Pure hell of solipsism. I need help.

[Forza21]

 Hi. I'm here from Leo's forum.
I've been talking to Tim on this, he introduced me to this place. Thank you, Tim, for everything you've done for me. ❤️

I'm in hell. I've never felt so much pain in my entire life. 2 weeks ago i had LSD trip, God realization. It was my 14-15 trip, and a couple of years of meditation. On the trip i felt like GOD is everything, and everything is imaginary, and i imagine all this. I felt so alone, that i wrote every book there is, every music, etc, and i'm here stuck for infinity. I felt like I imagine other people. I wonder if that Solipsism thing from Leo forum, was something i felt into.  TThis idea got really got into my head just before tripping. I was afraid of it... so it happend.


Since then, i question everyone and everything, if there are even there.

When i talk to someone, i wonder if it's my mind, or the person is there. If i talk on the phone, i wonder if it's only the voice, or is there a person behind.

I understand that there's only consciousness, but i can't even look into the face of my loved ones, because i'm afraid that she's not there. i wanted to devote my life for love, but i ask myself, what's the point, if i'm so alone?

What's the point of helping others?

My life become HELL. Pure Hell.I can't sleep, eat, have fun, i cry a lot. I don't know what to do. Any advice would be appreciated.

If there's someone who would talk with me on skype, i'm also in it. thank you.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Forza21

[Nowt]

@Forza21 I read some of your posts on other sites and noticed that you were experiencing some difficulty with it. Don't worry, seriously. You're amongst friends. I'm sure Tim has done a wonderful job of discussing this with you.  Currently I'm out of the house and can't write a long response, but keep talking, we'll all keep listening and together it will get sorted. ❤️

[Forza21]

49 minutes ago, Nowt said:

@Forza21 I read some of your posts on other sites and noticed that you were experiencing some difficulty with it. Don't worry, seriously. You're amongst friends. I'm sure Tim has done a wonderful job of discussing this with you.  Currently I'm out of the house and can't write a long response, but keep talking, we'll all keep listening and together it will get sorted. ❤️

 

Thank you so much brother ❤️

[Nowt]

@Forza21 I've had lots of bad trips over the years. Some of them can be hell can't they? 

Solipsism is an idea, a concept and is the ego’s version of Truth. By claiming solipsism as Truth, we are asserting that Truth can be objectified and that we can give it a label. We can’t. We can try, but all words are just that…. Words. If God realization is the truth of no self, how can we then go on to claim that we are the only self in existence? There is no self to be able to make this claim.

Notice that most of the things you mentioned in your post are thought based. You are believing those thoughts and letting them lead you down the rabbit hole. Take a moment to step back from it and try to notice what's happening. 

What you are cannot be defined. We can try, clumsily, but it’s impossible. Remember the oldest teaching in the book......  you are not your mind and not your body! 

Also, notice that if you're aware of something (thoughts for example) then they have objective qualities! Awareness has no objective qualities whatsoever. Period. 

[Nowt]

@Forza21 🙏

[Blessed2]

@Forza21 Nice to see you here, I remember you from the forum! I think a while ago I responded to your post where you were wondering whether to trip or not, and that you were experiencing fear due to holding thoughts about solipsism, avoidance of truth etc. Maybe you remember me.

I'd like to say to you that I know how bad a trip can get and how hard the days, weeks and even months that follow may be. I hear you on the feelings of desperation, loneliness, perhaps even terror and such. And I'd like to say to you that even when all the light seems to be out, even when it seems like there is no way out, there is hope. And there are people who have navigated through these kind of places of confusion.

I think it could be useful for you to read what I responded to your post, as it might shine some light on why this trip might have had manifested, and where are these painful thoughts and confusions 'coming from'.

The best advice I could give you, is simply allowing feeling to guide you. Feeling is guidance. Feeling is here and now, directly available, always persent - whereas trips and thoughts / beliefs about solipsism, metaphysics, god and such is not.

Feeling is the best god damn guidance system that could ever possibly be designed for us. It is so incredibly genius and bright that words do no justice. I'd say stop holding onto any authority other than your joy and wellbeing - that means letting go any teaching / teacher, any belief, any past experience that doesn't serve your highest good and wellbeing. You are truly innocent and you deserve boundless goodness and love - which is what you are always freely granted. Let it come by letting anything that is not in accordance with it (in other word, discordant), go.

