What is nonduality?

[Blessed2]

What is nonduality?

 

What is spirituality / the path? What's the point?

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Blessed2

[Lotus]

15 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

What is nonduality?

 

No idea. 😄

 

15 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

What is spirituality / the path? What's the point?

 

Human invention to recognize that you are the creator creating creation.

Once the creator recognizes itself as itself, the question "What's the point?" will seem ridiculous and hilarious. It makes perfect sense from the typical human perspective to ask that question, and I'm frequently thinking myself, "The fuck is this even?". A huge paradoxical nonsensical twisted mindfuck for me, but laughable, simple and crystal clear for the G. So I regress. 

[Mandy]

Life is way better, and a sort of satisfaction all in and as itself with no point. No point is freedom to create. When you think there is a point, it seemingly stops being satisfying, and the satisfaction really is the "point". 

[Faith]

19 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Nonduality in the Advaita Vedanta sense means not two.  A-dvaita.  "A" is the alpha-privative or the negation.  "Dvaita" means two.  

 

This is typically meant to collapse the subject-object duality.  The subject is some noun or pronoun like me, you, us, it, who, they, we, this, that.  Object is "the other" which is also a noun or a pronoun. 

 

So, duality works like this --  subject + object.  Me + you.  Me + this rock.   

 

In contrast, nonduality takes away the + sign so subject and object fold in on each other.

 

So, this here ^ does collapse the  subject/object "in" the apparent duality, however the next step is to realize that non-duality or "not two" means that awareness (the Self) is the only true "subject", because all objects (subtle and gross) are insentient (mind/body) reflected awareness. They only seemingly are conscious when awareness reflects off the subtle-body. The world is only "apparently" real, an illusion, a mirage "within" the subject, awareness. So, "not two" is pointing to the fact that there is only "the Self", awareness.

 

 

[Zeroguy]

9 minutes ago, Faith said:

 

So, this here ^ does collapse the "apparent" subject/object "in" duality, however the next step is to realize that non-duality or "no two" means that awareness (the Self) is the only true "subject", because all objects (subtle and gross) are insentient (mind/body). They only seemingly are conscious when awareness reflects off the subtle-body. The world is only "apparently" real, an illusion, a mirage within the subject, awareness. So, "not two" is pointing to the fact that there is only "the Self", awareness.

 

 

The World is not illusion .Illusion/Real collapses too.

Everything is actual Love.

For Awareness there is no birth/death.

When body dies you will become Actual formless Infinite Love.

[Kevin]

1 hour ago, Faith said:

 

So, this here ^ does collapse the  subject/object "in" the apparent duality, however the next step is to realize that non-duality or "not two" means that awareness (the Self) is the only true "subject", because all objects (subtle and gross) are insentient (mind/body). They only seemingly are conscious when awareness reflects off the subtle-body. The world is only "apparently" real, an illusion, a mirage within the subject, awareness. So, "not two" is pointing to the fact that there is only "the Self", awareness.

 

 

I love what you wrote. I’m just curious about something that trips me up a lot. I get confused because I am aware so I am awareness yes? If I am awareness and I am aware of you then you cannot also be that same awareness right? Because you would be an object of my awareness? Perhaps where I am getting lost is thinking that I, in particular, am  awareness when really there is just awareness and no one specifically who is aware? But it really seems like I am aware.

 

sorry for all the questions I’m just very confused.

[Phil]

Awareness is only aware of awareness. 

But, not two. 

(The “of” could be mistaken to imply two awarenesses.)

 

 

[Kevin]

On 4/23/2022 at 2:46 PM, Blessed2 said:

What is nonduality?

 

What is spirituality / the path? What's the point?

 

 

 

No idea honestly. I’m so lost and confused. And I’m not as frustrated or angry it. It’s almost fine that I’m confused and that I don’t know anything. I read what Phil wrote below about awareness and not two and I metaphorically threw my hands in the air in confusion.

 

I don’t know shit, I have no clue what’s going on, I don’t know what the point of it all is. Anyone else as confused?

[Faith]

3 hours ago, Kevin said:

I get confused because I am aware so I am awareness yes?

 

Yes, every-thing is awareness (even if its apparent), but then we need to discriminate who "I" is in this sentence? If its I/me/ego or I/original awareness.

 

When I say awareness here I'm referring to original, nondual, attributeless awareness, otherwise what is manifest, subtle/gross, world is "apparent or reflected" awareness, like a mirage. 

 

So, if "I" in the sentence is ego, then that is apparent awareness, that thinks it's conscious. You, original awareness, are the knower/seer of the ego. It's a subtle realization and takes time doing Self-inquiry to see. 

 

When you have discriminated/negated all that there "apparently" is, including the mind/thoughts, including ego, then you will be able to infer without question your true...Self.

 

3 hours ago, Kevin said:

If I am awareness and I am aware of you then you cannot also be that same awareness right? Because you would be an object of my awareness?

 

So, I get what your saying, but let me try to correct your thinking here. 

 

The "I" in this sentence is referring to ego. So, your ego is wanting to know if my ego is also "orginal" awareness. The ego's are awareness, but they are "apparent or reflected" awareness, not original.

 

Here is the correction:

If "I" in your sentence did mean original awareness, then the answer to that first question is, yes, "I" am original awareness  also. That would refer to Atman, which is that portion of Brahman that permeates the space of individual jiva's. 

 

As to your second question, the answer would depend on the order of reality (meaning) of both the words- "you" and "my" in the sentence. So, if "you" means the apparent person and "my" means orginal awareness, then yes, I would be an object in your awareness. If however, you meant the Atman (Brahman/Self) occupying space of the apparent person, then, no I'm not an object. I am orginal awareness as well. 

