My thoughts of Leo and actualize.org. What do you think?

[Iesu]

6 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said:

For every action an equal reaction...leo has done more than his fair share of straight up trashing.  Whether it's women, his followers, or human beings in general....he's got everything in this thread and more coming to him. 

+1 

Last message to leo was karmas a bitch 

[Aware Wolf]

19 hours ago, bardh said:

I didn't know what to do with my time, so I checked out Leo Gura video. I watched only from these time stamps 1 hr 46 m to 1 hr 58 min. For my opinion he is speaking basic common knowledge bundled up with completely irrational thoughts. When I see the positive comments - it is actually weird how in 21 century  people are this fucking stupid. Its 12 minutes go and watch it. 

 

He says and I try to quote him here: we are entangled in language and this presents an enormous epistemic challenge and then he says even metaphysical ones because metaphysic is tied with epistemology. Then he continue to say the problem with language it is that it is relative,  even his notion of Jesus is different than everybody else. Literally every people in the planet has a different idea of what every word means...Then he ends up talking about how we can condition children to call everything energy and why do we think that wanting to fuck a goat is bad.

 

He even says: your idea of the chicken is not the same as my idea of the chicken then the interviewer replies, man I really thought what a chicken is but i had no idea what you thought a chicken is.   

 

A chicken is 🐔pok pok, hellooo?

 

 

He does not make any sense at all, and if I focus on the ideas that he is trying to get across some of them make sense to some degree. Still most of them super cheap epistemology. They interviewer said we need a new word for what Leo Gura calls love(infinite consciousness) but Leo Gura insist in calling everything love.  This in itself is the fcking end of epistemology.

 

What even worse is that I believe he truly beliefs he is on to something(w/e the saying is).

 

 

 

@Lester Retsel

 

Good catch. 

 

Agree. Ya. Confused. I pity the interviewer. i wouldn't have the patience. 

 

 

[Aware Wolf]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

It's also kind underhanded to have this kind of discussion without Leo being able to respond.  I understand there are 2 lengthy threads on Actualized that do this to Phil (Nahm) too.  But one of the most fundamental principles of good faith communication is to give the person being complained about (1) notice of the complaint and (2) an ability to be heard in response (3) in a fair proceeding.

 

 

Leo Gura is a public figure. This is a forum. It's not a New York Times article that requires sources and vetting. One of the prime movers in taking Keith Raniere of NXIVM to justice was a  tabloid style website called the Frank Report by someone who had a grudge against Raniere. If someone posts here about Charles Manson and Heaven's Gate -- it would be ridiculous to adhere to good faith communication and some overly liberal view of fairness. "Some people say Charles Manson was a devil -- other's say he's literally Man's Son. Maybe the Truth is somewhere in between. What is Truth?" Are we being fair to Charles Manson and Marshall Applewhite?  /s 

 

Who cares? 

 

What's been interesting to me is the number of people who Leo has adversely affected. This thread has been useful for this and letting people vent and also to put Leo's teachings and actions under the microscope. 

 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, Tarak said:

As far as I understand this thread is not a court case, but more like a express-your-frustrations-about-the-whole-situation thread. I'd dare to say that 80-90% of the messages so far were quite well substantiated and not just trashing on Leo (I even asked to send him love), but off course, there will always be some that have strong emotions and need to vent it. I don't think this thread is unfair, and I think this thread is needed for quite a bit of people to give it all a place.

Not sure if it translates well to English, but here we have a saying: "high trees catch a lot of wind". And as Orb said: once everything is ventilated, this thread will die out.
 

