The Gateway, Teal Swan, and the message vs the teacher

[Devin]

33 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

So why the distinction that it's something women in particular want? 

She doesn't make that distinction, watch the end. The reason for the title is the rampant Neo-Feminist movement "female independence!"

[Orb]

10 minutes ago, Devin said:

She doesn't make that distinction, watch the end. The reason for the title is the rampant Neo-Feminist movement "female independence!"

They wanna be independent? Okay....next time you can't open the jar of mayonaise do it yourself. 

[Devin]

12 minutes ago, Orb said:

They wanna be independent? Okay....next time you can't open the jar of mayonaise do it yourself. 

Lol, they actually have their ways, when I first heard they used a knife I was afraid they were doing something crazy dangerous.

 

 

 

[Blessed2]

1 hour ago, Loop said:

Unintegrated early childhood trauma

 

If the world is like a dream-world, so that there isn't really a past childhood where trauma happened, but it's all dreamed Now, where is that trauma really?

[Loop]

@Blessed2

 

It is running in the nervous system right now.

It is there right now, running as drives and commands in the system.

Been writing about this stuff in the Picking Fruits thread if you wanna go deeper into it. 
It is about de-programming self-referential body-mind connections so the compulsions can drop and Love/ Presence is unveiled. 

 

I’m not saying you are doing this, but non-dual teachings can be the biggest trauma bypasses ever. 
Going to presences is part of the bamboozle. What will really happen is we will land on a belief/ memory, maybe from a genuine glimpse into the Absolute, and cling to that. Here is the possibility for dropping aversion and picking up inquiry, which really isn’t a thing. Trying to use those glimpses, is the landing, when the Heart is the start and the end of the path.

Repression is a verb thinking it is a noun, right now. All insights are nouns, presence is verbing.

The place where the insights come from is what is sought, Source. 
 

The tricky thing about truth is, when you cling to it, it becomes falsehood,

The only place truth really came from in a sense was looking into falsehood, de-conditioning/ de-programming. 

When we look into our darkness, what is unveiled is Light, when we try to cling to Light, it just slips through our fingers. 
 

[Loop]

@Jonas Long

 

Sure, I agree with you. It should be addressed. 
 

There are many teachers running around with their head chopped of their body because they don’t want to integrate from trauma. This is unconscious trauma. 
 

There are also those with trauma working with it, at the same time as helping others learn how to do the same thing. This is conscious trauma.
 

[Jonas Long]

1 minute ago, Loop said:

@Jonas Long

 

Sure, I agree with you. It should be addressed. 
 

There are many teachers running around with their head chopped of their body because they don’t want to integrate from trauma. This is unconscious trauma. 
 

There are also those with trauma working with it, at the same time as helping others learn how to do the same thing. This is conscious trauma.
 

In her case the trauma is so unconscious that there is an entire highly detailed fabrication.  And she does make this central to her appeal in a way, on her yt channel it starts with "survivor of severe childhood trauma" which I'm sure there was, but it certainly wasn't a satanic cult with child sacrifice like she maintains. 

[noomii]

 

[Mandy]

What's really intensely interesting IMO, is the assumed distinction between teaching and expression. Does the artist make art to heal trauma or must the artist have healed all trauma in order to be worthy of making art? I'd say art is healing trauma, and I'd say making youtube videos is an art. No one is taking art seriously, unless they believe that it's other than art.

 

I definitely see the problem of positioning oneself as a teacher/authority, but that itself is only possible with the cocreation of others positioning themselves as followers. Art is neither right nor wrong, it's either resonates or you pass over it for something that does. No one tries to force art into resonating if it doesn't. 

 

 

[Jonas Long]

29 minutes ago, Mandy said:

What's really intensely interesting IMO, is the assumed distinction between teaching and expression. Does the artist make art to heal trauma or must the artist have healed all trauma in order to be worthy of making art? I'd say art is healing trauma, and I'd say making youtube videos is an art. No one is taking art seriously, unless they believe that it's other than art.

 

I definitely see the problem of positioning oneself as a teacher/authority, but that itself is only possible with the cocreation of others positioning themselves as followers. Art is neither right nor wrong, it's either resonates or you pass over it for something that does. No one tries to force art into resonating if it doesn't. 

