Jump to content

Solipsism vs idealism vs realism


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Jonas Long said:

I know that, but cmon, your avatar is a horsie and you said "I say nay". Pretty hard not to make a joke out of that.  It's not like the post it came from merited any kind of serious response at all. 

That's your opinion.   It was a very serious question.   It was about the distinction between Truth and having to embody the Truth.   By the way - this distinction ultimately breaks down because embodiment is relative.  But Phil hinted as if embodiment was Absolute.   There is no such thing.  Embodiment is all around you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Robed Mystic said:

That's your opinion.   It was a very serious question.   It was about the distinction between Truth and having to embody the Truth.   By the way - this distinction ultimately breaks down because embodiment is relative.  But Phil hinted as if embodiment was Absolute.   There is no such thing.  Embodiment is all around you.

What is your point?  If the distinction breaks down, why is it a serious question? Why is it a question at all? 

Edited by Jonas Long
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Wasn't the question "what is the distinction?" So the answer is "the distinction breaks down", so great, so what.  What's the question? 

Again - the question- does Absolute Truth enslave the ego?  Does it entangle the ego at all?  Does it have anything to do with ego?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/27/2023 at 5:30 PM, Someone here said:

Think back when you were a little kid. When you started crying whenever your parents leave you alone. Something about loneliness feels depressing. 

 

On 4/28/2023 at 5:42 PM, Robed Mystic said:

Idealism and Solipsism are a duality that collapses.  But - note that both are language trying to capture reality.   Also note that it is not ego Solipsism but Absolute Solipsism.   While God or Consciousness can have human qualities, Consciousness will shatter the human barrier.  This is ego death and God Consciousness.  So Solipsism by its traditional definition is not a true picture of of God or reality.

 

8 hours ago, Robed Mystic said:

That's your opinion.   It was a very serious question.   It was about the distinction between Truth and having to embody the Truth.   By the way - this distinction ultimately breaks down because embodiment is relative.  But Phil hinted as if embodiment was Absolute.   There is no such thing.  Embodiment is all around you.

 

This isn’t actually seriousness or loneliness. Those are secondary conceptualizations. Essentially, justifications for the self conceptualizing of solipsism. Seriousness & loneliness are actually labelling discord of an illusory individual that knows solipsism is the truth (the ‘knower’). There is nothing serious or lonely about the truth. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

 

 

This isn’t actually seriousness or loneliness. Those are secondary conceptualizations. Essentially, justifications for the self conceptualizing of solipsism. Seriousness & loneliness are actually labelling the discord of the illusory individual that knows solipsism is the truth. There is nothing serious or lonely about the truth. 

Where did I agree that God was lonely.  Loneliness is but a thought.   The realization that you are Alone is Absolute.   It is a shock to God itself.   But only .You can awaken from this dream.   It is shocking and horrifying to the ego that you stand Alone.  But it is because you are God.  Dispute it to the end of time.  God does that. 

Edited by Robed Mystic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

This says it all.  Your intersections seem empty.  If you have lost patience- then explain how.  

Impatience points to the discord felt when the activity of thought about separate selves which have intersections or could lose patience, arises. The self reference projected often sounds like ‘I’ve lost my patience with ‘you’, or, ‘if you have lost your patience’. 

There is no actual experience of patience. Same for knowing & understanding, such as with solipsism. 

There only seems to be these separate things from the illusory subjective perspective of the separate individual. That self reference projected often sounds like ‘I’m a teacher and there are students’. 

 

 

29 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

Where did I agree that God was lonely.  Loneliness is but a thought.   The realization that you are Alone is Absolute.   It is a shock to God itself.   But only .You can awaken from this dream.   It is shocking and horrifying to the ego that you stand Alone.  But it is because you are God.  Dispute it to the end of time.  God does that. 

Same for seriousness & loneliness.

 

 

34 minutes ago, Phil said:

This isn’t actually seriousness or loneliness. Those are secondary conceptualizations. Essentially, justifications for the self conceptualizing of solipsism. Seriousness & loneliness are actually labelling discord of an illusory individual that knows solipsism is the truth (the ‘knower’). There is nothing serious or lonely about the truth. 

8 hours ago, Robed Mystic said:

That's your opinion.   It was a very serious question.   It was about the distinction between Truth and having to embody the Truth.   By the way - this distinction ultimately breaks down because embodiment is relative.  But Phil hinted as if embodiment was Absolute.   There is no such thing.  Embodiment is all around you.

Only seems so from for the individual, which there already isn’t. 

‘Embodiment is relative’ is again, two self conceptualizations. There only seems to be these from the illusory perspective of the individual. The distinctions don’t “ultimately breakdown”. These are ordinary lies essentially, which arise for the illusory individual of ‘teachers & students’. These conceptualizations are spiritual bypassing. All of the conceptualizations are bypassing, and inherently misleading, as it’s the purporting of nonduality from the perspective of the nonexistant separate self, for ‘whom’ there is anything ‘around’. There is already no separation. The is not “still separation for some people or students who are not awake”.  There is already no separation. This is already perfect, whole, complete. There is no one embodiment is around, as there is already no separation and therein some other thing such as embodiment. That’s just another self conceptualization. The activity of thought. Beliefs of the individual. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Phil said:

Impatience points to the discord felt when the activity of thought about separate selves which have intersections or could lose patience, arises. The self reference projected often sounds like ‘I’ve lost my patience with ‘you’, or, ‘if you have lost your patience’. 

