Mandy Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Robed Mystic said: There is some deep brainwashing going on here - I think that's the deeper issue. I do not think Phil encourages the people here to think for themselves- and thus- they adapt his mindset out of default. This is wrong and I think it should be corrected. I don't think you've yet familiarized yourself with any of what Phil is really saying or teaching, or Rupert Spira, or Eckhart Tolle or Abraham Hicks, or the Tao, or Rumi, or Louise Hay, or Nisargadatta, or Buddha, or Jesus, or Ramana or any of those for that matter. No one is even saying that you need to stay here, or listen to Phil in particular. Just pick one of those and step away for a while from the same old stuff you've been schooled in for so long and it will be a huge breath of fresh air and reveal what this emptying section is all about, I promise. You're getting into the territory of personal vendettas, attacking/trolling at this point though. Kinda unnecessary and unfortunate. What do you want? What do you reeeeally want? Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robed Mystic Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 23 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: it’s so funny you say this because you should have the opposite opinion. I don’t think you fully see what I try to convey. That’s fine but is what it is. I think you still buy into Solipsism and think of others as a kind of illusion — like pixels on a screen of life. That’s one view that I think Leo indoctrinated a lot of you with. And you guys just run with that and talk amongst yourselves reinforcing each other. I can’t believed he fooled so many of you. I’m trying to help fix the error of that. The Divine Masculine does not need Solipsism or thinking any kind of way in fact. All that is for chasing attainment not attaining itself. I admit I don't like the word Solipsism. But directly speaking- it is the case - and I actually became conscious of it long before Leo ever did - as he poured over hundreds of texts, ancient teachings, and scriptures. And then finally with the rise of quantum mechanics, it became blatantly clear. If you are a student of physics, as I know you must be - then the proof is in the Pudding and of course, it is not , because it requires awakening- ultimately. I can't say whether or not Einstein realized that reality was consciousness in the end - but I think he did. And it mystified him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robed Mystic Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mandy said: I don't think you've yet familiarized yourself with any of what Phil is really saying or teaching, or Rupert Spira, or Eckhart Tolle or Abraham Hicks, or the Tao, or Rumi, or Louise Hay, or Nisargadatta or, or Buddha, or Jesus, or Ramana or any of those for that matter. No one is even saying that you need to stay here, or listen to Phil in particular. Just pick one of those and step away for a while from the same old stuff you've been schooled in for so long and it will be a huge breath of fresh air and reveal what this emptying section is all about, I promise. You're getting into the territory of personal vendettas, attacking/trolling at this point though. Kinda unnecessary and unfortunate. What do you want? What do you reeeeally want? Oh I do. I'm decades older than you and I have studied all of those works. Here - one seems to be immediately indoctrinated into a belief system. Ponder this - is there ever a post where it is encouraged to discover what is true for yourself? Please direct me to that thread. And if there is - it needs to be emphasized on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 Leo’s big teaching right from the source: https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/90302-did-leo-change-his-perspective-on-this-still-confused/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robed Mystic Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: Leo’s big teaching right from the source: https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/90302-did-leo-change-his-perspective-on-this-still-confused/ What does thst have to do with what is true for you,? For example- if oneness isn't something you have become directly conscious of then it is not true. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 8 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said: Oh I do. I'm decades older than you and I have studied all of those works. Mmm... not really decades. 8 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said: Here - one seems to be immediately indoctrinated into a belief system. What's the belief system? Is questioning beliefs a belief system? And how has indoctrination ever been immediate? 8 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said: Ponder this - is there ever a post where it is encouraged to discover what is true for yourself? Uhmm yes. Anything ever written about feeling and emotions, or questioning the self the subject of and whose behalf of the discordant thought is on. Is there any more direct way to really discover what is true for yourself? 8 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said: And if there is - it needs to be emphasized on a regular basis. It IS! You're just overlooking it! Pinned in this section even. Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robed Mystic Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, Mandy said: Mmm... not really decades. I'm 52. Have you broke 40,? 