 

 

I get that, but an artist is always making art about themselves, it's always deeply subjective.  Is it the same with spiritual teachers, or is it meant to be more "objective", or focused outward? 

 

Personally I have a much easier time separating the art from the artist than I do separating the teaching from the teacher.  But maybe thats on me, idk. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Jonas Long

[Mandy]

15 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

I get that, but an artist is always making art about themselves, it's always deeply subjective.  Is it the same with spiritual teachers, or is it meant to be more "objective"?   

 

Personally I have a much easier time separating the art from the artist than I do separating the teaching from the teacher.  But maybe thats on me, idk. 

I listened to a fantastic Alan Watts video recently in which he said that the preacher, philosopher, doctor and teacher and other careers are held to these strict standards of how they should live their lives but since the artist isn't doing anything "important" or deemed important they can do whatever they like. The artist is just the fool and they are free. And yet high society will support the artist and enjoy the art. 

 

I really think the key is making art, enjoying art and realizing that it is all art. The taking it so seriously is forgetting one's own creation. Like I said somewhere else, I don't love every song by almost every single musician but I just listen to the songs I love and give no thought of judgement to what songs I don't like. 

 

Why is spirituality taken so seriously? It's almost like anything BUT it would have far, far less resistance and judgment from people. This sounds like a really dumb statement, but is it because it's taken so seriously, that it's taken so seriously? And this whole time it's just been for fun, like the message is, "it's for fun, ENJOY! And it's already perfect *chefs kiss*, keep on creating" and the pointer is ALSO THAT?! 

 

Like GODDAMN. All that for nothing????

 

Source be like... Yep. 

 

[Mandy]

I suppose that the directions to heaven would be super high stakes, if there were a located heaven and a located hell. What if there was a mistake in them? And I suppose you'd really need to trust the person guiding you, the person who wrote the instructions. But then you'd sorta have to deduce that if the person who wrote them knows where heaven is, then they left it to go sell you the directions. That's super sketchy. 

 

"The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”  -Jesus

 

This is it Jesus, REALLY? I thought it would be less colorful, and more like a tastelessly decorated boring AF mansion or some shit. 

 

I guess it's that disappointment and hopelessness are really boundless love and joy that's a hard sell, cause it's absolutely not what you thought it would be. Which is WHY NO ONE IS LEAVING IT to sell you on it. How could you leave if it's within you? And that is why there is simply no exclusion. There's no final master piece, there's just unthinkable peace. 

 

[Jonas Long]

@Mandy why do you think being a spiritual teacher lends itself more to having a cult than, say being a painter?  And why are those types of cults usually the most dangerous, or are they even?

[Mandy]

1 minute ago, Jonas Long said:

@Mandy why do you think being a spiritual teacher lends itself more to having a cult than, say being a painter?  And why are those types of cults usually the most dangerous, or are they even?

I think it's because the tendency for distraction (or a better word is aversion) is so high stakes in that the more spiritual things are considered the more keenly guidance is felt. The more keenly guidance is felt, the more the temptation to avert from it. The more you desire something the more keenly you'll feel it when you think in opposition to it. And spirituality is pointing to the very root Desire itself, where desires go to die via la petit mort/go Home like a moth to the flame. 

 

[Blessed2]

11 hours ago, Loop said:

I’m not saying you are doing this, but non-dual teachings can be the biggest trauma bypasses ever. 

 

IMO non-dual teachings are very much on point in terms of trauma.

 

If the nervous system in which the trauma is, was of the dream-world, where would the trauma really be?

 

If in a dream-world there would appear to be someone else who has trauma in their childhood or nervous system, where would that trauma really be?

 

How many traumas is there?

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

9 hours ago, Jonas Long said:

@Mandy why do you think being a spiritual teacher lends itself more to having a cult than, say being a painter?  And why are those types of cults usually the most dangerous, or are they even?

 

I don't think that's true.

 

Cults form everywhere from politics, to activism, to nationalism, the only difference is that those subjects are perceived as "real", so belief in such causes is seen as valid and normal, whereas spiritual stuff is seen as spooky and irrational. If you strip away the belief though and just look at the behaviour then there is little difference IMO. In regard to the inherent danger then I don't see anything special about spiritual cults compared to political ones - go look at the bodycount in Maoist China or North Korea (both fit all the criteria for a cult) and you will see that spiritual cults have rookie numbers in comparison.

