Forza21 Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 (edited) There are times like today, where i really can't see any point in all of this. Why so much suffering over nothing? It is all NOTHING. Pure emptiness. There's no me, you, world, time, space, nothing at all. At yet, we are here, clueless, left to get sick, suffer and die. And it doesn't even matter, at all, all of it didn't really happend. So why so much suffering? I can't really find anything i want to do in so called "relative life" . I know it is all gonna bring unsatisfaction anyway, and it will be gone in no-time. No trace left. So just just sit and meditate, but still it doesn't make any sense. There's nothing to gain, nothing to lose, so why so much suffering? so much trying and struggle? over nothing! why sickness, disabilites, death of relatives it doesn't make any sense unless "void" is sadistic in nature, how's it even possible it's "uncoditional love?" maybe it's all hell and we tall overselves stories that it's diffrent. Edited June 5, 2023 by Forza21 Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 Who suffers? What is suffering? Quote Mention If you immediately know the candlelight is fire, then the meal was cooked a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someone here Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 To me.. life is pointless to the extent that there's nothing predetermined in your existence. But this means freedom too. When your older.. you can shape your own path. Do things you enjoy.. maybe make a carrier out of that or just find something new you're passionate about and want to pursue in future. This helps you from getting stuck in a job you despise.as one example of a dead end life. Point is.. you shape your own future.. you are the point of your own life. The best thing to do is surround yourself with others that hold the same views as you and life will become more enjoyable. Don't get depressed over anything. it's not worth it. You just have to realize why things happen the way they do and accept it and you'll have a better sense of what goes on around you than most people. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James123 Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 @Forza21 self can not realize that it is nothing, self can say that i am nothing, but still the self. Self can be drop and just be that's what being nothing is, then realization of life happens it is not the actual life, it is the actual Love. Quote Mention "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartdominance Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 @Forza21 seeing life as pointless is simply because someone is making the choice knowingly or unknowingly to live a choiceless life. I know what its like to be plagued by a nervous system that cannot get out of what is denial based justification as a substitute for choice based living while masquerading as choice based living. Our brains have a purpose, our hands have a purpose, our skin, organs, etc,etc and if someone thinks not, let's let the divinity of existence start subtracting one of those one by one or the inverse of that let's let divinity take away the external environment piece by piece and we'll soon start admitting to how "no you can't take this or that I or we need it for this and that" in the general positivism sense (outside of getting rid of all the noise we don't need). In so saying as much, I've realised that sometimes this is just a sometimes necessary state one needs to go through in order to appreciate the inverse to its full level, if I didn't have the deep seeded myopic depressive ignorance I went through following the passing away of my father. Even though he wasn't the perfect guy as I so far partially imply on the second page of my Books journal he still lived a very courageous life and came at a great loss to all our family and lives as an inspiration to our whole family line as I will be with those brothers that are contributing outside of so far encouraging me to the the writing of his memoirs. This in short, to instruct present to potential future generations to come based on his life experiences that we piece together through his impact on us as well as being a means for all of us to find closure for both the life we lived with him and the life we're now living after his physical existence in this particular dimension of reality. It's much more difficult for me to speak wisely on this subject if I haven't gone through it and my very realising of this demonstrates the lesson to me simultaneously how important it is to simulate alternate realities to our own. This to not only provide unique scopes on our present reality but also to generate an enlightened true scope on the reality of another through our empathy. Which, when paired with both the feeling of our actualisation, that of another and the distinction in our realities the larger shared reality in which we live, compassion in that distinction is much more possible. That without, "You are a rock that I am telling I am right" and you are wrong and if you don't believe me, I'm either walking away, skimming your rock against the water or pretending that I'm different by acting like the rock you're being like and crashing up against