 

I know.  I'm just trying to right something that I think is out of balance.  I'm not sure how much this drama benefits us though.  We'll have to wait and see.  It's an intuition/feeling that I have that may not express itself wholly in concepts or words or whatever.   But, it's a feeling that we're not doing right.  We're not taking right action ourselves.  We can't criticize someone for taking wrong actions if we're doing this too.  This is the whole @Cupcake issue.  And we're doing it too.  This goes deeper than most are able to see.  We're looking for a ledge to stand on, but there's never going to be one the way we're approaching this.  The way out of this is something -- obviously -- none of us see at present.  It's the blind leading the blind; not just here but also there.  We're no better than @Cupcake.  We're doing what she's doing but at least she has the guts to be honest about it.  That's noble and straightforward, and she's honorable in that way.  She's not hiding like so many of us are.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Joseph Maynor

[Aware Wolf]

@Joseph Maynor Fairness for what purpose ? 

 

If Leo Gura was on trail, and I was on the jury for let's say his contributing to suicide -- I would try my utmost to be fair. If I was writing a case study of Actualized and Leo, I might endeavor to be fair and 100% accurate as I could. I'd ask Leo if he wanted to give input. 

 

However, if I was writing a personal review of Leo Gura and Actualized, I'd feel free to vent and express my opinion. I might call Leo a pseudo-intellectual and chucklefuck and his followers simps. 

 

It's not the blind leading the blind to criticize Leo. People have written of their experience and their opinion. Am I blind for pointing out Leo's errors? Am I blind for saying Leo often authoratively lectures on subjects he knows little about and are outside his wheelhouse? Am I blind for posting Leo's obnoxious remarks on Pickup & women and how women smell like fish? I don't see it that way. 

 

If someone posts something about myriad issues on a forum, I'm not concerned with 100% fairness at all. It's an opportunity to opinionize in an informal way. Are movie reviews "fair"? What would a "fair" movie review even look like? What's wrong with someone expressing whether they liked the movie or not? Red Letter Media does some hilarious reviews where they roast movies and series. Is it fair? That's the wrong question to ask. It's not designed to be fair. Leo, like a movie, is fair game, it's not required for the movie producers and directors to be given a chance to respond. 

 

Finally, if this thread isn't to your liking, perhaps look elsewhere. Seriously, why waste your time? If it's done for you, it's done. 

[Joseph Maynor]

@Aware Wolf  I know right now for whatever reason you don't want to hear my message, but maybe one day you will.  Be compassionate.  We're not being fair in this thread.  I will fight for fairness if I'm provoked - you'll watch me.  I'll make a series of 3 hour YouTube videos on this sh*t.  I'm not going to stand for people being bullied on my watch.  Folks, stop abusing people.  It ain't right!  Check yourself!  Face your own unhappiness instead of blaming Leo Gura for your troubles.  I'm gonna fight for what I think is right, I don't care who you are.  My life is based on taking right action as I see it.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Joseph Maynor

[Iesu]

[Aware Wolf]

27 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

@Aware Wolf  I know right now for whatever reason you don't want to hear my message, but maybe one day you will.  Be compassionate.  We're not being fair in this thread.  I will fight for fairness if I'm provoked - you'll watch me.  I'll make a series of 3 hour YouTube videos on this sh*t.  I'm not going to stand for people being bullied on my watch.  Folks, stop abusing people.  It ain't right!  Check yourself!  Face your own unhappiness instead of blaming Leo Gura for your troubles.  I'm gonna fight for what I think is right, I don't care who you are.  My life is based on taking right action as I see it.

 

I like you and I like what you have to say.

My POV Is that we're not required to be compassionate all the time in all situations. Should we as Leo Gura demands, love Hitler? I don't see it. If someone is delusional -- are we not allowed to call this out? Is there a place for whistleblowers? The people who called out gurus and teachers for bad behavior are heroes  -- why should you put the fault on them for not being completely "fair". Jeezus. Hitler did build the autobahns, I hear ya. 

 

The Internet is a huge marketplace of ideas and opinions. Maybe some are more concerned with Truth than compassion. Maybe some are more concerned with telling a good story. But good luck in your fight to bring compassion to those like Leo Gura, who doesn't really need it, and if you asked him about your support, if he answered you at all, would probably laugh. There's a ton of work for you on this, last I checked, Twitter, Facebook, and Reddit and most social media are critical, which for you seems to mean, unfair and not being compassionate. 

