Jonas Long Posted September 24, 2022 Author Share Posted September 24, 2022 if he said "I have racist tendencies" that would be honest, saying "racist tendency is inherent in all people" is not. How are you gonna prove that? Also, I thought he was all into personal development and growth, so why stop at "well I have racist(or ethnocentric) tendency, so I would prefer to live in a neighborhood where everyone looks like me"... wouldn't personal growth and development entail transcending your bias and prejudice by integrating yourself in other cultures? Dude was afraid of girls, he didn't just accept that and avoid them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted September 24, 2022 Author Share Posted September 24, 2022 Racism, or "ethnocentrism" is nothing if not a product of societal conditioning, so, if you think society is stupid, which it often is for sure, a great way to deprogram would be to confront your own assumptions and biases regarding race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Psychonautica Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Devin said: How is he wrong? I agree with him. It comes down to words, if by beliefs you mean verbal beliefs, yes they're all bollocks, Words are made up they're all bollocks, no verbal belief or argument could come to a true end You agree with him because you BELIEVE it is true, but you have no basis for that belief. Unless you are an infallible expert in trauma healing, and can speak with authority on the psychological requirements of every individual on the planet, then it is nonsense to make such a sweeping claim. Seeing as Leo is not such an expert (and I’m guessing neither are you) then the claim is indeed nonsense. If we further factor in that Leo has a fairly limited understanding of human experience then it just gets sillier. The fact that you agree with him is irrelevant, and rather foolish. Beliefs are not words. Words indeed can be used to describe beliefs, but beliefs are not the words themselves. You seem confused by the distinction but its not particularly complicated if you just take a moment to think about it. 4 hours ago, Devin said: Uhh, it is seriously debated in the scientific community. You're operating on faith, and if you don't recognize that, ignorance So balloons are left out of the gravity belief😆. My point is if you had your belief before ever seeing a balloon you would have believed it would fall, you said gravity makes everything fall down. It's the gravity pulling on the heavier gasses around the balloon by the way, like how a rock sinks in the ocean, it displaces the "lighter" water Everything is debated in the scientific community, that is the very function of science. I wouldnt disagree that there is an element of faith in my understanding of gravity, but it performs in a consistent way which fits the model and serves whatever need I might have of its mechanics, so I take it as a given. I think the examples I gave were sufficient to make my point, so try not to be a pedant. Your helium balloon analogy itself proves my point because once it has risen above the denser gas, it does not continue rising. Gravity prevents it escaping, so gravity does indeed make everything fall down. Try harder 🙂 Edited September 24, 2022 by Adeptus Psychonautica My YouTube channel - Adeptus Psychonautica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted September 24, 2022 Author Share Posted September 24, 2022 This thread has turned into "indulging devin" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Psychonautica Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 @DMT Elf the only thing you can take for granted is that you are having an experience, but beyond that I see convincing evidence within that experience that the universe didnt begin with “me”, and that there are other conscious systems inhabiting this same plane of existence. Yes you could say that is unverified because all I can know is my own experience, and I wouldn’t disagree, but that also doesn’t make it incorrect. Sure, maybe truth does depend upon the observer, but I see no reason to believe that and many reason to not believe it. I think there is indeed an objective material reality. We are clearly interfacing with it right now as we press buttons and read screens, but I don’t believe that is the entirety of reality. Psychedelics, psychology, emotion, dream etc… there is a lot more to reality than just matter. I’m guessing stuck on materialism means to dismiss all the above, but I personally don’t hold that view so I can’t really comment. My YouTube channel - Adeptus Psychonautica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted September 24, 2022 Author Share Posted September 24, 2022 @DMT Elf strictly speaking, you can't prove a negative, like you can't DISPROVE solipsism, but, since the simpler answer is usually correct, it's simpler to believe there are other conscious beings having their own subjective experiences than it is to think it's just me inventing all that. You can't prove a tree falling in the forest makes a sound if you're not there...but you can leave a recording device in the woods now and verify that a sound has been recorded...you still can't prove that its only because the recording device was there, but it becomes more of a stretch to suppose that, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James123 Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said: the only thing you can take for granted is that you are having an experience, What is an experience? If you never learned what the experience it, will you be able to have it now? 1 hour ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said: Sure, maybe truth does depend upon the observer, but I see no reason to believe that and many reason to not believe it. Observer is an illusion itself, every observer has different observation but, Truth is identical for anyone (meanwhile there is no one 😃😃) Therefore, only way to realize the truth is dropping the observer. "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted September 25, 2022 Author Share Posted September 25, 2022 49 minutes ago, James123 said: What is an experience? If you never learned what the experience it, will you be able to have it now? Observer is an illusion itself, every observer has different observation but, Truth is identical for anyone (meanwhile there is no one 😃😃) Therefore, only way to realize the truth is dropping the observer. ^^pretty much why I don't generally fuck with this forum 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 @DMT Elf "experience, perspective, lens, viewpoint, relative, absolute" are all just words. what would you be without those words? What's