Actualized.org was SO discordant

[Loop]

@Winter

 

Distinction is like the building blocks of concepts. You could say dualities is synonymous. I feel concepts are born out of there. There are really no distinction, not even between pain & pleasure, but you can notice that and still be in repression. Saying trauma is conceptual is essentially putting thinking first, & possibly bypassing/ repressing it.

 

It is emotional. 
All pain is psychic pain. 

Guidance has no distinction at all. 

 

[Winter]

2 minutes ago, Loop said:

@Winter

 

Distinction is like the building blocks of concepts. You could say dualities is synonymous. I feel concepts are born out of there. There are really no distinction, not even between pain & pleasure, but you can notice that and still be in repression. Saying trauma is conceptual is essentially putting thinking first, & possibly bypassing/ repressing it.

 

It is emotional. 
All pain is psychic pain. 

Guidance has no distinction at all. 

 

I see well I make no distinction between concepts and distinctions personally. Sorry to hear this disagreement was only a difference in language. So you agree the trauma is a distinction and there is in reality no such thing as trauma other than the distinction the mind might make of it?

 

Do you also agree that You, Consciousness, God are all exactly the same as Guidance with no distinction or anything else separating them? e.g. There is no "you" separate from the guidance that must listen to it. Guidance is a fancy word to mean "not worrying about stuff".

Edited December 22, 2022 by Winter

[Loop]

15 minutes ago, Winter said:

I see well I make no distinction between concepts and distinctions personally. Sorry to hear this disagreement was only a difference in language. So you agree the trauma is a distinction and there is in reality no such thing as trauma other than the distinction the mind might make of it?

What mind? There is only Feeling.

Honestly, the concept & projection of the mind is repression, hiding up in ‘mental space’ not waiting to feel Grace.

Not wanting to feel Guidance. 

 

15 minutes ago, Winter said:

Do you also agree that You, Consciousness, God are all exactly the same as Guidance with no distinction or anything else separating them? e.g. There is no "you" separate from the guidance that must listen to it. Guidance is a fancy word to mean "not worrying about stuff".

There isn’t a single thing at all,

But that will never help you with the fall,

Down from mental space,

Both feet planted ends the race.

We are all in this together,

So much so there is no one to show, 

Nothing to connect with,

Endless Friendship. 
 

There is no must,

It is already,

L I S T E N,

You are already guiding yourself. 
Of course there was never both. 

If we bump into a smack,

I’ll ask you kindly not to wack,

As there is no difference between the two, 

Never was a me & you. 
 

[Winter]

Just now, Loop said:

What mind? There is only Feeling.

Honestly, the concept & projection of the mind is repression, hiding up in ‘mental space’ not waiting to feel Grace.

Not wanting to feel Guidance.

Who is hiding? I thought there was only feeling, but now there is the concept of someone who doesn't want guidance?

 

Just now, Loop said:

There isn’t a single thing at all,

But that will never help you with the fall,

Down from mental space,

Both feet planted ends the race.

We are all in this together,

So much so there is no one to show, 

Nothing to connect with,

Endless Friendship. 
 

There is no must,

It is already,

L I S T E N,

You are already guiding yourself. 
Of course there was never both. 

If we bump into a smack,

I’ll ask you kindly not to wack,

As there is no difference between the two, 

Never was a me & you.

Who needs to L I S T E N ? There's need to be two to have the action of listening. A listener and a "guidance". When all is one there is nothing to listen to and no need for a source of guidance either. You are already where you want to be, no need to be guided anywhere. 🙂

[Loop]

Just now, Winter said:

Who is hiding? I thought there was only feeling, but now there is the concept of someone who doesn't want guidance?

Did I ever mention a who? There is just the feeling of discordance towards Guidance, then there is accordance with the discordance ☺️, then it isn’t discordance anymore. 
 