you until we both destroy one another non-sensically. True power comes from the power of observing not only what is there but the being who is observing it as well so that there exists the power to transcend the paradigm in which that observation is occurring, this is how true generals win true wars and too, those wars that should never occur in the first place, even if it does give us wisdom to go through those experiences that without other wisdom would be much more difficult to realise. Much could be the same with respect to our less than ideal states. Most people on Earth fight a daily struggle between the internal world, the external world and searching to find the ideal alignment between them both while trying to cope with the dissonance of wondering whether they're on the right path or not. Throughout this "Idealism Lock" occurring psychologically within they're pressured by life to find resolves through wars they would have been better without than having to of gone through that suffering in order to realise that wisdom, especially because as we all know of course, many people don't make it out of some of those "Idealism locks" they're in within their present paradigms. Sometimes and in some demographics a lot of the time, very sadly it almost seems inevitable that those idealism locks become increasingly more difficult to unlock by the day as the person experiences more suffering, more dissonance and more negative growth on the intelligence they need to get out of the manifolds of entrapment as negative choice becomes more and more confusing and positive choice more and more difficult to see and more obscured through the layers of perception and the origins in which our choices play out in consciousness through the veil of truth we're being asked to make choices through. So we ask ourselves, why on earth is their so much suffering in the world and how on earth is it at all divine if so much of the time these pressures turn into inevitable grim reapers that not only take us by the dozens and destroy networks of social love but even massive atrocities that takes us by the billions even if it is the degredation of our collective cognition through poor technological inventions from social media to the popularisation of dumber and dumber films and the conditioning of the population through these means? That's a pretty good fucking question and I'm not going to sit here and pretend like I have the ideal answer, I don't, however what I do know, is that obviously, not being born under absolutely perfect conditions and not born as an absolutely perfect being then going through the process of learning how to go through experiences which test my resolve. This test functions as a challenge to my awareness so that I learn to appreciate awareness and make greater insights that favour awareness when I compare what happens when I fail to appreciate and make distinctions between the truth of my perception vs the truth of preference relative to the truth of reality and what historically shows. Understanding experiences of the negative and the positive leads to my appreciation of the difference between the wars that must be fought like our war within and our battle with life wisdom and the wars that must be avoided after experiencing their consequences. Months before my father passed away, both he and I didn't appreciate each other nearly as much as we did drawing closer to his passing and me after his passing along with the legacy that he truly left behind for me in my memories and for me to look at honestly and learn from so that I don't have to repeat the same mistakes he did. This is at our highest awareness how we're meant to generationally respond to our elders experiences but of course as we know it can be difficult to do this when we're stuck in some variation of ego and are not able to empathise, distinguish between one another's realities in the way described above where an intersection in consciousness between us results in the unity that not only bonded us in the first place but also bonds us to the greater future we're meant to create from us learning from each other's experiences as honestly, respectfully, honorably but also as dominantly and powerfully as we possibly can, just as the highest wisdom of our ancestors would have wanted. The contrast of present life can sometimes act so paradoxically to the contrast of the life we have lived over our entire lives and this really fucking hit me big time as I reflected on my father's life and his passing, where, beneath that separation created by less than ideal appreciation even though it lives in the denial of the past, ironically, its living in the greatness of the future we still must create which is why the less appreciation existed to begin with. These choices about appreciation or less than, are not always conscious and most of the time from appreciation to many other emotional and energetic spectrums with great existential implications they're quite extremely irrational, like extremely, extremely, extremely irrational, however we need to learn overtime to both appreciation their function for informing us what greatness its pointing us towards in its existence in the first place, aka understanding its purpose like our hands, eyes, etc, like