Orb Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 I notice in society there's a lot of conditioning centered around being sober and that it's the "ideal" for being a good person. But why not? I mean for example I love kratom, it doesn't have any serious side effects on me, the chance of overdosing is low. And when it comes to Being/Awareness it doesn't dull the clarity of the senses. I'm still able to complete my work and I arguably do better. But yea, I think this thread is a great place to unpack some beliefs relating to the idea that being sober is this special goal you have to attain. I've been through it and I've seen it in some friends of mine who are obsessed with "quitting" every thing like caffeine, porn, nicotine, etc. What if it's okay to partake while also focusing on what's wanted? What if this approach actually leads to a better life? Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteOwl Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 14 minutes ago, Orb said: What if it's okay to partake while also focusing on what's wanted? Its okay to do whatever you want, but be honest about how it actually feels. Check in with yourself how you feel after watching porn or smoking. In my case i don't feel great so i avoid it most of the time. If you really love it just do it and don't care what anyone else does or thinks anyone should do, but it does sound like you try to rationalize something that you might know is not good for you. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 7 minutes ago, WhiteOwl said: Its okay to do whatever you want, but be honest about how it actually feels. Check in with yourself how you feel after watching porn or smoking. In my case i don't feel great so i avoid it most of the time. If you really love it just do it and don't care what anyone else does or thinks anyone should do, but it does sound like you try to rationalize something that you might know is not good for you. I can see that. Thanks for sharing this. Porn is definitely not preferred. Kratom feels fine, it's like coffee for me, it's enjoyable and I can conduct my business just fine while taking it. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 15 minutes ago, WhiteOwl said: Its okay to do whatever you want, but be honest about how it actually feels. Check in with yourself how you feel after watching porn or smoking. In my case i don't feel great so i avoid it most of the time. If you really love it just do it and don't care what anyone else does or thinks anyone should do, but it does sound like you try to rationalize something that you might know is not good for you. The thread was about substances specifically...porn isn't really a substance. I mean it might produce one, but... sorry, gross. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 1 minute ago, Jonas Long said: I mean it might produce one, but... sorry, gross. 😂😂😂 Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteOwl Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Just now, Jonas Long said: The thread was about substances specifically...porn isn't really a substance. I mean it might produce one, but... sorry, gross. Did you read the thread.. dude. Porn was specifically mentioned. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteOwl Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 4 minutes ago, Jonas Long said: porn isn't really a substance. What is a substance though? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Is it about "sobriety"? People in aa are allowed to drink coffee, smoke cigarettes, but nothing "mind altering", which is an odd line to draw. Is it about "addictions" or "bad habits" or anything you ingest? It all feels sort of arbitrary at some point. But what do I know, I'm drunk. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Is in line with what you want financially and for health and wellbeing? You aren't dependent on this substance to feel your best? Maybe you're jealous of people who perform well without requiring substances? Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 7 minutes ago, Mandy said: Is in line with what you want financially and for health and wellbeing? You aren't dependent on this substance to feel your best? So far yea it's aligned, it's like coffee, it's enjoyable but it doesn't negatively impact me, the side effects are minimal. 8 minutes ago, Mandy said: Maybe you're jealous of people who perform well without requiring substances? Hm I don't think so. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 55 minutes ago, Orb said: So far yea it's aligned, it's like coffee, it's enjoyable but it doesn't negatively impact me, the side effects are minimal. Is coffee really enjoyable though? Or is the percieved enjoyment really just relief from the withdrawal? Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 2 hours ago, Blessed2 said: Is coffee really enjoyable though? Or is the percieved enjoyment really just relief from the withdrawal? Maybe! I remember when I stopped using caffeine my mind actually felt clearer and my energy was more balanced out. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 @Orb If it's an expensive habit, and your finances aren't good and you're still spending on that habit, that's not just partaking while focusing on what's wanted. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn2 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) You are just needlesly playing with your body's chemistry, in my opinion. There is nothing really wrong with porn, porn is just an audiovisual medium, that's all, it cannot create anything in your body/mind that wasn't already there to begin with. Coffee can give you some trouble under certain circumstances and in certain ammounts due to coffeine but those problems are mostly not severe. Kratom, idk, just seems unnecessary and can cause side effects/various sympthoms in the future, you might not be aware of it yet it can still negatively impact your health Yeah sobriety doesn't have a fixed definition, but in general the healthiest way to go about life is to just listen to science, stick to basics and just not put any unnecessary shit in the body. I love when some people use that as an excuse btw, oh yeah you cannot REALLY define sobriety so why not just mess with my body however I want to, well, good luck with that LOL And yeah, in regards to your other problem as well, I think you may want to start here, honestly Edited March 2 by Reborn2 Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 12 minutes ago, Reborn2 said: And yeah, in regards to your other problem as well, I think you may want to start here, honestly Start what here? And which "problem" are you referring to? Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn2 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 22 minutes ago, Orb said: Start what here? And which "problem" are you referring to? I'm refering to the lack of job satisfaction and debts, you've shared that in some other topic but apparently you feel better about it now. I remember it cause your nickname is so memorable Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 44 minutes ago, Reborn2 said: I'm refering to the lack of job satisfaction and debts, you've shared that in some other topic but apparently you feel better about it now. I remember it cause your nickname is so memorable Ooohh gotcha, I like that advice, thank you for it. Tough love is helpful 🙏💙 Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) 3 hours ago, Mandy said: @Orb If it's an expensive habit, and your finances aren't good and you're still spending on that habit, that's not just partaking while focusing on what's wanted. This is key. Cleaning up spending the the easiest way to get your finances in order. Finances is very simple, clean up your spending and earn more than you spend. This is why doing a general cleanup of health, finances, and quitting addictions can go nicely together. This is rather than just targeting one thing. You can shift a few things and go on a mission that will do a lot for your health. I like getting on board with these kinds of missions if I can. It makes me feel like the pain will be worth it. Think of it as a health improvement (financial health too) mission. Edited March 2 by Joseph Maynor Quote Mention 💬 🗯️🤍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 It depends on what you mean by substances. Some are really bad for your health and that is why you shouldn’t take them. Some also cause/contribute to depression. The more in love with life you are, the less you want to do damage to your body. You want it to be strong and beautiful to give you maximum out of life. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 Thanks for all of the feedback/responses everyone. I've decided ironically that what's most aligned is to actually stop using substances including caffeine lol. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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