fopylo Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 So for a few weeks or so I've been trying to meditate 10 minutes almost every morning. I felt very great for the first few days, like more alive and better focus. But now I am the point of not feeling like it's really helping me. Lately it's been harder for me to gently let loose of my focus and allow it to return to feeling and the qualia. I've also noticed that my self image pops up in thought many times when in conversations with people and that it is harder for me to shift my focus onto the other person and the environment (a great lesson I learned about how to get rid of social anxiety and become better socially). This has been a bit of a challenge at first but got the hang of it, and now it becomes more difficult? I want to believe that this is some type of "part of the journey" but I also don't want to fool myself in some trap. After all, meditation is for expressing the moment, and within, the body sensations - emotions, no? Why has it become harder with time? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reena Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 @fopylo you have to combine meditation with other stuff. Meditation is just a seasoning, not the salad. Quote Mention So basically I'm an autistic INFJ BPD sigma Pisces female with anger and CPTSD issues. Wow wow. My plate looks full. I Couldn't have been weirder than that. Now I get why I'm so idiosyncratic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Have you tried different techniques? Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 14 hours ago, fopylo said: So for a few weeks or so I've been trying to meditate 10 minutes almost every morning. When are thoughts experienced? 14 hours ago, fopylo said: I felt very great for the first few days, like more alive and better focus. Check and see if feeling is present now. Then go to the past which thought claims feeling is (‘I felt’) and verify feeling is there. 14 hours ago, fopylo said: But now I am the point of not feeling like it's really helping me. Discard feeling mindfully & completely and share what it’s like without feeling once you’ve done so. See what not feeling really is. 14 hours ago, fopylo said: Lately it's been harder for me to gently let loose of my focus and allow it to return to feeling and the qualia. How did you first restrain focus, make it your possession, and place it on feeling? If you were to teach this to someone else, what steps would you give? 14 hours ago, fopylo said: I've also noticed that my self image pops up in thought many times when in conversations with people and that it is harder for me to shift my focus onto the other person and the environment (a great lesson I learned about how to get rid of social anxiety and become better socially). This has been a bit of a challenge at first but got the hang of it, and now it becomes more difficult? Is it difficult, or just a matter of getting rid of feeling & emotion and becoming better again? Define difficult. 14 hours ago, fopylo said: I want to believe that this is some type of "part of the journey" but I also don't want to fool myself in some trap. Fool yourself mindfully, and then ask yourself what the experience of being fooled by yourself was like and share what yourself says. 14 hours ago, fopylo said: After all, meditation is for expressing the moment, and within, the body sensations - emotions, no? Why has it become harder with time? Ask time. Define harder. What is this song about? https://youtu.be/2X5Dr-uFVGw?si=7n2MvDr7N27Z7Uc6 Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Maybe there isn't a transaction, "I invest my time here and get something out". Giving isn't really "If I give this, I get this" giving is a spirit. Find the spirit. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fopylo Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 @Phil 10 hours ago, Phil said: Check and see if feeling is present now. Then go to the past which thought claims feeling is (‘I felt’) and verify feeling is there. I mean I guess feeling is always there, even when thoughts of past arise, but they point to an experience that happened before. 10 hours ago, Phil said: Discard feeling mindfully & completely and share what it’s like without feeling once you’ve done so. See what not feeling really is. It's just putting focus on something else, like thoughts and beliefs. I can also put focus on hearing and (not on feeling the breath). 10 hours ago, Phil said: How did you first restrain focus, make it your possession, and place it on feeling? If you were to teach this to someone else, what steps would you give? Idk, perhaps the excitement of the impact you feel at the beginning motivated me enough to want to dive deeper into the sensations... I put entire focus on feeling the sensations of the breath from my belly without regards to what thoughts came up. Nowadays I for some reason try and also look at the thoughts and navigate a little. I also got exhausted from trying to control my breath for the sake of activating more sensations to make it easier for me to focus. If I were to tech it, fuck... perhaps not to try and control the outcome and to just simply focus on the feeling of the breath without regard to thoughts. 