No Self

[Phil]

On 2/20/2023 at 1:40 PM, Robed Mystic said:

Precisely.  There are selves, just as there are illusions.  No self is the seeing through that illusion by self inquiring amd realizing it is an illusion.  Wow!  So enlightening is it not?

 

I thought an illusion was like when I think something’s there which actually isn’t. What do you mean by there are selves just as there are illusions? 

 

On 2/20/2023 at 1:46 PM, solereproduction said:

Yes, how you are asking is better known as reverse psychology in play. Questions follow syllogism means to get those answering cornered by reasonable doubt.  that is simply wrong ways to use power of suggestion.

 Now with message boards organized as they are, you can protest that I am off topic by some exaggerated point, but I never have been off the path of people using greater good intentions against others trying to find out why living doesn't match the realities defining life as existing one reproduction alive at  a time now.

 

the whole concept of "no self" is an intellectual imprisonment of another person's brain to follow a social consensus that won't allow a change of heart, mind, body, soul character reborn out of a child born a replacements to their 4 previous ggeneration people.

 

Genetics add individual sole displacements when conceived by a sequence of life already existed.  Reality captures a soul wishing to become more than equally displaced in plain sight spo reasonable doubts are established to silence anyone capable of revealing what got lost adaptong to a soul's promise to pretend tye cast performances lead to better tomorrows then just adapting in the moment here.

 

 

So you’re saying “no self” is just a concept? Like, I’m tryna realize something here with this “no self” but there isn’t that something basically? Just the concept that there is? I don’t know. Lot of people say there is a “no self realization”. Seem pretty whacky. I’m not sure I get what you’re saying though really. It sounds like a plot script for an episode of Planet of The Apes or something. 

 

On 2/20/2023 at 2:23 PM, DMT Elf said:

lol. I didn't say you're trapped in a prison of forced conformity and I'm not. In fact, I'm quite sure it's the other way around. What's intriguing is that you evidently feel the need to sarcastically respond to things I didn't even say. It's almost like you're trying to put yourself above me by being dishonest. Kinda weird considering that's what you said I was doing earlier in this thread.

I guess the traditional idea of no-self is that you're not any fixed self, and you're simultaneously every self. That makes perfect sense and I have no problem with that understanding. But I'm almost inclined to say I like mine better.

If the absolute nature of reality is mind, and at this point, I can't see how it could be anything else, then we're pretty much free to decide for ourselves what enlightenment is and what no-self means. It's not like anybody is going to fact check you on your understanding of enlightenment. I mean, some people will, but more often than not they're just projecting their own cluelessness. Having said that, truthfulness is the deciding factor, which in this case (risking sounding like a newageer) could be defined as vibrational alignment.

 

lol, thanks.

I must have misunderstood what you were saying then. It’s really ambiguous and hard to understand. I’m not trying to be dishonest, this thread was really more for simple practical tips of realizing “no self” but seems to have spiraled into a lot of unexpected directions. I’m not really looking for enlightenment or realizing everything is a mind or anyone to check anything. I don’t even know what that means or who would check.

 

I’m with ya on the truthfulness though. There’s something about just being honest that’s hard to put a finger on. Like it seems hard but always ends up being way harder if I wasn’t. It does feel like “alignment” whatever that is. Or it just feels good for reason I guess. What I don’t get really though is this “no self”. It seems like it was something but at this point I’m starting to think maybe I believed it was. When I think about where or when I’m going to get it, i don’t know it just seems kinda dumb or pointless. Like there’s no direction to go with it maybe. But yet at the same time I still feel like myself, so this must not be “no self” yet. Now that I mention it, honestly if anything seems like a prison, it’s all this thinking about this stuff. 

 

On 2/20/2023 at 4:50 PM, Kevin said:

Yes maybe the liberating insight of not being a someone is that any judgements about yourself that you believed like being stupid or weak or not enough are just thoughts and are not true about you.

That’s nice but I think that’s one of those things that’s easy to say when you’re not me living my life. No offense but you probably had a way easier upbringing than me. And you probably have better dna or education or something or don’t have to deal with the stuff I have to. I garauntee you that if you were me you’d be angry about a lot of shit too. 

[sacredprofane]

13 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

OK, you win. But I'm you, so, I still win.

