No Self

[Phil]

The term ‘no self’ is sometimes used to point to a psychological non-metaphysical realization, and is also sometimes used to point to self-realization, which is of course truly ineffable, but a pointing might be ‘no self, no other’, or infinite, or simply, this. 

But the “metaphysical” or “existential” “biggest picture” isn’t what this thread is about. 

 

The aim of this thread is sharing as specific and detailed of pointings as possible to the recognition of ‘no self’. Not to a self realizing or recognizing there is no self, but pointings to experience; day to day life, body, emotions, interpretations, relationships, work, creating… anything. 

 

Imagine someone who has just set foot on the path-less path, who’s just now heard of nonduality, spirituality, and is just beginning to question & inspect the actuality of their direct experience… with absolutely no frame of reference whatsoever. 

 

What would you point to in the fruitlessly loving attempt to draw attention to that there seems to be a self, but isn’t?

 

Again, the aim is for as specific as possible. 

 

What are ‘clues’?

’Signs’?

 

[Orb]

@Phil Self enquiry, focusing on the I AM sense, focusing on it more and more over time. Asking who is aware and sitting In silence. 

 

But I haven't gone "home" yet so idk just wanted to contribute w something.

[Phil]

@Orb

Great, but I’m looking for more micro specific instances. 

An example might be how the thought ‘I’ll never get all this done’ feels & why. 

Or maybe, ‘how annoyed I get when my sister…’.

Or, ‘I’m experiencing this tension in this certain area’. 

[Orb]

@Phil wish I could contribute, but I'm a bit outta my depth here lol.

[Phil]

@Orb

🙏🏻 

Not depth or deep though, the simplest of ordinary everyday experience. 

[Loop]

Getting lost in a graceful trance when I play an instrument.

Getting lost in nature on a good walk. 
Getting lost in compassion when I feel the suffering going on around the globe.

Getting lost in flow when I practice martial arts.

Getting lost in the eyes of a lover, or a friend, or family.

Getting lost in the Silence of meditation. 
Getting lost in art, in the arms of the Creator.

Getting lost in meditative bliss well doing the dishes, or taking out the garbage, or tidying the house.

 

Love, Loving, Love.

Creator, Creating, Creation.

 

Following the passion, getting lost in it.

What is lost? Something that wasn’t ever there in the first place. 
So was anything ever lost? Was anything ever found?

Who/ what am I? Freedom sinks into its environment.

What is flow? What is thought? What is feeling?

Where do thoughts come from? How do they feel?
Questions are more important then answers.
You have felt this very clearly before, it isn’t autopilot,

Open & Grounded,

no-mind,

and the One Heart.

Heart-Mind.

 

[Lotus]

23 hours ago, Phil said:

What would you point to in the fruitlessly loving attempt to draw attention to that there seems to be a self, but isn’t?

 

Try to find yourself without utilizing thoughts. In the impossibility of it does it become clearer, that self is being constructed by thought - and you, in your essence, are not thought - how could you be something which you observe?

[Eternal]

Understanding that you are perfectly fine as the I am that you already are. Loving yourself as you are, for everything that you do, because that is just who you are. Realize the tension and unease that arises when there is a need to want to go somewhere else outside of who one actually is. Know yourself, look inwards into why suffering arises, look inwards into the experiences of joy and happiness, introspect as to why all of these experiences are so fleeting. 

 

Self inquire into the nature of 'I'. Develop utmost curiosity into the thoughts about oneself which may not be true. 

 

Most importantly.. love yourself.. bring awareness and attention back. Back in the awareness of the background of experience, not over-complicating things and keeping it simple. 

 

There never was a path to begin with because I am already me 🙂

[Phil]

18 hours ago, Loop said:

Getting lost in a graceful trance when I play an instrument.

Getting lost in nature on a good walk. 
Getting lost in compassion when I feel the suffering going on around the globe.

Getting lost in flow when I practice martial arts.

Getting lost in the eyes of a lover, or a friend, or family.