Out of all resources I have encountered on my path, the best for navigating through these things have been Actuality of Being, and Abraham - Hicks.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Blessed2

[Nowt]

@Forza21  I would also like to add to what I wrote initially....

It's not for me to comment on how teachers choose to convey their message, but I think you might benefit from hearing the non dual teachings in a much more loving and less clinical way.

This site is a perfect example of that. Rupert Spira is also a great person to listen to and read. He also has a wonderful explanation of solipsism that's available on YouTube as well 

In essence I'm saying something very similar to @Blessed2. Seek out those teachers that radiate love. You'll instinctively feel which ones are right when you see/hear/read them. 

I hear Jesus was pretty good in that department too! 😉😊

[Forza21]

2 hours ago, Nowt said:

@Forza21 I've had lots of bad trips over the years. Some of them can be hell can't they? 

Solipsism is an idea, a concept and is the ego’s version of Truth. By claiming solipsism as Truth, we are asserting that Truth can be objectified and that we can give it a label. We can’t. We can try, but all words are just that…. Words. If God realization is the truth of no self, how can we then go on to claim that we are the only self in existence? There is no self to be able to make this claim.

Notice that most of the things you mentioned in your post are thought based. You are believing those thoughts and letting them lead you down the rabbit hole. Take a moment to step back from it and try to notice what's happening. 

What you are cannot be defined. We can try, clumsily, but it’s impossible. Remember the oldest teaching in the book......  you are not your mind and not your body! 

Also, notice that if you're aware of something (thoughts for example) then they have objective qualities! Awareness has no objective qualities whatsoever. Period. 

Thank you. Really, really, thank you.

You are right.  I'm still a little afraid of meditation, do you think it may help?

Today i felt something different. 

For the first time i gave up, and surrendered this suffering, to God. And I felt, like my boundaries  started to dissolve. I didn't know where this "I' starts or where it ends, it was formless. I felt like everything is the same substance, the bed i'm lying at, walls, air i'm breathing, everything. It's like we are all made of „sand” or water which takes different forms, it's same „being”. All one, or "non-dual". It felt cozy, and it was warm. I don't know if i should call this love, but it may be something like that.

Maybe the key is to surrender all of it to God? 🙂

If you learn to love hell, would it be still hell? 🙂

How long did it take for you to recover from bad trips?

 

[Forza21]

1 hour ago, Blessed2 said:

@Forza21 Nice to see you here, I remember you from the forum! I think a while ago I responded to your post where you were wondering whether to trip or not, and that you were experiencing fear due to holding thoughts about solipsism, avoidance of truth etc. Maybe you remember me.

I'd like to say to you that I know how bad a trip can get and how hard the days, weeks and even months that follow may be. I hear you on the feelings of desperation, loneliness, perhaps even terror and such. And I'd like to say to you that even when all the light seems to be out, even when it seems like there is no way out, there is hope. And there are people who have navigated through these kind of places of confusion.

I think it could be useful for you to read what I responded to your post, as it might shine some light on why this trip might have had manifested, and where are these painful thoughts and confusions 'coming from'.

The best advice I could give you, is simply allowing feeling to guide you. Feeling is guidance. Feeling is here and now, directly available, always persent - whereas trips and thoughts / beliefs about solipsism, metaphysics, god and such is not.

Feeling is the best god damn guidance system that could ever possibly be designed for us. It is so incredibly genius and bright that words do no justice. I'd say stop holding onto any authority other than your joy and wellbeing - that means letting go any teaching / teacher, any belief, any past experience that doesn't serve your highest good and wellbeing. You are truly innocent and you deserve boundless goodness and love - which is what you are always freely granted. Let it come by letting anything that is not in accordance with it (in other word, discordant), go.

Out of all resources I have encountered on my path, the best for navigating through these things have been Actuality of Being, and Abraham - Hicks.

 

 ❤️❤️❤️ Thank you.

I read your post once again. This time it really got me:
 

"There is really no such thing as avoidance of truth. Do you really know what is truth? If not, how could you know if you avoid it or not?