the balancing vs juxtaposition of the masculine and feminine, and secondly, learning overtime to live through those irrationalities through our highest wisdom, therefore bringing them balance and rationality when looked at from a larger reference frame. That larger reference which has brought me both understanding and disappointment when I think about the life I've lived with my father and my family, as well as anger to incredible gratitude at both myself and external circumstances, which in the interplay of learning inside my consciousness that occurs, there is just an increasingly greater differentiation on what the truth was so that I carry that into my life actions, remembered as memories by those around me, so that they remember my legacy, as much as I now remember the complex legacy of my father in the highest deserving honor that my consciousness can generate. The contrast of suffering and seemingly meaninglessness that we all live was for me just denial based living for me to learn how to appreciate what its opposite looks like and how to distinguish between creating the war that I must live and bond myself to towards meaningful suffering vs the war of peace and understanding I work to create so that not only the legacy I leave behind can be easily bonded to but so that I create the necessary space, freedom and openness in my own consciousness to bond to the legacy left behind by others and the greatness they wish to move us all towards when we truly understand the highest examples they left behind of their love. Love of war, war of love. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 @Forza21 I don't have any advice but you're not alone, I feel the same way. Seems like not everyone is meant to have a happy ending, not everyone has the energy to keep going. But thats my opinion and its depressing, sorry. 😔 Quote Mention ♾️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solereproduction Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 6 hours ago, Forza21 said: Why so much suffering over nothing? So why so much suffering? there is a really simple answer, evolving works in series parallel energy flows between contracting combinations of molecular content and chromosome combinations, expanding new details never duplicated now each occupying space specifically as existing here now. Called evolving in plain sight. Understand the dynamics to limited to mutually evolving forward one at a time now compared to the history of humanity saying life cannot be limited to current evolving results and always has been. 5th generation reproductions specifically replaced their previous 4 numbering 16 great great grandparents, 8 great grandparents, 4 grandparents, 2 parenting the arriving great great grandchildren. I don't include siblings that don't become 1 of 16 great great grandparents to the algorithm in occupying space is an equal adapt or become extinct situation regardless plant or animal, predator or prey offspring, asexual, male, female ancestor by how the species has the numbers present. it is a universal constant now exceptions physical evolving scenario. Peace arrives when everyone understands the common displacement since conceived between inception of this species and no more arriving great great grandchildren changing population forward now. Oops, intellectual Schrodinger cat is out of the box. Guess I will get in trouble again for being completely honest about the global situation. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almond Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 what's that saying again.. can't have sunshine without a little rain. Or rainbows without those clouds. It might be about yin and yang thing, and if you saw the depths of an ocean, it's different than surface level water where the dolphins leap and swim into the sunset. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almond Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 6 hours ago, Pluto said: Who suffers? What is suffering? sorry but your hakuna matata picture is sending me .. ❤️ Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 @Forza21 Appreciating the inspiration. Reading this inspired some retooling & connecting of dots, thank you. https://community.actualityofbeing.com/topic/460-suggested-methods/ On 6/4/2022 at 3:07 PM, Phil said: Overview: The Ten Ox Herding Pics. Utilize the forum, make threads, ask questions. Suggested Methods: Create a Dreamboard. Fill it, see & use it daily. Daily morning meditation. Start with 5 mins, increase daily by 5 mins. Daily use of an expression journal. Expression is ‘getting out of your own way’, non-aversion. Allowing the Light from within & illuminates the truth. Allow Source to take out the garbage. Employ the technique of Improv Writing. Aligned diet, one small change at a time. Try the Loophole Shake. Create a Calendar. Creating the event on a calendar is creating the experience. So say you & so shall it be. Add some cathartic healing expansive modalities & stoke Creativity. Inspect thoughts & beliefs using the backside of the dreamboard. Create a Dream Journal. Contemplate truth. Use the emotional scale each day to align thought with feeling & create consciously. Receive & share the Message Freely. Support Available: Utilize the forum and make threads, participate in the monthly group Zoom calls, and or request an individual session. “Choose love, choose love. Without this beautiful love life is nothing but a burden.” Rumi 7 hours ago, Forza21 said: There are times like today, where i really can't see any point in all of this. Why so much suffering over nothing? It is all NOTHING. Pure emptiness. There's no me, you, world, time, space, nothing at all. At yet, we are here, clueless, left to get sick, suffer and die. And it doesn't even matter, at all, all of it didn't really happend. So why so much suffering? The suggested methods could be called a suggested path. But then of course why wouldn’t it just be called a suggested path in the first place? It’s because the word path carries some connotations about getting somewhere. Getting to a better experience. Attaining some thing. Realizing some thing. Improving your self, raising your consciousness, getting to that next level, etc… all manors of implying This isn’t It / such that happiness is obtained… in a future. It’s called methods because it’s not a path to anywhere, anyone or anything. It’s not even a way to change anything, sans of course your mind as it were, as in alignment / ‘seeing reality as is’. The methods are methods of uncovering, unfettering, un-obscuring what already Is. When I read the op, it reinforces the methods, as the suffering is not of what is, but what has already been added conceptually which stands to be dispelled. You’re made a thread, asking questions. ✔️ Dreamboard? Daily morning meditation? Expression journal? (Non-aversion? Letting Source take out the garbage? Improv Writing / “Yes… and”? How’s the diet? Opportunity for alignment? Tried the Loophole Shake? What’s on your calendar that you’re looking forward to? Any healing/expensive modalities? Inspecting thoughts on the backside of the dreamboard? Dream Journal? Contemplations / contemplating Truth? Using the emotional scale daily / aligning thought with feeling? (Vs expecting feeling to align with thoughts) Receiving the Message? Sharing the Message? Taking advantage of resources? (Forum, Group Calls / Sessions… in addition of course to all other resources available). A list can be daunting. “All this stuff I gotta do”. There’s nothing one needs to do. Full stop. Yet “here we are” as you say, and there can be a discordant experience of conditioning, conjecture; suffering. Taking a look & dispelling the suffering might be worthy of one’s time. In a daily sense, how much time… If there isn’t daily morning meditation the suggestion is to start with 5 minutes. Expression journal, spend however long you want, but let’s say maybe 10 minutes. Inspecting thoughts on the backside of the dreamboard, 10 minutes. Writing in a dream journal and returning to it later to ‘extract the juice’, the insights, the Message, maybe 10 minutes total. Using the emotional scale daily… likely 30 minutes the first day, and 5 minutes by the end of the first or second week, and happening automatically by the end of (with daily use) a month, maybe two. Going to the store, preparing & cooking… around an hour-ish. With adding in the Loophole Shake… the time factor is pretty much overall neutralized. 7 hours ago, Forza21 said: I can't really find anything i want to do in so called "relative life" . I know it is all gonna bring unsatisfaction anyway, and it will be gone in no-time. No trace left. So just just sit and meditate, but still it doesn't make any sense. There's nothing to gain, nothing to lose, so why so much suffering? so much trying and struggle? over nothing! why sickness, disabilites, death of relatives it doesn't make any sense unless "void" is sadistic in nature, how's it even possible it's "uncoditional love?" maybe it's all hell and we tall overselves stories that it's diffrent. When implemented, the dreamboard fills up pretty quick with wants, preferences, desires, etc. Seeing it from a visual (nonconceptual) vantage is quite different in that it all coalesces. It is an effortless & fun way of very literally seeing what one wants to do in so called “relative life”… which btw is purely conceptual and separative terminology. (There’s no such thing as a relative reality.) Knowing is the thought knowing. The knowing ‘it’ isn’t going to bring satisfaction is an overlooking of the activity of thought, and is not actually a knowing or not knowing of a future, and daily meditation (also effortless) reveals this simultaneously allowing clarity. ‘Two sides of the same coin’; the activity of thought, and clarity. If it isn’t ‘seen’ know, in spite of worldwide conditioning, meditatively it is inevitably ‘seen’ there are not two; a me and a knowing. Makes sense, at least as is used here, does not mean logically completes. Reality does not logically compute. Makes sense point to resonates. Sickness, disabilities and death of relatives are all beliefs. Thoughts, as labels. Like unicorn. This is already the case… doesn’t seem so? To Good to believe? Impossible that you’re being the whole show and not somewhere in a body? We arrive back at the methods, and that the orientation of is and has always been investigative & deconstructive, dispelling & releasing (expressive), and not an adding. If there was an