That's not to say we shouldn't be concerned about spiritual cults because I absolutely think we should, but I think we need to start recognizing that cult-like behaviour is a bug/feature of human behaviour that is not exclusive to spiritual groups, and that such groups are a tiny fraction of those who are exhibiting that behaviour. 

[Mandy]

@Adeptus Psychonautica I agree, but it seems that in practice the word "cult" is usually only applied seriously to spiritual groups and is more jokingly used for secular groups like overzealous multi level marketing groups, political movements, enthusiasts of extreme diets, etc. But it is the same exact case of people being pressured in a group through the use of authority to adopt the same beliefs. You can't ever reform or stop a group of people, change is only made by seeing through one thought at a time. The nature of thought is to trend and gain momentum in a certain direction, and once it gains a lot of it, it's really hard to stop. Social media now mirrors the tendency of thought with its algorithms. Google "hurricanes" once and now your youtube feed gives you an informational video on hurricanes, watch it, and your feed is full of natural disaster news. Cults are just a formation of that momentum running away. If you show people to select what it is they do want to give attention to, or to step away for a time to remember what that is, you've empowered them, and they also have no need of you for further guidance. No matter the nature of the group think, it's all just their own thought, they are selecting which to believe and discard. It only seems to have been fed to them. It wasn't fish that first discovered water, you have to remove yourself in order to see what you're in. 

[Loop]

@Blessed2

 

Just because everything is apparences doesn’t mean you shouldn’t deal with your shit. 
Yes, the collapse into the non-dual is important to understanding the Absolute, & Healing. 

Non-duality is important for healing trauma & repression to me yes, but siamotainously it is also the biggest trap.

”Cling to truth, & it becomes falsehood.” 

Grow up, waking up is important too, but just focusing on what is appearing as the appearance will not allow you to focus on what isn’t appearing to the apparence.

Everything flying out the back of the trunk without the headlights on. Looking into the darkness & confusion is turning the headlights on. 
Going back to “It is all dream!” is the unintegrated child wanting to play in neverland forever. 
“Understand falsehood & it becomes truth” 
 

This is magical, but also grow up so you can actually be free,
Free from even the thoughts of this being dream,

Return to the marketplace. 
 

Allow all lenses, & the non-lens.

It is the compulsion to go to the Absolute perspective all the time that I am talking about de-programming right now. 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Loop

[Loop]

13 hours ago, Jonas Long said:

In her case the trauma is so unconscious that there is an entire highly detailed fabrication.  And she does make this central to her appeal in a way, on her yt channel it starts with "survivor of severe childhood trauma" which I'm sure there was, but it certainly wasn't a satanic cult with child sacrifice like she maintains. 

Yeah, I haven’t actually listened to her much, always felt off to me. 
 

Wrapping your identity around trauma is another topic too, really sneaky way of repressing & never actually healing. 
 

I feel we should be allowed to express however we want, truth becomes more of an art after so called Realization. It is interesting what some of us seem to do with the glimpses we have got. Also there are more integral teachers coming online, who can see straight through this stuff, they just aren’t  as popular. 

Who really wants to look at trauma and repression. The answer is, no-one, it is fucking repression that is how it works.
So this is where non-duality can be seen to be the gateway into healing, as well as the biggest trap well clinging to glimpses.

Nobody wants to look at the repression, they just wanna chase the Light. 
Ground ourselves back into the Earth.

Go crazy, let yourself be a human being.

 
We can learn so much from the craziness. 
Old saints & sages are nothing but shit on the bottom of my shoe. 

Standing on the shoulders of giants.
 

[Devin]

1 hour ago, Loop said:

 

It is the compulsion to go to the Absolute perspective all the time that I am talking about de-programming right now. 

 

Yeah it's often used as a way to 'hide' from 'lower emotions'.

 

It's a great coping mechanism when you're at the brink though, but why use it if you're not that bad, why not experience.

 

It's sort of like you said earlier about other teachings, it's reprogramming not deprogramming, Absolute deprogramming would be just enjoying, experiencing.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Devin