3 minutes ago, Winter said:

Who needs to L I S T E N ? There's need to be two to have the action of listening. A listener and a "guidance". When all is one there is nothing to listen to and no need for a source of guidance either. You are already where you want to be, no need to be guided anywhere. 🙂

That there needs to be two is an assumption, based off believing this is a physical experience with subjects & objects. 

No one is being guided anywhere, there is just Emotional Guidance, there isn’t even a here to be, that is still some sense of solidity. 
 

[Blessed2]

4 hours ago, Winter said:

I'm not saying I know better than you. My honest reaction to this thread is: "Hey that's messed up what's happening here. Constantly putting Leo back into your mind just to hate on him seems unhealthy." My goal is not to try to convince you to change, but just to let you know this is my honest reaction. What you do from this, whether you choose to introspect or not is up to you.

 

Why did you not start this conversation with those words then? Why the sarcastic, judgemental tone?

 

Do you give yourself space to vent when you feel like it? Or do you rationalize and conceptualize it under the rug the way you're talking in this thread? That's why I said "who gives a shit?", cause judgement and shame often keeps us from expressing freely. I don't really give a crap whether my post about the weed was a "correct way to heal" or not, I just felt like doing it for whatever reason. Probably wouldn't post it now, cause introspection etc. followed.

 

I feel like you're sort of enabling here. Actualized forum used to be constant judgement, shaming, belittling etc. And when you pointed it out or got fed up with it, that was met with judgement, shaming, belittling too. Nothing is ever good enough for judgement anyway, so who gives a shit?

[Winter]

Just now, Loop said:

Did I ever mention a who? There is just the feeling of discordance towards Guidance, then there is accordance with the discordance ☺️, then it isn’t discordance anymore.

That's already two! Whatever is being discordant with guidance is the "who". Or even the discordance itself.

 

Just now, Loop said:

That there needs to be two is an assumption, based off believing this is a physical experience with subjects & objects. 

 

No one is being guided anywhere, there is just Emotional Guidance, there isn’t even a here to be, that is still some sense of solidity.

No it's based off the word "listen" which is the language you use. Listen already has a meaning which requires the existence of 2. Guidance does too with the concept of being guided. Absolute infinity is kind of precise though. Must a matter of preference to be honest, you are free to use the words you want to describe no-concept 🙂

[Winter]

Just now, Blessed2 said:

Why did you not start this conversation with those words then? Why the sarcastic, judgemental tone?

I was only trying to mirror the vibe here and illustrate how it felt to read this thread. I think sarcasm can be an effective way to communicate things sometimes. I was not looking to explain anything, just make a quick point. But then we started a non duality war over it, for that, I plead guilty.

 

1 minute ago, Blessed2 said:

Do you give yourself space to vent when you feel like it? Or do you rationalize and conceptualize it under the rug the way you're talking in this thread? That's why I said "who gives a shit?", cause judgement and shame often keeps us from expressing freely. I don't really give a crap whether my post about the weed was a "correct way to heal" or not, I just felt like doing it for whatever reason. Probably wouldn't post it now, cause introspection etc. followed.

 

I feel like you're sort of enabling here. Actualized forum used to be constant judgement, shaming, belittling etc. And when you pointed it out or got fed up with it, that was met with judgement, shaming, belittling too. Nothing is ever good enough for judgement anyway, so who gives a shit?

As I said I got no issue against venting. The only criticism I made is from going out of your way to look at what Leo is doing just to shit on him. I simply expressed my opinion about how I feel in regards to that. I don't care what you do with my opinion, that's up to you.

 

[Loop]

22 minutes ago, Winter said:

That's already two! Whatever is being discordant with guidance is the "who". Or even the discordance itself.

Nope, that is an assumption, there is just Feeling. There isn’t anyone experiencing anything.

The particle is the wave & the wave is the particle.

There really isn’t either.

When identified as an observer this can easily be missed.