While we're on the topic of selves, have you made a decision yet between the neo-advaitan with the big heart and vapid spiritual platitudes and the psychonaut grifter selling narcissist awakening to impressionable youth? And if you haven't yet made a decision, are you at least having fun yet?

do i....have to choose one of those?  i'm having fun watching other people playing those roles i guess

[sacredprofane]

1 minute ago, DMT Elf said:

lol, idk. It was just a funny thought I had.

thoughts are funny

[Kevin]

4 hours ago, Phil said:

That’s nice but I think that’s one of those things that’s easy to say when you’re not me living my life. No offense but you probably had a way easier upbringing than me. And you probably have better dna or education or something or don’t have to deal with the stuff I have to. I garauntee you that if you were me you’d be angry about a lot of shit too. 

Yeah I think that’s the hard thing about this stuff. Sometimes it can be heard and sometimes it can’t be heard. I think it just depends on level of receptivity. For example today what I wrote before doesn’t resonate as much as it did when I wrote it

[solereproduction]

6 hours ago, Phil said:

 

 

So you’re saying “no self” is just a concept? Like, I’m tryna realize something here with this “no self” but there isn’t that something basically? Just the concept that there is? I don’t know. Lot of people say there is a “no self realization”. Seem pretty whacky. I’m not sure I get what you’re saying though really. It sounds like a plot script for an episode of Planet of The Apes or something. 

 

 

there is talk already about punishing me for my honesty on this site, so now I have to bcome extra careful being honest forward.  Intellectual concepts come from comparing past results into statistically averaged outcomes to be used against each added great great grandchild already born to sustain the realities governing outcomes each rotation of the planet here contextually in theories and theologies defining things beyond actually arrived.

 

Now instinctively review exactly what I posted using genetics sustains eternal separation of reproductions occupying space now as total number numbers in each species and ancestral lineages present.

 

Don't use the word self in parables.  Self is a term comparable to sole/unique displacement.

Edited February 22, 2023 by solereproduction
add context to clarify life's specificity to evolving forward now.

[nurthur11]

be the self it feels best to you! @Phil

[Orb]

@Phil the easiest pointer to no self is the breath. In fact the breath points to something that is beyond no self and isn't a something. The breath is never complete, just when it is about to build up there it is blowing back out. In the same way this moment is like a ball of yarn weaving itself into existence yet simulatenously unraveling, never actually being anything, yet being all and none. 

[Orb]

@Phil it goes full circle, the simplest technique is often the best one, focusing on breath, learning from the breath, hearing its secrets. As belief systems crumble away and there is more opening and beauty unveiling, more subtle belief systems will form, then those will crumble. They will keep crumbling until it is seen that the pieces are constantly coming together and crumbling all at once. Not-Two, no division, no no division.

[Phil]

16 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

All good. Apologies for the ambiguity and unexpected directions. I have a habit of doing that.

 

Yes, truthfulness is underrated. One of the lessons DMT taught me is that dishonesty is basically synonymous with stupidity. I used to believe that I needed to lie and manipulate my way through life, and that doing so successfully made me smart. But it's the opposite. Lying and manipulating is the basis of dumbassery. What a revelation that was! And what a relief to realize I don't need to bullshit my way through life. It's almost like I thought I was a bad person and I needed to hide that from people, but, the mind fuck is that I'm actually a good person and there's really no need to pretend otherwise.

This highlights the difference between conceptual vs. actual identity, which I'm pretty sure is what no-self points to. Or maybe I'm wrong. I really don't get it. All I get is whatever conceptual frameworks I've constructed in order to understand my spiritual path. None of it really means anything. And playing with concepts in my head does feel like a prison. When I let all of it go, I feel great and I start thinking about all the cool stuff I could do with my life. I want to teach remotely and move to the West Coast. Maybe go to grad school.. idk. But then I start trying to understand what enlightenment is, and I feel like I have the weight of the world on my shoulders. It sucks, man. It makes me just want to say fuck worrying about enlightenment. But that's why inspect belief vs. gain understanding is an important distinction.

That just felt great. Like refreshing. Made me wonder if that’s what this whole self “no self” thing is really about. Just wanting to be a good person more or less. What you said about inspecting beliefs vs gaining understanding makes a lot of sense. I think I’ve actually been making an obstacle out of this whole endeavor. Like I’m making a second job or something and worrying about it. Like I.m missing out or something. Seems kinda of relieved now, so thanks man.