experience, possibly involving psychedelics… but either way… the void is not being as in Self - the true nature - pure consciousness, but is appearance of. I sincerely feel for ya if that is the case, as the void is not a fun ‘place’ at all. This is why I often mention the 3-4g zone mushrooms wise is the no go zone (not implying that’s indicative of your experience, just as a reference). It’s essentially limbo. I would bet the majority of experiences of nihilism, despair & hopelessness on one’s path actually stemmed from “reaching” the void / limbo, being quite discouraged & disappointed, overlooking conjecture & the role it’s playing, and nobody realizing what’s going on in that regard. The experience of void without ‘the breakthrough’ to / of / as the true nature / pure consciousness is pretty dang horrible. It’s like looking at, going through, very literally, infinite being being creation - backwards. It only makes sense infinitely when it to, even the void, is dispelled. I can definitely see where it would seem like ‘hell’, but of course, that’s still apparent duality. The term “Nothing”…. No Thing. Not-a-thing… (Infinite) Emptiness is a pointer to the apparent finite mind & the emptying of (conditioning, conjecture, beliefs, etc). Again all methods are aligned with this. Nothing is synonymous with infinity, Self, Actuality, Fullness. As in, it turns out there are not ‘things’ or separation, and this is WONDERFUL (more ‘technically’, ineffable). Infinity, infinite (fullness) can not be thought as in thunk by the finite mind Fulness is appearing as. If there is suffering, as in a beef with reality / the true nature… it’s with thoughts about, and or an experience of void / limbo, and not actually with Self, the true nature, infinite being, infinity - Fullness. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 6 hours ago, almond said: sorry but your hakuna matata picture is sending me .. ❤️ That is the point ❤️ Quote Mention If you immediately know the candlelight is fire, then the meal was cooked a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forza21 Posted June 7, 2023 Author Share Posted June 7, 2023 On 6/5/2023 at 9:04 PM, Phil said: @Forza21 If there was an experience, possibly involving psychedelics… but either way… the void is not being as in Self - the true nature - pure consciousness, but is appearance of. I sincerely feel for ya if that is the case, as the void is not a fun ‘place’ at all. This is why I often mention the 3-4g zone mushrooms wise is the no go zone (not implying that’s indicative of your experience, just as a reference). It’s essentially limbo. I would bet the majority of experiences of nihilism, despair & hopelessness on one’s path actually stemmed from “reaching” the void / limbo, being quite discouraged & disappointed, overlooking conjecture & the role it’s playing, and nobody realizing what’s going on in that regard. The experience of void without ‘the breakthrough’ to / of / as the true nature / pure consciousness is pretty dang horrible. It’s like looking at, going through, very literally, infinite being being creation - backwards. It only makes sense infinitely when it to, even the void, is dispelled. I can definitely see where it would seem like ‘hell’, but of course, that’s still apparent duality. The term “Nothing”…. No Thing. Not-a-thing… (Infinite) Emptiness is a pointer to the apparent finite mind & the emptying of (conditioning, conjecture, beliefs, etc). Again all methods are aligned with this. Nothing is synonymous with infinity, Self, Actuality, Fullness. As in, it turns out there are not ‘things’ or separation, and this is WONDERFUL (more ‘technically’, ineffable). Infinity, infinite (fullness) can not be thought as in thunk by the finite mind Fulness is appearing as. If there is suffering, as in a beef with reality / the true nature… it’s with thoughts about, and or an experience of void / limbo, and not actually with Self, the true nature, infinite being, infinity - Fullness. Yes you can trust me - i am doing a work. Currently meditating for about 2-3h daily, doing emotion work, psychotherapy, improve classes. I might add also journaling. If it comes to void - i would like to ask you. I have experienced it, actually 3 times. Once on psychedelics, and 2 times during my sleep. One night, i recognized that i'm dreaming, and the whole dream started to collapse. I wasn't really fighting it, and i ended up in void - there was nothing, all black, only sense of "i am" was there. It wasn't fun at all, but after a while, i started to feel my legs, arms, head... and i ended up in "real" world, waking up. The one on psychedelics was much more traumatic. All the reality collapsed into the void, i was left alone. But when i said words to my GF " are you there?" all apparent creation came back. ( it's funny, similar to Bible "at the beginning there was the word"). So what is it, really? i don't really understand that description of backwards creation. Could you further explain? Also, there are some people saying, that consciousness is not a final step, it still subtle identification with something ( universal consciousness), when that's gone... well, there's just no-self, but also no god or divine at all. Adyashanti talked about this.