There is avoidance of emotional guidance, though. You know thoughts and beliefs about solipsism feel shit, but you still keep thinking / believing those thoughts. This is what is meant by aversion."

You are so right.  Back then, it didn't have such impact on me, right now i get it. Really get it. I don't know what's the truth. Truth cannot be  grasp by words or believes. You are so right, brother.

" There is no need whatsoever to give any more thoughts about solipsism. There is no need whatsoever for listening to Leo. Neither there is a need for taking psychedelics". 

I listened to this advice, and i didn't take it that day, but i took it about week later, when i wasn't so afraid. It was bad trip anyway.  😉 

About the feelings: Yes. Somehow i felt it was something off with solipsism and Leo teaching's, All the teachings didn't feel very compassionate or loving, but it was based on logic, so i felt into this anyway. 

The worst part in solipsism is that you can't' really think over this, because there's no way to disprove anything. But maybe, i need to trust my feelings? Maybe it's time to get out of my head, and thoughts, and go straight to the heart?: )

Thank you so much ❤️


If it comes to Leo, he sometimes says about "your ego-mind" etc, so does he belive other have experienece or not? i don't get this way of communication. 

love!

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Forza21

[Forza21]

39 minutes ago, Nowt said:

@Forza21  I would also like to add to what I wrote initially....

It's not for me to comment on how teachers choose to convey their message, but I think you might benefit from hearing the non dual teachings in a much more loving and less clinical way.

This site is a perfect example of that. Rupert Spira is also a great person to listen to and read. He also has a wonderful explanation of solipsism that's available on YouTube as well 

In essence I'm saying something very similar to @Blessed2. Seek out those teachers that radiate love. You'll instinctively feel which ones are right when you see/hear/read them. 

Also, Jesus was pretty good in that department too 😊

yes, that's true. Somehow, Leo teachings don't feel very loving or compassionate.  But it makes great sense, it's based on logic. So i felt into this.  I hope there's a way out. 🙂

[Mandy]

13 minutes ago, Forza21 said:

 because there's no way to disprove anything. But maybe, i need to trust my feelings? Maybe it's time to get out of my head, and thoughts, and go straight to the heart?: )

 

Yes! 😁 The negative emotion is the disproof. It's not that there are no others, it's that our thoughts of others are not accurate. So when you think "so and so isn't really there" you are thinking a thought of strong separation. In other words ironically you are actually "othering" pretty hard core. Which is why it feels bad, because emotion is guidance. When we think separation it hurts because that is Love non separation saying "nope". 

If you tell someone "nothing can make you happy".... they usually believe the thoughts and feel bad. Because they are believing in thoughts that assert that NOTHING is NEGATIVE. They assert NOTHING is something... and that SOMETHING is unwanted.  What if nothing was the lack of all unhappiness and it was indeed something more like bliss. We could assign any limitation on it, could we? 

This is the essence of what you are doing with the thought that there are no others. There are beliefs asserting meaning onto it, that does not resonate whatsoever. 

[Forza21]

2 minutes ago, Mandy said:

Yes! 😁 The negative emotion is the disproof. It's not that there are no others, it's that our thoughts of others are not accurate. So when you think "so and so isn't really there" you are thinking a thought of strong separation. In other words ironically you are actually "othering" pretty hard core. Which is why it feels bad, because emotion is guidance. When we think separation it hurts because that is Love non separation saying "nope". 

If you tell someone "nothing can make you happy".... they usually believe the thoughts and feel bad. Because they are believing in thoughts that assert that NOTHING is NEGATIVE. They assert NOTHING is something... and that SOMETHING is unwanted.  What is nothing was the lack of all unhappiness and it was indeed bliss, "not a

This is the essence of what you are doing with the thought that there are no others. There are beliefs asserting meaning onto it, that does not resonate whatsoever. 

Exactly!
Absolutely The WORST part of solipsism is that it kills love. 

Because if they don't have experience, what's the point of loving?   It hurt like hell, like catching fire.  

I can get it when someone says it's all one, it's non-dual, you are me, i'm you.  And in that case the love for you is the love for myself, it's ones. It's beautiful. But when some portraits it as others are "empty meat bags" it's fucking madness.  And i've seen such sentences on previous forum. To be honest, it got into my head too. 