 

15 hours ago, Kevin said:

Yeah I think that’s the hard thing about this stuff. Sometimes it can be heard and sometimes it can’t be heard. I think it just depends on level of receptivity. For example today what I wrote before doesn’t resonate as much as it did when I wrote it

Yeah I think you’re right. Sometimes like the next day I don’t even remember why I got so angry. But then I end up angry again and forget that or something. It’s like I’m stuck in some stupid pattern or something. 

 

13 hours ago, solereproduction said:

there is talk already about punishing me for my honesty on this site, so now I have to bcome extra careful being honest forward.  Intellectual concepts come from comparing past results into statistically averaged outcomes to be used against each added great great grandchild already born to sustain the realities governing outcomes each rotation of the planet here contextually in theories and theologies defining things beyond actually arrived.

 

Now instinctively review exactly what I posted using genetics sustains eternal separation of reproductions occupying space now as total number numbers in each species and ancestral lineages present.

 

Don't use the word self in parables.  Self is a term comparable to sole/unique displacement.

Sorry I don’t know what any of that is, so it doesn’t seem to mean anything. I’m not a scientist and I don’t even have grandkids. If I was & did what you’re saying would probably be relatable. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with what you’re saying, but I think it’s for a very tiny niche crowd who thinks the same way maybe. 

 

13 hours ago, nurthur11 said:

be the self it feels best to you! @Phil

How do I be the self though? Isn’t “no self” first, like a lower realization that leads to “the infinite self” or like people say, that I’ll (as no self) then reach the higher self?

 

11 hours ago, Orb said:

@Phil the easiest pointer to no self is the breath. In fact the breath points to something that is beyond no self and isn't a something. The breath is never complete, just when it is about to build up there it is blowing back out. In the same way this moment is like a ball of yarn weaving itself into existence yet simulatenously unraveling, never actually being anything, yet being all and none. 

Holy shit that makes a lot of sense. It’s trippy but true, like I never even noticed the breath isn’t ever done. Seems super obvious now, and like, really relieving and funny or something. I feel like that dude in the matrix when the mirror goes right down his throat. I also noticed I think a lot about how like, I’m stuck or don’t have options. But it seems different right now. Right now it actually seems like maybe I do and when I’m thinkin that way it’s juts that I’m thinkin that way, like maybe that isn’t even true. Idk if that makes any sense. 

 

11 hours ago, Orb said:

@Phil it goes full circle, the simplest technique is often the best one, focusing on breath, learning from the breath, hearing its secrets. As belief systems crumble away and there is more opening and beauty unveiling, more subtle belief systems will form, then those will crumble. They will keep crumbling until it is seen that the pieces are constantly coming together and crumbling all at once. Not-Two, no division, no no division.

It’s so weird man, I can’t put a finger on it but as I’m doing that right now, focusing on breathing, I’m feeling relief. This seems related to how I keep getting so angry all the time. I’m gonna try just focusing on breathing today and see what happens. Thanks!

[solereproduction]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

 

Sorry I don’t know what any of that is, so it doesn’t seem to mean anything. I’m not a scientist and I don’t even have grandkids. If I was & did what you’re saying would probably be relatable. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with what you’re saying, but I think it’s for a very tiny niche crowd who thinks the same way maybe. 

 

 

Not trying to be rude, but plausible deniability has its limited times used.  then it becomes a tactic used against someone standing their time being honest about evolving here now.

 

 

Realities don't like being less important than evolving in plain sight.

[Phil]

23 hours ago, solereproduction said:

Not trying to be rude, but plausible deniability has its limited times used.  then it becomes a tactic used against someone standing their time being honest about evolving here now.

 

 

Realities don't like being less important than evolving in plain sight.

I’m not really sure what that means, but got any practical tips on realizing “no self”? 

 

13 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

Clarity. 👍

It’s almost like there’s some kind of connection between feeling & clarity isn’t it?

[solereproduction]

3 hours ago, Phil said:

I’m not really sure what that means, but got any practical tips on realizing “no self”? 

 

 

"no self" is a concept believed where an intellectual mind is part of a person's  brain but it never existed until a supernatural intellect entered one's body.  People want to believe intellect is physical part of evolving and indirectly it is by inductiion creating static charges in the nervous system can work almost instantaneously between actions taken and all the responses given back by everything outside one's flesh.

 

that intellect compares result, intelligence chooses between repeating how actions worked before to changing methods forward for what didn't and repeating what does.

 

Emotions are instinctive reactions between memories and current events never duplicated while operating the same way all the time.