 

3 hours ago, Kevin said:

Perhaps where I am getting lost is thinking that I, in particular, am  awareness when really there is just awareness and no one specifically who is aware?

 

You are awareness AND there is just awareness! But, as I said, you probably need a bit of Self-inquiry to know what that means.

 

The mind/body/ego is awareness, but I'd say its apparent, because it is like a movie on screen, it doesn't have a independent reality of its own. It relies upon orginal awareness for its existence. It does exist, since it is experienced, it's just not real. "Real" meaning never changing, all pervasive, ordinary, attributeless awareness.

 

**FYI- I use words like "apparent", "reflective", "original" for discrimination purposes, etc. 

 

 

 

 

[Faith]

7 minutes ago, Kevin said:

I don’t know shit, I have no clue what’s going on, I don’t know what the point of it all is. Anyone else as confused?

 

I literally posted my response a few seconds after this. I hope I don't confuse you more. 🤷‍♀️

 

 

[Faith]

21 minutes ago, Kevin said:

I don’t know what the point of it all is

I forgot to comment on this. The point could be ending suffering (not pain, but suffering), recognizing you were never born and will never die or simply to know the truth of your true nature.

 

 

 

[Faith]

@Joseph Maynor no problem 💙

[Kevin]

3 hours ago, Faith said:

 

Yes, every-thing is awareness (even if its apparent), but then we need to discriminate who "I" is in this sentence? If its I/me/ego or I/original awareness.

 

When I say awareness here I'm referring to original, nondual, attributeless awareness, otherwise what is manifest, subtle/gross, world is "apparent or reflected" awareness, like a mirage. 

 

So, if "I" in the sentence is ego, then that is apparent awareness, that thinks it's conscious. You, original awareness, are the knower/seer of the ego. It's a subtle realization and takes time doing Self-inquiry to see. 

 

When you have discriminated/negated all that there "apparently" is, including the mind/thoughts, including ego, then you will be able to infer without question your true...Self.

 

 

So, I get what your saying, but let me try to correct your thinking here. 

 

The "I" in this sentence is referring to ego. So, your ego is wanting to know if my ego is also "orginal" awareness. The ego's are awareness, but they are "apparent or reflected" awareness, not original.

 

Here is the correction:

If "I" in your sentence did mean original awareness, then the answer to that first question is, yes, "I" am original awareness  also. That would refer to Atman, which is that portion of Brahman that permeates the space of individual jiva's. 

 

As to your second question, the answer would depend on the order of reality (meaning) of both the words- "you" and "my" in the sentence. So, if "you" means the apparent person and "my" means orginal awareness, then yes, I would be an object in your awareness. If however, you meant the Atman (Brahman/Self) occupying space of the apparent person, then, no I'm not an object. I am orginal awareness as well. 

 

 

You are awareness AND there is just awareness! But, as I said, you probably need a bit of Self-inquiry to know what that means.

 

The mind/body/ego is awareness, but I'd say its apparent, because it is like a movie on screen, it doesn't have a independent reality of its own. It relies upon orginal awareness for its existence. It does exist, since it is experienced, it's just not real. "Real" meaning never changing, all pervasive, ordinary, attributeless awareness.

 

**FYI- I use words like "apparent", "reflective", "original" for discrimination purposes, etc. 

 

 

 

 

I appreciate your response. I’m still confused but that’s ok honestly. 

[Kevin]

2 hours ago, Faith said:

I forgot to comment on this. The point could be ending suffering (not pain, but suffering), recognizing you were never born and will never die or simply to know the truth of your true nature.

 

 

 

I do think those are valid points to life. I was expressing that I don’t know what the point is because it seems like the point of life is whatever you believe it is. All sorts of people have different ideas of what the point of life is and it seems as though there’s no actual or ultimate point to it.

[Forza21]

@Faith any new realizations lately ? You write diffrent ☺️😀

[Faith]

6 hours ago, Kevin said:

I do think those are valid points to life.

No, what I wrote there weren't points to life, they were reasons someone would pursue the path to Self-realization. I guess I misunderstood what you were meaning when you said what's the point.

 

6 hours ago, Kevin said:

I appreciate your response. I’m still confused but that’s ok honestly. 

 

Ok. Yeah, what somone can understand often depends were someone is on the spiritual path. 

 

[Faith]

1 minute ago, Forza21 said:

@Faith any new realizations lately ? You write diffrent ☺️😀

No, writing the other "way", so to speak, was on purpose. Lol

[Phil]

What’s the point of going on a vacation?

 

[Indisguise]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

What’s the point of going on a vacation?

Going on a vacation. 

[Joseph Maynor]

There are other interpretations of how to deal with the issue of monality, duality, triality, and quadrality.  E.g., a triality would be this: past vs. present vs. future. 

 

Transduality is different from nonduality.   Transduality is different from duality.  

 

Aristotle: Finding the "middle way" between two ends of a duality, if such a middle way is best (and it isn't always).

Derrida: Finding the interplay and rupture between the ends of dualities, trialities, and quadralities.

Nonduality: Realizing dualities are an illusion from an absolute perspective.

Me: There's a "working with" between the poles of dualities, trialities, and quadralities.

Examples:

Monality: Love
Duality: Love vs. Hate; Subject vs. Object
Triality: Past vs. Present vs. Future
Quadrality: Important/Urgent vs. Non-important/Urgent vs. Important/Non-Urgent vs. Non-Important/Non-Urgent
 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Joseph Maynor