leo Gura

 

 

“Security and happiness cannot be found in anything that comes and goes. Find whatever it is in your experience that doesn't appear, move, change or disappear, and invest your identity, security and happiness in that alone.”

 

 

Rupert Spira

 

6 hours ago, Jonas Long said:

Anyone with an active cult who is a living breathing leader of an active cult. that's who I'm talking about.

2 hours ago, Jonas Long said:

It sounds like you are implying that leo and Spira are two different people? 

How so, or what more specifically are you referring to?

 

For the sake of clarity I’m saying people is a thought, not perception. That there’s only one ‘substance’ of reality, and of course not even. 

[Jonas Long]

24 minutes ago, Phil said:

For the sake of clarity I’m saying people is a thought, not perception. That there’s only one ‘substance’ of reality, and of course not even. 

That still wasn't very clear.  People is a thought, perception is not a thought?  People is a thought, people is not perception?  What is the one substance, why isn't it even? 

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Jonas Long

[Phil]

4 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

That still wasn't very clear. 

That’s why I asked for what you’re referring to that I said more specifically.

 

4 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

People is a thought, perception is not a thought?

They’re the same in that they’re both thoughts. They’re different in what they point to. Very much like horse & unicorn. 

 

4 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

  People is a thought, people is not perception? 

Exactly. 

 

4 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

What is the one substance, why isn't it even? 

Being. Because it isn’t something, or something else. Me… and not even. 

[Jonas Long]

My point wasn't that complicated. I think enoughs been said by me.  People can read what I think. 

[Mandy]

2 hours ago, Jonas Long said:

So it matters what the motivation seems to be?

No, motivation is a misunderstanding. Sometimes people use the word motivation when they mean love, focus or passion, but that's not what I mean here, motivation is the willingness to pay for future happiness with misery right now. That doesn't work out. 

 

1 hour ago, Jonas Long said:

Again, Jesus, fig tree, Jesus himself so the story goes condemned the teachings and the teacher, because they were corrupt.  He cursed the teacher from ever teaching again.  Poisoned roots, poisoned fruit. 

I am familiar with those stories but I'm not sure what you're saying here. 

1 hour ago, Jonas Long said:

Just like the "doing it to get more clicks etc." these are total assumptions about the seeming motivation. 

Yeah, that's true, ultimately, you only know for you in the moment. But I think we all sense the difference between a friend reaching out because they are curious about how we are and want to connect and the friend that just joined a MLM company inviting you to a sales of "educational" event. And all the gray areas in between. 

[Jonas Long]

12 minutes ago, Mandy said:

No, motivation is a misunderstanding. Sometimes people use the word motivation when they mean love, focus or passion, but that's not what I mean here, motivation is the willingness to pay for future happiness with misery right now. That doesn't work out. 

 

I am familiar with those stories but I'm not sure what you're saying here. 

Yeah, that's true, ultimately, you only know for you in the moment. But I think we all sense the difference between a friend reaching out because they are curious about how we are and want to connect and the friend that just joined a MLM company inviting you to a sales of "educational" event. And all the gray areas in between. 

But people is thoughts, it's all moot, it doesn't even fucking matter. 

 

I think my point wasn't very complicated and I've said enough about it.  People can read what I think. 

[Jonas Long]

And obviously I'm just being the cynical person we all know me to be, so your assumptions about me are probably legit. 

[Mandy]

Huh. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism_(philosophy) Cynicsm was an actual philosophy? Etymology for the win again. 

 

Questioning stuff is always fun and always productive but assuming you know it's all shit before you can get curious isn't questioning, it's just the emotion of pessimism with no owned desire to move up from it. 

[Orb]

@Mandy cynicism began with Diogenes the cynic, have you heard of his story?

 

He essentially believed humans should live in accord with nature. He would shit in public. Masturbate in public. 

Alexander the great met him one day and asked him what he could do for him, Diogenes asked him to get out of the way because he was blocking his sunlight. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Orb

[Jonas Long]

9 minutes ago, Mandy said:

Huh. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism_(philosophy) Cynicsm was an actual philosophy? Etymology for the win again. 

 

Questioning stuff is always fun and always productive but assuming you know it's all shit before you can get curious isn't questioning, it's just the emotion of pessimism with no owned desire to move up from it. 

I didn't say it was all shit.  That wasn't what this was about.  So much assuming.  Without even listening to the thing I suggested.  Without even really listening to me, because that is something I never said, and I'm not trying to out-anything anyone here.  I don't think I'm more anything than anyone. 

[Jonas Long]

"Cynic" was never my word for myself, I borrowed it from another "thought" here who used it to describe me. 

[Mandy]

@Jonas Long Is pessimism really inaccurate though? 

[Orb]

7 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

"Cynic" was never my word for myself, I borrowed it from another "thought" here who used it to describe me. 

There is no thought.

 

Kidding 😄

Edited September 15, 2023 by Orb

[Jonas Long]

3 minutes ago, Mandy said:

@Jonas Long Is pessimism really inaccurate though? 

Is pessist/optimist in fact a duality? 

[Mandy]

11 minutes ago, Orb said:

@Mandy cynicism began with Diogenes the cynic, have you heard of his story?

 

He essentially believed humans should live in accord with nature. He would shit in public. Masturbate in public. 

Alexander the great met him one day and asked him what he could do for him, Diogenes asked him to get out of the way because he was blocking his sunlight. 

I was just reading the Wikipedia article which was far less colorful but basically the same idea. 

[Jonas Long]

13 minutes ago, Orb said:

@Mandy cynicism began with Diogenes the cynic, have you heard of his story?

 

He essentially believed humans should live in accord with nature. He would shit in public. Masturbate in public. 

Alexander the great met him one day and asked him what he could do for him, Diogenes asked him to get out of the way because he was blocking his sunlight. 

The Louis ck of his day.

[Orb]

1 minute ago, Mandy said:

I was just reading the Wikipedia article which was far less colorful but basically the same idea. 

Yea, I love when source spits out such interesting appearances like Diogenes. He used to live in a giant clay pot that was turned to the side and he put hay in it.

[Orb]

Just now, Jonas Long said:

The Louis ck of his day.

😄😄😄

 

Someone once asked him why he jerked off in public. He replied, " I wish I could make my hunger go away by rubbing my belly"

Edited September 15, 2023 by Orb