[karkaore]

4 hours ago, Forza21 said:

I'm in hell. I've never felt so much pain in my entire life. 2 weeks ago I had LSD trip, God realization. It was my 14-15 trip, and a couple of years of meditation. On the trip I felt like GOD is everything, and everything is imaginary, and I imagine all this. I felt so alone, that I wrote every book there is, every music, etc, and i'm here stuck for infinity. I felt like I imagine other people. I wonder if that Solipsism thing from Leo forum, was something I felt into.  TThis idea got really got into my head just before tripping. I was afraid of it... so it happend.


Since then, I question everyone and everything, if there are even there.

What is this "I", "me", "my"?

Solipsism will be no more once you know.

But first, go do something fun, recharge. Ground yourself and recover.

Climb a mountain and then ask if it's real 😂

[Faith]

Awe, hun 💕 It'll be okay. As Rupert says "solipsism is madness" and like I said on Actualized (Ananta here🙋‍♀️) no one can change or stretch the definition of Solipsism to fit their own narrative or agenda. Saying "absolute" solipsism is a terrible pointer and needs thrown out immediately!!!

💙

[Joseph Maynor]

Do people who claim solipsism is true act like it is so?  If not, why is that?  

[Nyingpo]

I feel theres alot of explaining on the non dual /wisdom paths of the fear thats encounted when glimpses of the dissolution or unfindableness of a separate self arise, but not much on the area of the same dissolution of otherness that can be revealed . 

Its equally as fear producing and theres a strong backswing of trying to grasp the old and also deal with the ramifications of the new.  Meaning if others arent "really" there as separate identities with edges and qualities,  then that crumbles so much of the way we relate,  and has such strong impact on our reasons for doing etc.  Big glimpses bring big swingbacks  of fear and ramifications. 

But just like big ego death glimpses take a while of dealing with the fear swingback so does otherness death glimpses.  Theres a new way of seeing that can be revealed,  and the swings can be held in love and gentleness.  

The death glimpse of otherness can bring strong arising of Im the only one,  its just a grabing hold that happens, but  surrendering and opening helps. 

In the end youre already where you and I are and it will always be us and all.  One soup.  Love

 

[Kevin]

Hey brother. Really glad you made this topic. This is something I’ve struggled with for a while so maybe I’ll have something good to say. One thing that really helped me is noticing that 99% of spiritual teachers say that truth is amazing and it seems as though peoples lives improve tremendously on the path. So I assume I must be misinterpreting something or missing the mark because getting deep into believing solipsism feels awful.

[Kevin]

Also just thought of this but if you are socializing with people you enjoy being around are you still worried about solipsism? Just curious because for me when I am having a lot of fun with people I don’t really think about solipsism. It feels good to connect even if I don’t know what’s actually going on the experience is still beautiful.

[Blessed2]

8 hours ago, Forza21 said:

But maybe, i need to trust my feelings? Maybe it's time to get out of my head, and thoughts, and go straight to the heart?: )

Yes, this sounds good to me. 🙂

"Trusting your feelings" means allowing yourself to feel. Daily meditation, opening up and expressing honestly and authentically.

Allowing feeling is 'plunging toward life', rather than endlessly tread thick and heavy conceptual jungles: "existential rumination" as Phil often calls it.

I'd say don't be too philosophical and 'clinical'. Maybe there is nothing you need to know or to understand. Maybe there is just letting more and more and more of feeling and wellbeing come to you, and fill your life. Rather than philosophizing, loosen up a bit and bring in some magic. Maybe check out what crystal stones feel like. Charge them in full moon light. See what this childlike playingness with magic of nature, water, sun and moon, feels like. Maybe stuff like this could be a good way to plunge toward feeling and life, rather than 'hold back' and ruminate.

"These nursing babies are like those who enter the kingdom"  - Jesus

"Happiness is the absence of distance between our self and our feelings."  - Rupert Spira

[Phil]

18 hours ago, Forza21 said:

But maybe, i need to trust my feelings? Maybe it's time to get out of my head, and thoughts, and go straight to the heart?: )

Beautiful. 🙏🏻