10 hours ago, Phil said: Is it difficult, or just a matter of getting rid of feeling & emotion and becoming better again? Define difficult. Difficult just like today I was at a social gathering and I was quite anxious, even around people I know for a long time already. It wasn't easy so much to focus entirely on the environment and what the other person is saying because sometimes I'd get distracted by thoughts about how I am perceived (am I annoying him, do I seem trying too hard to be funny, are they even listening to me). I'll feel sometimes when the pain has gotten high enough to feel tension on my face and throat and cold legs. Difficult means that there is some suffering and I wouldn't want my life to always be shit socially. 10 hours ago, Phil said: 23 hours ago, fopylo said: After all, meditation is for expressing the moment, and within, the body sensations - emotions, no? Why has it become harder with time? Ask time. Define harder. Why is it a matter of time and practice that a person gets better at a skill? How come it's a matter of time and practice of meditation yet I don't feel like I got better at handling emotions? 10 hours ago, Phil said: What is this song about? https://youtu.be/2X5Dr-uFVGw?si=7n2MvDr7N27Z7Uc6 Song slaps real hard! I think the singer is talking about how we all are all the time thinking about ourselves and we enjoy the pleasure of pain, and wonders if others can relate to him. But he is saying that he doesn't know how to get back to good throughout the whole song and eventually gives up or something. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 2 hours ago, fopylo said: I mean I guess feeling is always there, even when thoughts of past arise, but they point to an experience that happened before. Thought claims there is a before / past experience. There really isn’t though. 2 hours ago, fopylo said: It's just putting focus on something else, like thoughts and beliefs. I can also put focus on hearing and (not on feeling the breath). Follow through with checking direct experience. What is it like without feeling or sensation present? Maybe you’ll dispel some majorly obscuring assumptions. 2 hours ago, fopylo said: Idk, perhaps the excitement of the impact you feel at the beginning motivated me enough to want to dive deeper into the sensations... I put entire focus on feeling the sensations of the breath from my belly without regards to what thoughts came up. Nowadays I for some reason try and also look at the thoughts and navigate a little. I also got exhausted from trying to control my breath for the sake of activating more sensations to make it easier for me to focus. If I were to tech it, fuck... perhaps not to try and control the outcome and to just simply focus on the feeling of the breath without regard to thoughts. Acknowledging and expressing emotions makes for a calm mind & unfettered focus. 2 hours ago, fopylo said: Difficult just like today I was at a social gathering and I was quite anxious, even around people I know for a long time already. It wasn't easy so much to focus entirely on the environment and what the other person is saying because sometimes I'd get distracted by thoughts about how I am perceived (am I annoying him, do I seem trying too hard to be funny, are they even listening to me). I'll feel sometimes when the pain has gotten high enough to feel tension on my face and throat and cold legs. Difficult means that there is some suffering and I wouldn't want my life to always be shit socially. With a calmed mind, question all of these assumptions. Careful with believing discordant thoughts about yourself. They don’t feel off because there’s true. They feel off because they’re off. 2 hours ago, fopylo said: 13 hours ago, Phil said: Why is it a matter of time and practice that a person gets better at a skill? It isn’t. Thought claims this. Might be thinking a bigger slice of time so to speak, than you’re actually experiencing. 2 hours ago, fopylo said: How come it's a matter of time and practice of meditation yet I don't feel like I got better at handling emotions? Acknowledging & expressing isn’t handling. 2 hours ago, fopylo said: I think the singer is talking about how we all are all the time thinking about ourselves and we enjoy the pleasure of pain, and wonders if others can relate to him. But he is saying that he doesn't know how to get back to good throughout the whole song and eventually gives up or something. Keep up the meditation, acknowledge & express emotions. Explore the reality of feeling. Listen again a year from now. It’ll sound entirely different. Mind blower really. Add in some affirmations specific to the discordant emotions experienced. 🙂 Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 On 1/4/2024 at 6:48 PM, fopylo said: So for a few weeks or so I've been trying to meditate 10 minutes almost every morning. I felt very great for the first few days, like more alive and better focus. But now I am the point of not feeling like it's really helping me. Lately it's been harder for me to gently let loose of my focus and allow it to return to feeling and the qualia. I've also noticed that my self image pops up in thought many times when in conversations with people and that it is harder for me to shift my focus onto the other person and the environment (a great lesson I learned about how to get rid of social anxiety and become better socially). This has been a bit of a challenge at first but got the hang of it, and now it becomes more difficult? I want to believe that this is some type of "part of the journey" but I also don't want to fool myself in some trap. After all, meditation is for expressing the moment, and within, the body sensations - emotions, no? Why has it become harder with time? What you’re referring to as what was learned, “how to get rid of social anxiety & become better socially” is (very generously speaking) like a band aid & is not a getting to the root. The meat on the bone is the belief you aren’t good enough already and are becoming good enough. The belief is judgmental and believed to be experienced as if from someone else’s perspective, about you. The belief is not from someone else’s perspective, and is not true. Experientially, there is learning about social skills etc, and that’s great. Becoming (better) is a thought narrative which suppresses the emotions felt as guidance in accordance with the falsity of the self referential belief. Meditation is emptying, a releasing of discordant (false) conditioning (beliefs), and is working perfectly. Just as when barfing you’re inclined to let it out, and not to swallow it, barf, swallow, barf, etc… as releases occurs, let it out. Careful not to hang onto what doesn’t resonate, believe it’s true in spite of the guidance, and attempt to solve it or become. That would be assumptive with respect to the truth, and suppressive of the guidance. Practically speaking with meditation, it is the consistency that ultimately matters, not the time or timing. 5 or 10 minutes a day and increasing naturally, comfortably, is better than 45 mins one day, suppressing rather than releasing what arises and skipping days. As much as is feasible, never sacrifice the enjoyment of now to ‘get somewhere’ or ‘become’. Be very mindful with entertaining content which suggests otherwise. Allow your intention to align with truth, rather than yourself to align with someone else’s intention(s). Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceejay Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 You don't have to meditate everyday for 10 minutes or 30 minutes or 1 hour. Can you meditate right now, as you read this, for some moments? If you feel like "not now" -- then that is alright. Don't force it. But there are times in the day, when you simply want to deeply rest, and maybe relax for a while from everything. Notice these intervals. Be present for them. Honour them. It might just be a minute or two, nothing necessarily very long. Just appreciate and notice the stillness. Let regular meditation practice emerge on its own, as a consequence of you falling in love with this stillness. And if it doesn't - that's alright too. I don't meditate formally these days. I might start it soon. But I don't want to force myself. The Tao is like the wind. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fopylo Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 @Phil Hey Phil, before I even read your messages I want to tell you that it is a goal of mine to meditate 10 minutes every day of the year. Up till now (from January 1st) I've been semi-consistent. I would like to wake up earlier to have those spare 10 minutes before leaving the house to just sit in my chair in front of my desk and feel the breath (its qualia, the essence that can't be objectively measured!). I am gonna tell you right now that meditation feels good but only when done right - without making thought stories the dominant focus. I feel good after a good session, good as in peace with the feeling, and that momentum can carry on a bit into the day. But not all sessions are good... Sometimes I fall asleep, and that is annoying as hell. I swear that it is probably the worst outcome of a meditation practice. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fopylo Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 @Phil On 1/6/2024 at 3:25 AM, Phil said: What is it like without feeling or sensation present? Maybe you’ll dispel some majorly obscuring assumptions. Isn't present seems to me like focus is just not on the feeling and sensations, just like when I focus on feeling there is always thoughts but try not to give much regard to them. Maybe not the best analogy... But it's just stories important enough that are more valuable than the suffering. On 1/6/2024 at 3:25 AM, Phil said: It isn’t. Thought claims this. Might be thinking a bigger slice of time so to speak, than you’re actually experiencing. If I look at a video from February 2023 I'll see that I can barely hold a handstand for 3 seconds with terrible form. If I look at a video from January 2024 I'll see that I can hold a handstand for around 15 seconds with relatively good form. I have improved because I practiced over the year. I didn't just become great in the moment. On 1/6/2024 at 3:25 AM, Phil said: On 1/6/2024 at 2:06 AM, fopylo said: How come it's a matter of time and practice of meditation yet I don't feel like I got better at handling emotions? Acknowledging & expressing isn’t handling. I meant don't feel like I got better at expressing and clearing my mind. On 1/6/2024 at 3:25 AM, Phil said: Listen again a year from now. It’ll sound entirely different. Mind blower really. Looking forward to it! On 1/6/2024 at 3:25 AM, Phil said: Add in some affirmations specific to the discordant emotions experienced. 🙂 Like what? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConsciousDreamer666 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 9 minutes ago, fopylo said: I feel good after a good session, good as in peace with the feeling, and that momentum can carry on a bit into the day. But not all sessions are good... Sometimes I fall asleep, and that is annoying as hell. I swear that it is probably the worst outcome of a meditation practice. That is a super common 'problem' when meditating, don't worry. I advice you to seek other tools in order to make meditation more effortless or 'a consequence of'. IMO for meditation to be a success, there must be a certain activation or intensity of energies, so when one sits and just don´t move, stillness is the result, and not drowsiness or sleep. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fopylo Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 @Phil On 1/6/2024 at 5:38 PM, Phil said: What you’re referring to as what was learned, “how to get rid of social anxiety & become better socially” is (very generously speaking) like a band aid & is not a getting to the root. The meat on the bone is the belief you aren’t good enough already and are becoming good enough. No so this is actually a very great course in my opinion. I mean, he does talk a lot about the relation between attention and social anxiety and that it is pretty much a practice of attention training, because anxiety comes from focusing a lot on ourselves rather than putting all attention on really listening to the other person and also environment. I totally feel it. On 1/6/2024 at 5:38 PM, Phil said: Experientially, there is learning about social skills etc, and that’s great. Becoming (better) is a thought narrative which suppresses the emotions felt as guidance in accordance with the falsity of the self referential belief. Imo it comes together - letting go of discordant thoughts (feeling emotions) and thus better at focusing on the other person is what sets you up from the get go to a good social interaction. Then it's already all about the coming up with questions an associations/reflections/opinion and building off each other while getting to know the other better and find a common interest to bond. I see meditation as a great way to improve my focus and help me clear the mind so I can focus on what the other person is saying clearly and also at 'checking in with myself' (body sensations) sometimes. On 1/6/2024 at 5:38 PM, Phil said: Practically speaking with meditation, it is the consistency that ultimately matters, not the time or timing. 5 or 10 minutes a day and increasing naturally, comfortably, is better than 45 mins one day Thanks man. This is very reassuring for me. Also chatgpt said the same thing lol. ... A little curious as to why you say it's more about the consistency...? On 1/6/2024 at 5:38 PM, Phil said: As much as is feasible, never sacrifice the enjoyment of now to ‘get somewhere’ or ‘become’. In the morning I anticipate the meditation practice, and sometimes I sacrifice the value of the moment and that the meditation will help me 'get somewhere', to a better state, as you said above. Why then practice 10 minutes of seated meditation every morning when you can just try to have fun in the morning and maybe even listen to music? I mean, if we talk about consistency then it will probably clash with 'sacrificing the enjoyment' of the moment in order to remain consistent. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 44 minutes ago, fopylo said: No so this is actually a very great course in my opinion. I mean, he does talk a lot about the relation between attention and social anxiety and that it is pretty much a practice of attention training, because anxiety comes from focusing a lot on ourselves rather than putting all attention on really listening to the other person and also environment. I totally feel it. On 1/4/2024 at 6:48 PM, fopylo said: and now it becomes more difficult? I was referring to that aspect / comment. Getting to the root. 44 minutes ago, fopylo said: Imo it comes together - letting go of discordant thoughts (feeling emotions) and thus better at focusing on the other person is what sets you up from the get go to a good social interaction. Then it's already all about the coming up with questions an associations/reflections/opinion and building off each other while getting to know the other better and find a common interest to bond. I see meditation as a great way to improve my focus and help me clear the mind so I can focus on what the other person is saying clearly and also at 'checking in with myself' (body sensations) sometimes. That’s awesome. I agree. With respect to “and now it becomes more difficult” & “I don’t want to fool myself in some trap”… I lean toward unobscured, unfettered, undivided focus. 44 minutes ago, fopylo said: Thanks man. This is very reassuring for me. Also chatgpt said the same thing lol. ... A little curious as to why you say it's more about the consistency...? Words can only point to what is unfettered via the consistency. Words like peace, happiness, truth, love, intelligence, clarity. Thought doesn’t really define or apply, so an analogy is, if you were barfing you wouldn’t hold the barf in your mouth for a day or two. Expression is emptying, like barfing is emptying. Not all expression of course. Questioning the truth of validity of a belief is also clarifying / unfetters clarity. 44 minutes ago, fopylo said: In the morning I anticipate the meditation practice, and sometimes I sacrifice the value of the moment and that the meditation will help me 'get somewhere', to a better state, as you said above. Meditation doesn’t help you get to a better state. That would be a thought about feeling better or being better in a future, as a result of meditation. It’s also a thought about being in something, which is very literally impossible. I admit it sounds crazy in that it is contrary to conventional consensus, but I’m saying you’re already Good, and meditation is an allowing of discordant interpretations to the contrary go. Meditation is like a breeze un-obscurring the sun of clouds. 44 minutes ago, fopylo said: Why then practice 10 minutes of seated meditation every morning when you can just try to have fun in the morning and maybe even listen to music? I mean, if we talk about consistency then it will probably clash with 'sacrificing the enjoyment' of the moment in order to remain consistent. Let me know if this isn’t accurate, but it seems like what you’re saying is if meditation isn’t getting me anything or anywhere, then why meditation. If so, the answer is that it’s an unfettering of discord / discordant interpretations (and therein stress, tension, contraction, etc), and this in turn contributes to everything in life. To getting where you want to go on all fronts, in all scenarios, in all situations & circumstances. It’s a ‘getting out of your own way’. An illumination at the root. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, fopylo said: Isn't present seems to me like focus is just not on the feeling and sensations, just like when I focus on feeling there is always thoughts but try not to give much regard to them. Maybe not the best analogy... But it's just stories important enough that are more valuable than the suffering. Every time you check, without exception, absolutely; feeling is present. 1 hour ago, fopylo said: If I look at a video from February 2023 I'll see that I can barely hold a handstand for 3 seconds with terrible form. If I look at a video from January 2024 I'll see that I can hold a handstand for around 15 seconds with relatively good form. I have improved because I practiced over the year. I didn't just become great in the moment. Meditation isn’t a skill. 1 hour ago, fopylo said: meant don't feel like I got better at expressing and clearing my mind. Meditation & expression aren’t skills you get better at. 1 hour ago, fopylo said: Like what? Skinny some discordant beliefs down to as few words as possible and I’ll offer some contrary affirmations. The skinning down makes for more precise affirmation. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James123 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 On 1/5/2024 at 2:48 AM, fopylo said: So for a few weeks or so I've been trying to meditate 10 minutes almost every morning. I felt very great for the first few days, like more alive and better focus. But now I am the point of not feeling like it's really helping me. Lately it's been harder for me to gently let loose of my focus and allow it to return to feeling and the qualia. I've also noticed that my self image pops up in thought many times when in conversations with people and that it is harder for me to shift my focus onto the other person and the environment (a great lesson I learned about how to get rid of social anxiety and become better socially). This has been a bit of a challenge at first but got the hang of it, and now it becomes more difficult? I want to believe that this is some type of "part of the journey" but I also don't want to fool myself in some trap. After all, meditation is for expressing the moment, and within, the body sensations - emotions, no? Why has it become harder with time? Meditation stretch the consciousness. And that makes you tight/facing with difficulties. Go till rope tear. Quote Mention "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fopylo Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 On 1/11/2024 at 12:45 AM, Phil said: Words can only point to what is unfettered via the consistency. Words like peace, happiness, truth, love, intelligence, clarity. Thought doesn’t really define or apply, so an analogy is, if you were barfing you wouldn’t hold the barf in your mouth for a day or two. Expression is emptying, like barfing is emptying. Not all expression of course. Questioning the truth of validity of a belief is also clarifying / unfetters clarity. @Phil But why is it that short but consistent meditation sessions are better than long but inconsistent sessions? On 1/11/2024 at 12:45 AM, Phil said: That would be a thought about feeling better or being better in a future, as a result of meditation. true. On 1/11/2024 at 12:45 AM, Phil said: On 1/11/2024 at 12:25 AM, fopylo said: Why then practice 10 minutes of seated meditation every morning when you can just try to have fun in the morning and maybe even listen to music? I mean, if we talk about consistency then it will probably clash with 'sacrificing the enjoyment' of the moment in order to remain consistent. Let me know if this isn’t accurate, but it seems like what you’re saying is if meditation isn’t getting me anything or anywhere, then why meditation. What I'm saying is that in order to remain consistent then there is some kind of discipline that would need to be in order to stay consistent. And that discipline of waking up in the morning and telling myself "I'm gonna meditate for 10 minutes soon cuz I'm consistent" might go against my actual desire for sitting and meditating, and thus feeling like a chore. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 15 minutes ago, fopylo said: @Phil But why is it that short but consistent meditation sessions are better than long but inconsistent sessions? true. Why is it better to barf than hold it in the mouth for a few days and then barf? Feeling infinite, appearing as the mind. The mind is claiming there is not feeling, but rather there are my feelings. What’s wanted is assuredness, peace, happiness, clarity etc, and these are all synonymous with feeling, and ‘these’ are not feelings. 15 minutes ago, fopylo said: What I'm saying is that in order to remain consistent then there is some kind of discipline that would need to be in order to stay consistent. And that discipline of waking up in the morning and telling myself "I'm gonna meditate for 10 minutes soon cuz I'm consistent" might go against my actual desire for sitting and meditating, and thus feeling like a chore. Question the thoughts about there being a second self (which needs discipline / a discipline in place / to be disciplined, which is being told, etc). Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fopylo Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 3 hours ago, Phil said: 3 hours ago, fopylo said: But why is it that short but consistent meditation sessions are better than long but inconsistent sessions? true. Why is it better to barf than hold it in the mouth for a few days and then barf? I see... It's not necessarily about the result, but rather a lifestyle. Also, bro why don't you just say 'vomit'? 😂 3 hours ago, Phil said: What’s wanted is assuredness, peace, happiness, clarity etc, and these are all synonymous with feeling Could we also say that leashing out anger and frustration, shaking in fear, and admitting to want to 'get back' at someone (and maybe even doing something to the person) is synonymous with feeling? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 12 minutes ago, fopylo said: I see... It's not necessarily about the result, but rather a lifestyle. Also, bro why don't you just say 'vomit'? 😂 Not even. 12 minutes ago, fopylo said: Could we also say that leashing out anger and frustration, shaking in fear, and admitting to want to 'get back' at someone (and maybe even doing something to the person) is synonymous with feeling? That describes experience. Thought, emotion, sensation, action. Assuredness, peace, happiness, clarity aren’t experience(d). Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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