Getting lost in the Silence of meditation. 
Getting lost in art, in the arms of the Creator.

Getting lost in meditative bliss well doing the dishes, or taking out the garbage, or tidying the house.

 

Love, Loving, Love.

Creator, Creating, Creation.

 

Following the passion, getting lost in it.

What is lost? Something that wasn’t ever there in the first place. 
So was anything ever lost? Was anything ever found?

Who/ what am I? Freedom sinks into its environment.

What is flow? What is thought? What is feeling?

Where do thoughts come from? How do they feel?
Questions are more important then answers.
You have felt this very clearly before, it isn’t autopilot,

Open & Grounded,

no-mind,

and the One Heart.

Heart-Mind.

 

That’s great that you’re like that, it really is. I just don’t see how that’s supposed to help me realize there’s “no self”. What you’re saying is overwhelming to me and seems very out there. I don’t think you know how difficult real life is or how hard things are for me. I have the weight of the world on me and what you’re saying just sounds like a bunch of new age philosophies & platitudes. 

 

2 hours ago, Lotus said:

Try to find yourself without utilizing thoughts. In the impossibility of it does it become clearer, that self is being constructed by thought - and you, in your essence, are not thought - how could you be something which you observe?

Well I just look in the mirror I guess 🤷‍♀️. I do try sometimes. You’re really nice to comment and try to help, but really I’m not into zen stuff or Buddhism and I don’t see how that’s supposed to result in me realizing there’s “no self” anyways. If there’s no self, who do you think is going to work everyday? Do your bills just magically pay themselves? Are you all breatharians or something?

 

2 hours ago, Eternal said:

Understanding that you are perfectly fine as the I am that you already are. Loving yourself as you are, for everything that you do, because that is just who you are. Realize the tension and unease that arises when there is a need to want to go somewhere else outside of who one actually is. Know yourself, look inwards into why suffering arises, look inwards into the experiences of joy and happiness, introspect as to why all of these experiences are so fleeting. 

 

Self inquire into the nature of 'I'. Develop utmost curiosity into the thoughts about oneself which may not be true. 

 

Most importantly.. love yourself.. bring awareness and attention back. Back in the awareness of the background of experience, not over-complicating things and keeping it simple. 

 

There never was a path to begin with because I am already me 🙂

Yeah that’s the thing though, I don’t understand that. I don’t have a clue how to love myself. I’m asking how I can realize there’s no self and you’re telling me to love myself. What you said about the tension makes some sense though I guess. But it doesn’t “arise” because I “want to go somewhere”, I don’t want to go somewhere. Every morning I have to get up at 5am and go to work. I don’t have the time to look into why suffering arises. I don’t have a clue what you mean by experiences are so fleeting. No offense, but you really don’t get it. My life’s going by and I have a million responsibilities. I’m asking how am I supposed to realize there’s no self  and you’re telling me to “self inquire”, and saying I’m complicating things. 

[Robed Mystic]

On 1/26/2023 at 10:02 AM, Phil said:

The term ‘no self’ is sometimes used to point to a psychological non-metaphysical realization, and is also sometimes used to point to self-realization, which is of course truly ineffable, but a pointing might be ‘no self, no other’, or infinite, or simply, this. 

But the “metaphysical” or “existential” “biggest picture” isn’t what this thread is about. 

 

The aim of this thread is sharing as specific and detailed of pointings as possible to the recognition of ‘no self’. Not to a self realizing or recognizing there is no self, but pointings to experience; day to day life, body, emotions, interpretations, relationships, work, creating… anything. 

 

Imagine someone who has just set foot on the path-less path, who’s just now heard of nonduality, spirituality, and is just beginning to question & inspect the actuality of their direct experience… with absolutely no frame of reference whatsoever. 

 

What would you point to in the fruitlessly loving attempt to draw attention to that there seems to be a self, but isn’t?

 

Again, the aim is for as specific as possible. 

 

What are ‘clues’?

’Signs’?