 

22 minutes ago, Winter said:

No it's based off the word "listen" which is the language you use. Listen already has a meaning which requires the existence of 2. Guidance does too with the concept of being guided. Absolute infinity is kind of precise though. Must a matter of preference to be honest, you are free to use the words you want to describe no-concept 🙂

A lot of the words we use are filled with assumptions. Don’t get so attached to definitions, look. 
Much thinking, much defining, trying to find the most precise definition/ concept of what no-concept is 😂

 

Love 🙏

 

This was a good conversation, thanks ☺️

 

[Winter]

Just now, Loop said:

Nope, that is an assumption, there is just Feeling. There isn’t anyone experiencing anything.

The particle is the wave & the wave is the particle.

There really isn’t either.

When identified as an observer this can easily be missed.

Then there is no such thing as discordance 🙂

 

Just now, Loop said:

A lot of the words we use are filled with assumptions. Don’t get so attached to definitions, look. 

Much thinking, much defining, trying to find the most precise definition/ concept of what no-concept is 😂

 

Love 🙏

 

This was a good conversation, thanks ☺️

You don't need to look far to find no-concept 😂 Good definitions are key to good communication though, it's silly to debate whether trauma is a concept when we don't agree on what a concept is 😁

 

Much love to you too.

[Loop]

7 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

Sometimes it's fun and interesting to go back and look at it again, sometimes it's a bit scary, sometimes triggering. But it's all good really, step by step I feel more liberated.

Awesome, yeah I understand completely, sometimes I feel like I gotta go back there just to remind myself what it was like. I get good insights into how people get lost on their way Home from looking at stuff over there. 
 

7 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

The Forgiveness method shared in ACIM seems to be quite helpful whenever anything trembles the peace of mind. For me it's like a three-step thing:

 

1. "I am not really here / this is a dream / none of this never actually happens"

 

2. "I forgive myself for dreaming this up / everything and everyone in this world is innocent / I forgive myself, the dream and the world"

 

3. "There has never been separation / I am not separate"

Nice, sounds like a useful process to go through. It seems the first one would detach you from the seeming experience, takes away sense of someone who did something. Then forgiveness & innocence can be seen easier. Then you integrate by noticing no separation. 🫶

 

[Phil]

20 hours ago, Winter said:

I was only trying to mirror the vibe here and illustrate how it felt to read this thread. I think sarcasm can be an effective way to communicate things sometimes.

What’s “mirror the vibe” mean?

 

Sarcasm

A cutting, often ironic remark intended to express contempt or ridicule.

A form of wit characterized by the use of such remarks.

A biting taunt or gibe, or the use of such a taunt; a bitter, cutting expression; a satirical remark or expression, uttered with scorn or contempt; in rhetoric, a form of irony; bitter irony.

 

How exactly is sarcasm effective?

[Winter]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

What’s “mirror the vibe” mean?

Express what was felt reading this thread.

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

How exactly is sarcasm effective?

You judge 🙂

Edited December 23, 2022 by Winter

[Phil]

@Winter

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

 

 

[Loop]

@Phil

 

I was waiting for that one 😂🤣

 

[Winter]

Just now, Phil said:

@Winter

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

Yes. Unless the tree is in a vacuum, there's no way for an object to move without displacing air, and by definition sound is air displacement. Doesn't mean the sound exists (specifically if you imply a notion of existence which is "inside consciousness"). But as far as "making" a sound goes, the physical process you are theorizing about does "make" a sound, from our definition of sound and from our definition of falling.

 

Saying things like "nothing exists out of consciousness" is fine too, if you decide to define existence in that specific way. You could ask instead "do sounds exist if they are not heard" to which the answer depends on your notion of existence.

[Phil]

@Loop

🙂

[Loop]

Growing up I experienced a lot of sarcasm. I’m really starting to see that it was all essentially criticism hiding in plain sight, usually passed off as just a joke. Never tasted right, drinking gasoline. 

 

 🍺 get drunk on Love!

 

[Orb]

@Phil to be fair, I have seen you use sarcasm in this forum before. 

[Phil]

3 minutes ago, Orb said:

@Phil to be fair, I have seen you use sarcasm in this forum before. 

How effective was it?