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFqNaCCLVao&ab_channel=Adyashanti This is also in Buddhism described as "anatta". Does it make sense to you? I guess my issue is that i lack trust in reality sometimes. I am afraid, that it's all hell/ and core of reality is really bad, there's no "happy" ending in all of this, only big terror and disappointment. That's why i practice hard, and read a lot about spirituality, i just want to 'find out" what's really the truth. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConsciousDreamer666 Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 On 6/5/2023 at 12:28 PM, Forza21 said: There are times like today, where i really can't see any point in all of this. Why so much suffering over nothing? It is all NOTHING. Pure emptiness. There's no me, you, world, time, space, nothing at all. See it as a magical game, to pass time. You can ride it and enjoy it, or suffer it. The choice is yours Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 On 6/5/2023 at 1:28 PM, Forza21 said: So why so much suffering? Rather than thinking emotions like fear, guilt, anger, worry, doubt, pessimism, boredom etc. are problems to be solved, remind yourself that emotions are messages to be heard. The message is that you're focusing on thoughts that are not true about who you are and where you are. "This emotion is a message to be heard, not a problem to be solved." "Suffering is a message to be heard, not a problem to be solved." Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: Rather than thinking emotions like fear, guilt, anger, worry, doubt, pessimism, boredom etc. are problems to be solved, remind yourself that emotions are messages to be heard. The message is that you're focusing on thoughts that are not true about who you are and where you are. "This emotion is a message to be heard, not a problem to be solved." "Suffering is a message to be heard, not a problem to be solved." ❤️ Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 When I hear the phrase "it doesn't matter" I interpret it to mean that "it" doesn't ever become matter. It's as if "matter" was a verb an there were no nouns, only verbs. Mattering=appearing. Now. The essence of the verb is creative freedom, and creativity itself. There's no finality, no judgement, no making the call, no calling the shots. This art show is completely unjuried. There is only just Acceptance. This whole place is your giant lite bright. It doesn't matter what you make, what you create, it doesn't actually become matter, and the only real inhibitor to creative freedom is the believe that it does. But you know when you're doing it because it feels bad when you do. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 22 hours ago, Forza21 said: Yes you can trust me - i am doing a work. Currently meditating for about 2-3h daily, doing emotion work, psychotherapy, improve classes. I might add also journaling. Great to hear. 🤍 22 hours ago, Forza21 said: If it comes to void - i would like to ask you. I have experienced it, actually 3 times. Once on psychedelics, and 2 times during my sleep. One night, i recognized that i'm dreaming, and the whole dream started to collapse. I wasn't really fighting it, and i ended up in void - there was nothing, all black, only sense of "i am" was there. It wasn't fun at all, but after a while, i started to feel my legs, arms, head... and i ended up in "real" world, waking up. The one on psychedelics was much more traumatic. All the reality collapsed into the void, i was left alone. But when i said words to my GF " are you there?" all apparent creation came back. ( it's funny, similar to Bible "at the beginning there was the word"). So what is it, really? Infinite being is prior to and appearing as void, which is a veiling of itself, as itself, by itself, with itself… and therein appearing as creation (experience)… which is (still) itself. Infinite being is infinite being, and never actually “becomes” any finite thing such as a ‘separate self’ (for which there is an ‘it’ such as ‘a void’). Infinite being is unconditional love. That this isn’t unconditional love is a matter of conditions ‘held’, that there is some ‘thing’ other than, unconditional love. As trust is contingent on there being separate selves, and there isn’t separation & aren’t separate selves, trust seems to be, or be related to, a condition held. The ‘separate self’ is notable in that ‘it’ is never actually present, and is always believed to be in a past, future or other place (such as ‘in’ a void and or ‘in’ a past). Psychedelics and psychedelic experiences are also not separate ‘finite’ things, but are creation, appearance. Because unconditional love is unconditional & infinite, there is no ‘thing’ or ‘self’ which could assert upon unconditional love. If there is an experience of conditions, it can only be that unconditional love is ‘holding’ the conditions. This is not a problem in any way, as that would be no more than an additional condition ‘held’, and infinite unconditional love is already itself. 