4 minutes ago, Mandy said: What's the belief system? Is questioning beliefs a belief system? And how has indoctrination ever been immediate? it seems that the idea there is no you is burned into one's mind as a religion before they even have the chance to awaken to whether or not is true. This is a travesty in my opinion because by taking this on as a belief the you actually remains. I don't even think the teacher realizes it is happening. There seems to be no emphasis on doing self inquiry, meditation, or psychedelics as tools to help one directly realize whether or not this is the case. It is taken on as reality. There is no waking up to it. You are already awake. Believe it or not, this is far, far more dangerous then actually doing spiritual work because it keeps you from the spiritual work. If it is said here to discover what is true - then as I said before - show me the thread and I will retract my words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said: it seems that the idea there is no you is burned into one's mind as a religion before they even have the chance to awaken to whether or not is true. I absolutely do not believe that there is no me. No one wakes up to the fact that there's not anyone. There is no exclusion. If there are no borders to define me as separate, then the borders that once were there definitely do not remain to define what is not. There never were borders. 4 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said: Believe it or not, this is far, far more dangerous then actually doing spiritual work because it keeps you from the spiritual work. Dangerous for what exactly? What stands to be lost? Feeling that I'm good as I am, loved as I am, divine as I am, "before" really "having" this awakening that then somehow imbues me with honor and worthiness, is dangerous how? How is that not the work? How is questioning the thoughts, seeing the emotions and the guidance of them and being really f-ing honest... thoughts of judgements or opinions from others be damned... how is that not the work? 8 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said: There seems to be no emphasis on doing self inquiry, meditation, or psychedelics as tools to help one directly realize whether or not this is the case. Emphasis as in making people feel like they are idiots or lazy or wrong or handicapped or selfish or biased in whatever way for not doing those things? Is that what we mean by emphasis? Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robed Mystic Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 6 minutes ago, Mandy said: I absolutely do not believe that there is no me. That's good but you have a teacher that keeps saying otherwise without giving his students a chance to think. 10 minutes ago, Mandy said: I Dangerous for what exactly? or opinions from others be damned... how is that not the work? Dangerous because it takes away free thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 @Robed Mystic You checked out the emotional scale, yes? When you are in the emotion of discouragement or hatred or jealousy, can you think... believe... a thought of passionate appreciation? Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robed Mystic Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 1 minute ago, Mandy said: @Robed Mystic You checked out the emotional scale, yes? When you are in the emotion of discouragement or hatred or jealousy, can you think... believe... a thought of passionate appreciation? This is simple deflection. Please address the issues at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 @Robed Mystic It's not deflection, your grievances below hold in place and argue for the validity and importance of thought. 28 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said: That's good but you have a teacher that keeps saying otherwise without giving his students a chance to think. Dangerous because it takes away free thought. If I am holding on tightly to a mug of tea with both hands, I cannot grab a cookie or anything else whatsoever unless I release the mug. In the same way if I believe or think something, I cannot let go of that thought until I release what I'm holding onto. In order to really think, to think a thought that one has never thought before one has to let go of thoughts that they know, that they already hold, is this not already how it is in every moment? If that mug of tea is too hot the feeling indicates to let go, that is what negative emotion indicates about thought. But if I believe my purpose is to hold firmly to this mug, I'm going to suffer, I'm going to entirely ignore emotions and entirely ignore the utter simplicity of what they are indicating. So if I really want to receive a new thought or insight (at thought I've never thought before but that is marked by the feeling) I need to be open to receiving such a thought, the nature of this openness IS no thought. Welcomed with open hands. Haven't you ever received the best idea when your mind was clear, in mediation or relaxed? If I'm feeling the guidance of emotions that feel bad, that's my indicator that what I'm thinking is not open, it's like holding the mug of too hot tea. Is no thought/ and really thinking for oneself really at odds here? Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robed Mystic Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mandy said: @Robed Mystic It's not deflection, your grievances below hold in place and argue for the validity and importance of thought. If I am holding on tightly to a mug of tea with both hands, I cannot grab a cookie or anything else whatsoever unless I release the mug. In the same way if I believe or think something, I cannot let go of that thought until I release what I'm holding onto. In order to really think, to think a thought that one has never thought before one has to let go of thoughts that they know, that they already hold, is this not already how it is in every moment? If that mug of tea is too hot the feeling indicates to let go, that is what negative emotion indicates about thought. But if I believe my purpose is to hold firmly to this mug, I'm going to suffer, I'm going to entirely ignore emotions and entirely ignore the utter simplicity of what they are indicating. So if I really want to receive a new thought or insight (at thought I've never thought before but that is marked by the feeling) I need to be open to receiving such a