 

You like philosophy and I am reminded of Karl Popper who spoke of the benefits of criticism and an open society. Authoritarian regimes limit criticism. And so there's little opportunity to self-correct. If we insult the dictator, we're not being fair are we? Are we being compassionate to criticize Putin? Hmm. 

[Faith]

6 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Folks, stop abusing people. 

I think many ppl just were venting normal forum complaints in this thread, issues with the teachings or about being banned, then a few ppl had much deeper, darker grievances, it happens. 

 

Leo could potentially come here and defend himself, if he wanted, but he's an internet guru and I'm thinking it doesn't bother him as much as you think. He has ppl complain about him all the time. You have to develop a relatively thick skin after years of being on youtube and admin of the forum I would imagine.

 

Anyways, I wish Leo well and even though I disagree with him on certain things (including how he demoted Phil) and think he talks crudely at times. He did make me a mod and I did defend him alot when I was a mod. So, I don't really have ill will towards the guy. Also, one time I was having a rough time and he was overly nice to me. I won't forget that. 

 

For 5 years I have wished Leo Happy Birthday on Actualized. Since I'm banned I won't be able to on there, but it's Leo's birthday tomorrow 4/24. 

 

So, Happy birthday Leo! 🎂 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jonas Long]

5 minutes ago, Faith said:

 

 

So, Happy birthday Leo! 🎂 

 

 

 

 

 

He says himself he was never born, so it seems weird to wish him a happy birthday.

Especially weird since he banned you from his forum. 

Kinda sounds like you are being an apologist for someone who was not kind to you 

Especially when you say, "one time he was overly nice"

Wtf is "overly nice"?

Nobody says that

Unless they're being an apologist.  Like, by contrast, he had been, regularly, "overly mean" for example. 

Of course leo is a Taurus.  Geez

Even his name is a lie.  Lol.

[Faith]

@Lester Retsel There's a rumor you are his brother? Is that true? Just curious 

 

Anyways, you seem to hate him, so I won't respond to your comments. Except to say, hopefully one day you will.... let it go. 

[Jonas Long]

2 minutes ago, Faith said:

@Lester Retsel There's a rumor you are his brother? Is that true? Just curious 

 

Anyways, you seem to hate him, so I won't respond to your comments. Except to say, hopefully one day you will.... let it go. 

You asked me a question and then say you won't respond to my comments...mmmkay

And yes, I'm his brother.  As I have said. We are twins.  Same mother, different dads.  

[Orb]

@Lester Retsel what the hell? Lol

 

How can you be twins with different dads lol. 

 

 

[Jonas Long]

2 minutes ago, Orb said:

@Lester Retsel what the hell? Lol

 

How can you be twins with different dads lol. 

 

 

The answer is in line with the question.

[Jonas Long]

I never used the word "hate" yet several people have thrown that word around in reference to my criticism.  This is hyperbole that allows them to disregard what I actually said...or so it seems to me.

[Faith]

@Lester Retsel Hate was the vibe I got from your posts.

 

Anyways, maybe the word "overly" seems inappropriate to you, because you don't and won't know the situation, but it is an appropriate word, regardless of what you think.

 

I'm assuming I was banned because I'm a mod here and I also PM'd a couple ppl about this forum. So, the punishment fit the crime, in my case. 😂

 

 

[Jonas Long]

No. I don't know him.  But the only evidence I have of how he behaves(curated by him btw) is downright despicable if you ask me. So. There's that .

However, I actually do wish him well.  In that I sincerely hope he recognizes, acknowledges, and course corrects his errors, and goes forward in life as a decent respectable human being.  I truly would love to see this happen. 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Lester Retsel

[Faith]

@Lester Retsel Cool, sounds good! I do understand the frustration too. I'm just choosing to let it go for the most part. 

 

💙

[Iesu]

@Faith You and phil banned? Anyone else get banned? 

[Faith]

13 minutes ago, Iesu said:

@Faith You and phil banned? Anyone else get banned? 

Yes, several