22 hours ago, Forza21 said: i don't really understand that description of backwards creation. Could you further explain? Creation isn’t backwards, creation is apparent. When apparent creation investigates the true nature, the source of creation, it is as if going backwards (inwards). It’s like the bulb of a movie projector shining its light & projecting a movie. A character of the movie would of course not be an actual separate entity in the movie, because the characters are movie. When a character of the movie investigates the true nature of “itself” / the movie, what’s found is there is no separate character and no (as a separate thing or object) movie. 22 hours ago, Forza21 said: Also, there are some people saying, that consciousness is not a final step, it still subtle identification with something ( universal consciousness), when that's gone... well, there's just no-self, but also no god or divine at all. Adyashanti talked about this.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFqNaCCLVao&ab_channel=Adyashanti This is also in Buddhism described as "anatta". Does it make sense to you? Yes, of course. This is (‘the’) common sense. Consciousness, awareness, infinite, unconditional love, anatta, etc - these are pointings. 22 hours ago, Forza21 said: I guess my issue is that i lack trust in reality sometimes. The ‘separate self’ of thoughts is more easily noticed to be thoughts - visually. On the backside of the dreamboard, were it written, “I guess my issue is that I lack” - visually, it’s easier to notice the thought implies there are two I’s, two selves. Nonduality points to ‘no second’, as in no second self, no second ‘thing’ (“reality”). Simply said - lack is a belief like unicorn and doesn’t actually exist. A ‘self’ referential (refers to a self which is lacking) belief. 22 hours ago, Forza21 said: I am afraid, A ‘separate self’ which does not experience emotions such as fear, and does not acknowledge the discord felt is actually intrinsic guidance for thoughts… for creating. A separate self which is described by a first self to be, afraid. At its most essential, the thought is a judgement of a nonexistant self (as afraid). Instead of the emotion being felt & acknowledged, attention goes to the activity of thought about a separate self which is afraid. It’s a ‘what you resist persists, what you inspect will acquiesce’ scenario. (To rest, find peace, be satisfied). Don’t try to solve or fix emotions such as fear. The ‘message’ tends to persist and get ‘louder’. Feeling into emotions is receiving the message which shines light on perspectives and interpretations, clarifying. 22 hours ago, Forza21 said: that it's A separate self for which there is an ‘it’… which is believed to be the cause of “that the second self is afraid”. 22 hours ago, Forza21 said: all hell A separate self for which there is a duality of heaven & hell. 22 hours ago, Forza21 said: / and core of reality is A core of reality & reality. 22 hours ago, Forza21 said: really bad, Good & bad. 22 hours ago, Forza21 said: there's no "happy" A separate self which is not happiness, for whom there is happiness and unhappiness… and no emotional guidance in this regard. 22 hours ago, Forza21 said: ending A separate self for which there is a beginning and an ending. 22 hours ago, Forza21 said: in all of this, only big terror and disappointment. A separate self for which there is not the emotional guidance (for thoughts) of fear, but rather big terror. 22 hours ago, Forza21 said: That's why i practice hard, and read a lot about spirituality, i just want to 'find out" what's really the truth. A separate self which is “the doer”. Would you walk into the woods without a compass? Would you drive across the country without gps? Would you appear as creation without intrinsic (un-removable) guidance (compass, gps)? If you’re lost in the woods, would you not rely on the compass? If you’re lost on the interstates, would you not rely on the gps? If you’re lost existentially, would you not rely on the intrinsic guidance? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 3 hours ago, Mandy said: ❤️ ❤️🥲 Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConsciousDreamer666 Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Blessed2 said: Rather than thinking emotions like fear, guilt, anger, worry, doubt, pessimism, boredom etc. are problems to be solved, remind yourself that emotions are messages to be heard. "This emotion is a message to be heard, not a problem to be solved." "Suffering is a message to be heard, not a problem to be solved." Well damn, i must be very fucking deaf, because I´ve been hearing messages for too many years and didn't understand anything. Just that pleasurable states I like a lot yolo, and that suffering states I run away like mad from them I respect you guys perspective but in my experience life is more crude and straight than that, there are pleasurable states and there are suffering states. God is so damn impersonal and nothing that if you don't find the right tools or skill to stop those suffering states (or emotions) and choose/produce the good ones, then transformation will not happen. but thats just my experience tho, if it works out for you guys ... Edited June 7, 2023 by ConsciousDreamer666 Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 @ConsciousDreamer666 There seems to be some confusion in regard to what’s being said. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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