going on here is basically the illusion that there is something inside of something. "Experience" is just the word "experience", that's all it is. Most people think there is something inside the word "experience". But it's just a word. Think of it like you're writing a book, there's the word "experience", then you create the word "me/I/self" and say that this "me" is inside the word "experience". In this book "me" needs "space" to move around, and "time" to to get from "here" to "there". It's all just words. Thus, there isn't any experience, it's just a word, then the word is believed to really be something. Say "experience" in your head, what else is there other than a word? ♾️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 1 minute ago, DMT Elf said: @Orb OK, it’s all just words. That’s fine, but what’s wrong with the word ‘experience’ to describe whatever THIS is? @DMT Elf nothing wrong with it, I'm not against it. 6 minutes ago, DMT Elf said: @Orb is there baggage connected to these words which promotes misunderstanding? Just thinking that there's something actually inside the word. ♾️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted September 25, 2022 Author Share Posted September 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Orb said: @DMT Elf nothing wrong with it, I'm not against it. Just thinking that there's something actually inside the word. Semantics... totally pointless. I think most of us understand words aren't "things"... But words ARE powerful, "In the beginning was the word" Language does imply duality, which I know makes people here uptight, but, life is a dual experience, even if "ultimate reality" is nondual. Why have a "nondual community" at all if you're gonna squabble about words...this is an online fucking forum, how else are you gonna use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James123 Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 55 minutes ago, DMT Elf said: 2 hours ago, James123 said: the observer. idk, it kinda makes sense. Like observation from the viewpoint of the separate self forms a lens insufficient for rendering the absolute Only, Thinking, knowing or experiencing creates the separation. When during the sleep or before birth, why it is identical for everyone do you think? 58 minutes ago, DMT Elf said: no idea what that means. That means is you even learn your birth, world, enlightenment etc. No. Now is the source, there was no birth, world etc. Nothing has never happened. You just "learned" or "believed". If you never learned anything, since your so called birth, there will be no question left for you 😃 and that's enlightenment or Truth. @DMT Elf 28 minutes ago, DMT Elf said: @Orb OK, it’s all just words. That’s fine, but what’s wrong with the word ‘experience’ to describe whatever THIS is? Is there baggage connected to these words which promotes misunderstanding? Can you answer what is "this"? Anything you have learned promotes misunderstanding, including these sentences, if you trust these are as "sentences". 18 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said: Semantics... totally pointless. I think most of us understand words aren't "things"... But words ARE powerful, "In the beginning was the word" Language does imply duality, which I know makes people here uptight, but, life is a dual experience, even if "ultimate reality" is nondual. Why have a "nondual community" at all if you're gonna squabble about words...this is an online fucking forum, how else are you gonna use it? Pointless, nondual community, online forum, words, duality, nonduality, these are all thoughts, which is important to have fun in the game, but never helps for the Truth. "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 (edited) @Lester Retsel 37 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said: Semantics... totally pointless. I think most of us understand words aren't "things"... 37 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said: But words ARE powerful, I'm not against words, no problem with it at all. For a "non-dual community" it's important to remind each other that it's all just words. This helps us remember to sit down and meditate, to observe ourselves. And not get lost in thought. Edited September 25, 2022 by Orb ♾️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted September 25, 2022 Author Share Posted September 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Orb said: @Lester Retsel I'm not against words, no problem with it at all. You're just being fucking annoying, interrupting an actual conversation to wax semantics.... yeah, we were talking....with words... I can't figure out why you felt the need to interject with that totally pointless observation that words aren't actual things...using words. Seriously at least half of the interactions here are like a child saying "I know you are but what am i..." ad nauseum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 (edited) @Lester Retsel idk what to say to you man, you're always pissed lol Edited September 25, 2022 by Orb ♾️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 @DMT Elf 😄💙 ♾️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted September 25, 2022 Author Share Posted September 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, Orb said: @Lester Retsel idk what to say to you man, you're always pissed lol Say pretty much whatever you want, other than " the words you are saying don't mean anything and the words I'm answering with don't mean anything..." I get nonduality, but it's pretty much moot to talk about it...we can still talk about other things...you don't have to reinvent the wheel every time you get in your car to drive to work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 @Lester Retsel I wasn't reinventing the wheel, @DMT Elf was curious on experience being an illusion, this is what I was highlighting. You keep making it seem like I just show up to conversations and say "hey guys it's all just words!" with no context lol ♾️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted September 25, 2022 Author Share Posted September 25, 2022 9 minutes ago, Orb said: @Lester Retsel I wasn't reinventing the wheel, @DMT Elf was curious on experience being an illusion, this is what I was highlighting. You keep making it seem like I just show up to conversations and say "hey guys it's all just words!" with no context lol So experience is illusory. Or that's one way to say it/look at it/think about it. And? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 @Lester Retsel 2 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said: And? What do you mean by this? And what? ♾️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts