Solipsism vs idealism vs realism

[Someone here]

There are many different kinds of philosophical Metaphysical worldviews regarding the existence of reality objectively that I want to discuss and flesh out truth from falsehood about. 

 

1-Solipsism : claims that the world is dependent on minds. That is, there is no external world outside of your mind going on, or the minds of other people. 

think of solipsism as the whole world being your own dream. Everyone is a character in your mind. They aren't real people. They are just fictions your mind is generating for its own amusement.

2-Idealism :  Think of  idealism as the whole world being the matrix. There are other, real, people, but the realities outside their minds are illusions, there are no objects external to the shared consciousness going on.

Most people these days are not solipsists or idealists, because the probability that either is true is rather low. 

3-Realism : there exists an external objective reality that is independent of your mind. When you die or fall asleep, the world remains in existence. Unfortunately thre is no way to prove that this is correct.. Since the only apparatus you have to interact with reality is conscious experience. And so you can't verify that the content of your conscious experience really exists when you cease being conscious of it.

 

Let's get a discussion going about these three worldviews. 

[Orb]

@Someone here No worldview is true.

[Someone here]

15 minutes ago, Orb said:

@Someone here No worldview is true.

What's the argument for that? 

[Orb]

12 minutes ago, Someone here said:

What's the argument for that? 

Thought will never tell you if you've discovered truth. Too much trust is put in thought. 

 

When it's believed that truth comes from conceptualization, the conceptualizing is endless and will never be satisfied. 

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Orb said:

Thought will never tell you if you've discovered truth. Too much trust is put in thought. 

 

When it's believed that truth comes from conceptualization, the conceptualizing is endless and will never be satisfied. 

Why? What's fundamentally flawed about thoughts that make it incapable of grasping truth? I understand that truth is bigger than any thought. But some thoughts can point into the direction of truth and some don't. Like the thought "it rains pink elephants" is faulty. However the thought "it rains water" is true. 

We label a thought as truth, when it comports with facts and reality, has proven to be valid time and again without fail, and we have no contrary evidence that it might be false. 

[Orb]

@Someone here truth is not "bigger" than thought, it just isn't a thought. 

 

You're stuck in a loop where you want knowledge to liberate you, and when you're told that it won't you want more knowledge to tell you why. 

 

the point is to let go of knowledge entirely, it hasnt served you then, it wont now. 

 

also, honesty is important.

 

Are you really interested in being free from suffering? Or are you more interested with playing with perspectives/ideas?

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, Orb said:

truth is not "bigger" than thought, it just isn't a thought. 

So truth cannot appear as a thought? What prevents it? 

2 minutes ago, Orb said:

You're stuck in a loop where you want knowledge to liberate you, and when you're told that it won't you want more knowledge to tell you why. 

I asked you a question and you didn't respond to it. What's fundamentally flawed about "knowledge", "thought", "Conceptualization" that makes it  futile in the pursuit of truth? 

4 minutes ago, Orb said:

The point is to let go of knowledge entirely, it hasnt served you then, it wont now. 

If you let go of knowledge entirely.. You wouldn't know how to use the toilet. 

5 minutes ago, Orb said:

Are you really interested in being free from suffering? Or are you more interested with playing with perspectives/ideas?

No. No "playing" is intended. Im genuinely curious about this subject and I want to know which way reality actually is. In knowing that, suffering will be dispelled because I suffer from solipsism. 

[Orb]

@Someone here

 

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

So truth cannot appear as a thought? What prevents it? 

 

Truth is unknowable. Thought is an appearance. 

 

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

What's fundamentally flawed about "knowledge", "thought", "Conceptualization" that makes it  futile in the pursuit of truth? 

 

Truth is sought because truth implies being freed from falsehood. Thought is a memory machine, it only produces memories. How can you be freed by using a memory machine? That's all it does, it just repeats sounds and images. 

 

10 minutes ago, Someone here said:

If you let go of knowledge entirely.. You wouldn't know how to use the toilet. 

 

Let go of knowledge and see if you can use the toilet. 

 

11 minutes ago, Someone here said:

No. No "playing" is intended. Im genuinely curious about this subject and I want to know which way reality actually is. In knowing that, suffering will be dispelled because I suffer from solipsism. 

 

This is the loop I'm talking about, really read this part you posted ^ . 

 

You say you suffer from solipsism (the beliefs) yet at the same time you want another world view to replace it. 

 

The way reality actually is will never be in a thought, it will never be communicated to you. 

 

You're not gonna LEARN it. 

 

[James123]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

There are many different kinds of philosophical Metaphysical worldviews regarding the existence of reality objectively that I want to discuss and flesh out truth from falsehood about. 

 

1-Solipsism : claims that the world is dependent on minds. That is, there is no external world outside of your mind going on, or the minds of other people. 

think of solipsism as the whole world being your own dream. Everyone is a character in your mind. They aren't real people. They are just fictions your mind is generating for its own amusement.