 

It is about wonder.  It is about curiosity.  What am i?  Am I an entity somewhere behind the eyes or is this entity in fact a concept?   To me self inquiring is one of the most beautiful aspects of reality.   To not know one's self is to recreate the wonder.  

Edited January 27, 2023 by Robed Mystic

[Phil]

14 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

It is about wonder.  It is about curiosity.  What am i?  Am I an entity somewhere behind the eyes or is this entity in fact a concept?   To me self inquiring is one of the most beautiful aspects of reality.   To not know one's self is to recreate the wonder.  

Must be nice. For me’s it’s about wondering how I’m gonna pay the bills and being curious about how I’ll afford to eat next week. I’m asking how to realize there’s “no self” and you’re telling me one has a self but isn’t supposed to know it to “recreate wonder”.  This really doesn’t help me at all. 

[Robed Mystic]

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

Must be nice. For me’s it’s about wondering how I’m gonna pay the bills and being curious about how I’ll afford to eat next week. I’m asking how to realize there’s “no self” and you’re telling me one has a self but isn’t supposed to know it to “recreate wonder”.  This really doesn’t help me at all. 

Then I gather I am missing the boat here.  Please clarify.   You already stated that the answer is ineffable.   In which you are correct.  So you wanted the source.  I gave you the source. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Robed Mystic

[Orb]

I would say to simply sit down for 10 mins - an hour and notice that all things arising keep arising even though there's no effort being exerted. And to lean into that more and more. Each time seeing that all things arise with no effort. Relaxing into the resistance. If you do it just once you'll see it. 

[Robed Mystic]

2 minutes ago, Orb said:

I would say to simply sit down for 10 mins - an hour and notice that all things arising keep arising even though there's no effort being exerted. And to lean into that more and more. Each time seeing that all things arise with no effort. Relaxing into the resistance. If you do it just once you'll see it. 

Its not that simple unfortunately.   You have to really want to know what you are.  Have you inquired into what you are?  Because when and if you truly do God will be waiting. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Robed Mystic

[Orb]

1 minute ago, Robed Mystic said:

Its not that simple unfortunately.   You have to really want to know what you are.  Have you inquired into what you are?  Because when if you truly do God will be waiting. 

This is just another thought arising, in meditation it just passes by. 

[Robed Mystic]

6 minutes ago, Orb said:

This is just another thought arising, in meditation it just passes by. 

That is the start yes.  Watch the thoughts come and go.  

[Orb]

@Robed Mystic if that is the start, what is the end? What will happen? Is God waiting to be found?

[Loop]

25 minutes ago, Phil said:

I just don’t see how that’s supposed to help me realize there’s “no self”.

Help who? Realize what? 
If you already have an idea that there is something to realize, that idea will veil what is already so. Really just saying to be open & grounded in noticing/ feeling, and see what is being seen, hear what is being heard, & feel what is being felt. 
 

31 minutes ago, Phil said:

What you’re saying is overwhelming to me and seems very out there. I don’t think you know how difficult real life is or how hard things are for me. I have the weight of the world on me and what you’re saying just sounds like a bunch of new age philosophies & platitudes. 

 

Find little spots in your day where you can just take a few breaths and notice, no matter how busy you seem to be, I am sure there is some space you can find. 

 

Notice & feeling, rather than thinking & conceptualizing is where more breath is in a sense, breath/ space from the weight of the world on your chest. Notice thoughts come and go, yet you still are. What is that that doesn’t move with the thinking?

Notice the thought about making dinner is very much different from the actuality of making dinner. 
 

[Robed Mystic]

50 minutes ago, Orb said:

@Robed Mystic if that is the start, what is the end? What will happen? Is God waiting to be found?

Like a wind.  The God Wind.  It will blow through you.  That is, if you have realized no self. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Robed Mystic

[Mandy]

10 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

Like a wind.  The God Wind.  It will blow through you.  That is, if you have realized no self. 

Oh!!! I thought those were just all the beans I ate because I'm poor.