thought, the nature of this openness IS no thought. Welcomed with open hands. Haven't you ever received the best idea when your mind was clear, in mediation or relaxed? If I'm feeling the guidance of emotions that feel bad, that's my indicator that what I'm thinking is not open, it's like holding the mug of too hot tea. Is no thought/ and really thinking for oneself really at odds here? Ok. I almost was mesmorized because you are so good with words. But...u see - it's not like that with everyone- in fact- it's probably not like that with you. But let me ask you this.. Have you had any spiritual experiences to validate what is being taught here? If so, please explain your spiritual experiences. It's OK - I understand the limits of language. But with those limits tell me - have you validated non-duality? If not, what is your paradigm that you believe in and why? Don't dance around the question- I would appreciate an up front answer. I know you can dance around it - so you will save us both some time if you dont. Edited February 25, 2023 by Robed Mystic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 28 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said: Ok. I almost was memorized because you are so good with words. But...u see - it's not like that with everyone- in fact- it's probably not like that with you. But let me ask you this.. Have you had any spiritual experiences to validate what is being taught here? If so, please explain your spiritual experiences. It's OK - I understand the limits of language. But with those limits tell me - have you validated non-duality? If not, what is your paradigm that you believe in and why? Don't dance around the question- I would appreciate an up front answer. I know you can dance around it - so you will save us both some time if you dont. Call it dancing around if you like, but on a spiritual level, this is along the same lines of appropriateness vibrationally as asking to see someone's genitals to verify their gender. It's really, really not ok, or even relevant at all. I do not have anything to prove or validate, least of all about myself or my worth. If what's being said resonates, it resonates. If you're thinking what's behind them has to be credible or validated, you missed it. What's being said is feeling is always calling those shots, directly. There's no payoff whatsoever in avoiding it. I used to talk about spiritual experiences and almost always it felt really, really off, most of the time like I was trying to relive or prove something or explain something so ineffable, that it seemed so ridiculous... like Mr.Bean trying to redraw Whistler's Mother's face. Occasionally it can be beautiful when someone shares an experience and I enjoy that, but in this context, no. Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robed Mystic Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 12 minutes ago, Mandy said: Call it dancing around if you like, but on a spiritual level, this is along the same lines of appropriateness vibrationally as asking to see someone's genitals to verify their gender. It's really, really not ok, or even relevant at all. I do not have anything to prove or validate, least of all about myself or my worth. I used to talk about spiritual experiences and almost always it felt really, really off, most of the time like I was trying to relive or prove something or explain something so ineffable, that it seemed so ridiculous... like Mr.Bean trying to redraw Whistler's Mother's face. Occasionally it can be beautiful when someone shares an experience and I enjoy that, but in this context, no. I appreciate your candidness. But I'm going to throw you a real curve ball here. There's no you to have an experience. If you haven't realized that there isn't a you, in my estimation you should be very careful not to take the leader of this forums words on faith, even if they are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 😑 This kind of feels like when my 10 year asks me how to spell ICUP. Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loop Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 10 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said: you haven't realized that there isn't a you And who would realize that exactly? 11 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said: I'm going to throw you a real curve ball here. There isn’t even a experience. Ten thousand tears, One Belly Laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Robed Mystic said: What does thst have to do with what is true for you,? For example- if oneness isn't something you have become directly conscious of then it is not true. Period. Leo said this in the thread I posed above: “God cannot be sovereign, omnipotent, or omniscient as long as otherness exists.” Now notice this “cannot be … without”stipulation by Leo. But God doesn’t need that limitation from Leo Gura either! That’s a Kantian argument along the lines of — we must presuppose X to get Y. But if we’re talking about individual sovereignty, why does that presupposition limit God? That implies God is bound to a kind of finite intellectual principle. SOURCEhttps://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/90302-did-leo-change-his-perspective-on-this-still-confused/ Edited February 26, 2023 by Joseph Maynor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Loop said: There isn’t even a experience. Careful you might make someone’s awakening complete on here if one has the ears to hear this. 😍 Edited February 26, 2023 by Joseph Maynor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robed Mystic Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 4 minutes ago, Loop said: And who would realize that exactly? There isn’t even a experience. Not who - what. All there is is experience. That is unborn Being as you put it. Experience doesn't require a self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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