 

Kinetic evolving should never be governed by static ideas promising potential outcomes that defy life is limited to genetics eternally separating active reproductions alive now.

 

truth corrupts honesty. Civil behavior compromising with civic minded people immediately gave away their personal liberty to navigate space evolving forward one at a time.

I figured this out in 1982. Nobody accepts it in 2023 anymore than they did since dawn of civilization.

 

You ignored my tips so far, I won't expect you change your mind after this post.   Your choice.

 

I only explain what caused corruption throughout history evolving changes population of the food chain doesn't exceed now.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by solereproduction
add context to clarify life's specificity to evolving forward now.

[Phil]

2 hours ago, solereproduction said:

"no self" is a concept believed where an intellectual mind is part of a person's  brain but it never existed until a supernatural intellect entered one's body.  People want to believe intellect is physical part of evolving and indirectly it is by inductiion creating static charges in the nervous system can work almost instantaneously between actions taken and all the responses given back by everything outside one's flesh.

 

that intellect compares result, intelligence chooses between repeating how actions worked before to changing methods forward for what didn't and repeating what does.

 

Emotions are instinctive reactions between memories and current events never duplicated while operating the same way all the time.

 

Kinetic evolving should never be governed by static ideas promising potential outcomes that defy life is limited to genetics eternally separating active reproductions alive now.

 

truth corrupts honesty. Civil behavior compromising with civic minded people immediately gave away their personal liberty to navigate space evolving forward one at a time.

I figured this out in 1982. Nobody accepts it in 2023 anymore than they did since dawn of civilization.

 

You ignored my tips so far, I won't expect you change your mind after this post.   Your choice.

 

I only explain what caused corruption throughout history evolving changes population of the food chain doesn't exceed now.

 

 

It just seems confusing. If there’s really “no self” then who’s believing a concept, who wants to believe intellect is this or that, who has a brain, who believes “kinetic energy” (I don’t know what that means) shouldn’t be ignored, by who, and who’s expecting who’s mind changes or not? I don’t get it. If there are practical tips they must’ve went right over my head because it seems like you’re talking about evolution, or science or something. Stuff like “navigate space evolving forward on at a time” really seems like gibberish. Like, it seems like this makes a lot of sense to you but honestly I’m at a loss for what you’re talking about and more so, for how it relates to “no self”. If there were some practical tips somewhere I apologize, they must have went right over my head. 

 

19 minutes ago, DMT Elf said:

Noticing what I feel instead of trying to convince myself that I feel what somebody else thinks I should feel.

I guess so. As far as “no self” though it seems like I’m the self that feels…?

[solereproduction]

21 hours ago, Phil said:

It just seems confusing. If there’s really “no self” then who’s believing a concept, who wants to believe intellect is this or that, who has a brain, who believes “kinetic energy” (I don’t know what that means) shouldn’t be ignored, by who, and who’s expecting who’s mind changes or not? I don’t get it. If there are practical tips they must’ve went right over my head because it seems like you’re talking about evolution, or science or something. Stuff like “navigate space evolving forward on at a time” really seems like gibberish. Like, it seems like this makes a lot of sense to you but honestly I’m at a loss for what you’re talking about and more so, for how it relates to “no self”. If there were some practical tips somewhere I apologize, they must have went right over my head. 

 

ha ha ha ha ha. 

 

Reality or real, comparing charcter role playing against ancestral adapting to space sharing the moment here in series parallel time as conceived to replace one's previous 4 generation gaps lift being alive now forward from here one lifetime at a time now.

 

You catch how there are 8 billion selves each arrived a great great grandchild and evolving into or not 1 of 2 parents, 1 of 4 grandparents, 1 of 8 great grandparents, died and still became 1 of 16 great great grandparents because after birth their DNA moved 3 generations further than their time living.

the great reincarnation, life after death all the metaphors ever attributed to life in plain sight corrupted by illusions of maybe it happens any other way.

 

Reasonable doubt has to be defended until extinction event arrives. Honesty just adapts to self evident evolving.  Evoluiton is a study of changing things compared to cycle event horizons mutually achieved.

hope, faith, charity but power, wealth, fame, leaving mayhem, madness, misery believing living isn't limited to adapting to the moment physiclaly just timed apart now.

Your "no self " fantasy your ideology makes you sacrifice your bilological time to perform as type cast social identity saving tomorrows.