2-Idealism :  Think of  idealism as the whole world being the matrix. There are other, real, people, but the realities outside their minds are illusions, there are no objects external to the shared consciousness going on.

Most people these days are not solipsists or idealists, because the probability that either is true is rather low. 

3-Realism : there exists an external objective reality that is independent of your mind. When you die or fall asleep, the world remains in existence. Unfortunately thre is no way to prove that this is correct.. Since the only apparatus you have to interact with reality is conscious experience. And so you can't verify that the content of your conscious experience really exists when you cease being conscious of it.

 

Let's get a discussion going about these three worldviews. 

Realism;

 

If you really believe that you are alive, what could be reason of it? Don't forget end of day you will die and nothing is sustainable. 

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, Orb said:

Truth is unknowable.

How did you know that it is unknowable? See the irony in such statement? 

9 minutes ago, Orb said:

Thought is an appearance. 

Yes. An appearance of what? Of Truth of course. Since Truth is all there is. 

9 minutes ago, Orb said:

Thought is a memory machine, it only produces memories. How can you be freed by using a memory machine? That's all it does, it just repeats sounds and images. 

 

So you are basically saying thoughts are just meaningless repetition of sounds? So you want to say that language itself  holds no absolute meaning because it's just gibberish? 

9 minutes ago, Orb said:

Let go of knowledge and see if you can use the toilet

How to use the toilet is known. So if we erase all knowledge from your mind. How would you know how to use the toilet? You would have to learn it again from ground zero. 

 

10 minutes ago, Orb said:

You say you suffer from solipsism (the beliefs) yet at the same time you want another world view to replace it. 

 

The way reality actually is will never be in a thought, it will never be communicated to you. 

 

You're not gonna LEARN it. 

This is consistent with your other arguments. But I need more elaboration please. 

If Truth cannot be reached via thought... Then it can be reached via what?  Direct consciousness, right?  But if we stick with direct consciousness, then it's obvious that solipsism is true because you can only be conscious of your own experience. What do you think? 

 

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, James123 said:

Realism;

 

If you really believe that you are alive, what could be reason of it? Don't forget end of day you will die and nothing is sustainable. 

I'm alive because I can experience being alive. Don't you dare coming up with "if you didn't learn being alive, would you be alive"? 😂

Well.. I've reached recently a new level of skepticism that I'm not sure if I ever gonna die lol

[Blessed2]

If you could choose whatever you'd like reality to be, what would you choose?

[James123]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

I'm alive because I can experience being alive.

So what about others? The world people, animals etc..

[Someone here]

22 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

If you could choose whatever you'd like reality to be, what would you choose?

Realism. 

[Someone here]

19 minutes ago, James123 said:

So what about others? The world people, animals etc..

I don't know. I have access only to my own consciousness. How am I supposed to tell the difference between a dream cat and a real cat? 

[James123]

54 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I don't know. I have access only to my own consciousness. How am I supposed to tell the difference between a dream cat and a real cat? 

Question should be what is the common point of every action ? Firstly birth. 

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, James123 said:

Question should be what is the common point of every action ? Firstly birth. 

I don't understand what you mean by this. 

Do you mean that birth is the common factor between all living creatures? 

[ConsciousDreamer666]

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

There are many different kinds of philosophical Metaphysical worldviews regarding the existence of reality objectively that I want to discuss and flesh out truth from falsehood about. 

 

1-Solipsism : claims that the world is dependent on minds. That is, there is no external world outside of your mind going on, or the minds of other people. 

think of solipsism as the whole world being your own dream. Everyone is a character in your mind. They aren't real people. They are just fictions your mind is generating for its own amusement.

2-Idealism :  Think of  idealism as the whole world being the matrix. There are other, real, people, but the realities outside their minds are illusions, there are no objects external to the shared consciousness going on.

Most people these days are not solipsists or idealists, because the probability that either is true is rather low. 

3-Realism : there exists an external objective reality that is independent of your mind. When you die or fall asleep, the world remains in existence. Unfortunately thre is no way to prove that this is correct.. Since the only apparatus you have to interact with reality is conscious experience. And so you can't verify that the content of your conscious experience really exists when you cease being conscious of it.

 

Let's get a discussion going about these three worldviews. 

@Someone here Inspect there. You seem to assume that for Everyone to be a character in your mind, they must not be real people.

 

What if others are actually a creating of your own mind, but they also are 'real' people?

 

What is your definition of 'real' people???

 

 

[Blessed2]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Realism. 

 

Why? 🤔

[Someone here]

15 minutes ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

What if others are actually a creating of your own mind, but they also are 'real' people?

They can't be both. If  I'm creating them (in the same way I create others in a nightly dream) then they are not real people and imaginary simultaneously. 

16 minutes ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

What is your definition of 'real' people???

Having objective physical independent existence on their own outside of my direct experience.