 

It is a great temptation to believe life doesn't limit time to just adapting here now.  Easier to follow consensus than stand against all the humanities here now.  Intellect ideologies micromanaging instinctive awareness doesn't mix well in a brain given all the tools needed in the nucleus of one's fertilized cell..

Edited February 25, 2023 by solereproduction
just adding more info people choose to ignore for their reality's sake.

[Phil]

23 hours ago, solereproduction said:

ha ha ha ha ha. 

 

Reality or real, comparing charcter role playing against ancestral adapting to space sharing the moment here in series parallel time as conceived to replace one's previous 4 generation gaps lift being alive now forward from here one lifetime at a time now.

 

You catch how there are 8 billion selves each arrived a great great grandchild and evolving into or not 1 of 2 parents, 1 of 4 grandparents, 1 of 8 great grandparents, died and still became 1 of 16 great great grandparents because after birth their DNA moved 3 generations further than their time living.

the great reincarnation, life after death all the metaphors ever attributed to life in plain sight corrupted by illusions of maybe it happens any other way.

 

Reasonable doubt has to be defended until extinction event arrives. Honesty just adapts to self evident evolving.  Evoluiton is a study of changing things compared to cycle event horizons mutually achieved.

hope, faith, charity but power, wealth, fame, leaving mayhem, madness, misery believing living isn't limited to adapting to the moment physiclaly just timed apart now.

Your "no self " fantasy your ideology makes you sacrifice your bilological time to perform as type cast social identity saving tomorrows.

 

It is a great temptation to believe life doesn't limit time to just adapting here now.  Easier to follow consensus than stand against all the humanities here now.  Intellect ideologies micromanaging instinctive awareness doesn't mix well in a brain given all the tools needed in the nucleus of one's fertilized cell..

Sorry man, you lost me here. I don’t know what any of that means. It just seems like incoherent rambling. 

 

17 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

I would say it's more like feeling defines authenticity. It points you back to yourself.

Saying "you're the self that feels" seems like it would be more conceptual identity. As if you're some idea of a self that could be separate from feelings. But in actuality, the sense of "I am" can't really be separated from feeling.

I would also say that feeling seems closer to any sense of self-hood than a concept of self ever could.

 

17 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

@Phil I think the problem with "I'm the self that feels" is that it places self concept above feeling, when it should be the other way around.

Self concept doesn't define feeling, feeling defines self concept.

Thanks. That just blew my mind dude. There seems to be a lot of ‘meat on that bone’ and I’m gonna chew on that today. 

[solereproduction]

15 minutes ago, Phil said:

Sorry man, you lost me here. I don’t know what any of that means. It just seems like incoherent rambling. 

 

 

Thanks. That just blew my mind dude. There seems to be a lot of ‘meat on that bone’ and I’m gonna chew on that today. 

it took me 20 years to decipher evolving from evolution theories and spiritual theologies.  Again I was rasied to hoor reasonable doubt like eveyone else has been for 7,000 years. I discovered what humanity hides in plain sight.

Edited February 26, 2023 by solereproduction

[Phil]

6 minutes ago, solereproduction said:

it took me 20 years to decipher evolving from evolution theories and spiritual theologies.  

How’s that relevant to the thread (no self) though? 

[solereproduction]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

How’s that relevant to the thread (no self) though? 

every way evolving works in real timing genetic results adapting to the moment occupying space here now. it covers the entire food chain and doesn't intellectually isolate humans from the rest as humanity does forward academically, artistically, economically, politiclaly, spiritually, per group think, each generation gap pitted against their previous 4 donors of each great great grandchild's arrival changing populaiton forward one at a time.

 

I kinetically connected ancestors being eternally separated as genetically present.

[Phil]

@solereproduction

No idea what was just said there. Seems like a theory or something, but I’ve honestly no idea how it relates to the thread, or topic of ‘no self’. I’m just asking for simple practical tips on realizing ‘no self’. Seems like ‘the one who connected’ would be ‘the self’. 

[James123]

9 hours ago, Devin said:

       What's the difference between the verbal thoughts in your head and the voices and words from others? You ultimately have no control over either.

 

      What's the difference between your thought to do or not do something and someone else doing or not doing something? You have no ultimate control of what thought comes in mind, so it's no different than someone else doing something, you're not your thought, your thought is not yours, your thought is not you, no different than how another person is uncontrolled by you you are uncontrolled by you. So then why do you draw a "self" boundary around your body? You have no control over it ultimately, no different than moving a chair as being controlling the chair.

Where are the thoughts? Could you please show?