There is no actual experience of patience. Same for knowing & understanding, such as with solipsism. 

There only seems to be these separate things from the illusory subjective perspective of the separate individual. That self reference projected often sounds like ‘I’m a teacher and there are students’. 

 

 

Same for seriousness & loneliness.

 

 

Only seems so from for the individual, which there already isn’t. 

‘Embodiment is relative’ is again, two self conceptualizations. There only seems to be these from the illusory perspective of the individual. The distinctions don’t “ultimately breakdown”. These are ordinary lies essentially, which arise for the illusory individual of ‘teachers & students’. These conceptualizations are spiritual bypassing. All of the conceptualizations are bypassing, and inherently misleading, as it’s the purporting of nonduality from the perspective of the nonexistant separate self, for ‘whom’ there is anything ‘around’. There is already no separation. 

No.  You are the one that is bypassing- leveraging fhe illusory self.    But remember Buddhism now- Buddhism speaks of the Self.   All of your arguments are void if we are talking about the Self.  Which we are.  Your brainwashing goes nowhere with me.  Your neo-advaitain speak falls on deaf ears.

Edited by Robed Mystic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

No.  You are the one that is bypassing- leveraging fhe illusory self.   

There is no ‘you’.

There is no separate self which is bypassing. 

There’s already no separate selves.

There isn’t an “illusory self” to leverage - or which is leveraging.

It only seems like there are these separate things from the illusory perspective (beliefs) of ‘the separate self’ (the activity of thought) projected onto already wholeness (no one). 

 

9 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

But remember Buddhism now- Buddhism speaks of the Self.   All of your arguments are void if we are talking about the Self.  Which we are.  Your brainwashing goes nowhere with me.  Your neo-advaifain speak falls on deaf ears.

There isn’t the ‘you’ of your arguments are void, or your brainwashing, or your neo-advaitin. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/3/2023 at 1:14 AM, Phil said:

 

You’re just avoiding the truth and not meeting people where they’re at. Kinda living in your own bubble. If you persist with your neo-advaitan teaching style of ‘it’s just a thought’ we’re gonna have a problem and I’m gonna have to ask you to leave. 

 

In our previous Zoom group calls last weekend I wanted to chime in with "Don't you people get it? all these concepts you seem to be tangled in are just thoughts!"

I got the impression from your words @Phil that this is the essence of the so-called teachings, but you were somehow held back from saying it out loud because of... reasons.

 

"It's just a thought" may seem dismissive or spiritual bypassing or whatever, but in my case this was the most decisive and liberating insight. And I'd guess it would be so for most "people". 

 

There's no liberation until the nature of thoughts is seen. Until that is seen, any "insights" or any concept-based, mind-based constructions will be just more of the same, adding to "the veil", "the person", "the spiritual ego". You may get better feeling thoughts and believe progress is made on "the path", until some life situation is generating more beliefs in the illusion, and the person will maybe try to fight it with spiritual concepts, not realizing that the concepts themselves are the trap.

 

Thoughts are not bad, or wrong, they are what they are... but most people do not know what thoughts are, they take them for granted, and believe that thoughts present reality as it is... the belief in thoughts is the veil. 

 

Story time... 6 months after breaking up with my girlfriend (and thinking I was doing pretty well getting over it), one morning I couldn't get out of bed for the amount of thoughts that was invading my mind about that past relationship ("I should have done this, she shouldn't have said that etc"), I was simply paralysed for about an hour... until the "thought" (ha!) appeared... wait a minute, all these are just thoughts, they have no real power, unless power is given to them... which I was doing for the past hour, believing that the thoughts represented actual reality. This thought was so liberating that immediately all the contracted energy stuck in thoughts was released and there was only this, the sensory perceptions, bodily sensations... a mini awakening if you want to call it that.

 

So @Phil my impression is that your teaching style lends itself more to dismantling concepts and observing thoughts and sensations and feelings which are not thoughts etc, (forgive me from improvising), whereas @Robed Mystic points more to the actuality of Absolute Truth (as opposed to the concept of..., but people that haven't realized the "it's just a thought" awakening would interpret horsie's words as the concept of Absolute Truth).

 

In the end, you're both pointing to the same no-thing with different methods, I found both to be extremely helpful.

 

anyway... my 2c.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@bnyland

Yes. That was just funny. 

Solipsism, like any ism or any teachers or teaching styles, is ‘just‘ the activity of thought. 

It’s not someone holding back, it’s that it’s conceptual. 

‘There is no liberation until the nature of thoughts is seen’, is of course also… conceptual. 🙂

All there is is liberation. No one ‘s ever liberated. 

It’s not that ‘most people don’t know what thoughts are’, it’s that there’s no knower (that there are ‘people’, which realize or have awakenings etc). 

What the individual can’t grasp is that there already isn’t one. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bnyland said:

 

 

 

"

Story time... 6 months after breaking up with my girlfriend (and thinking I was doing pretty well getting over it), one morning I couldn't get out of bed for the amount of thoughts that was invading my mind about that past relationship ("I should have done this, she shouldn't have said that etc"), I was simply paralysed for about an hour... until the "thought" (ha!) appeared... wait a minute, all these are just thoughts, they have no real power, unless power is given to them... which I was doing for the past hour, believing that the thoughts represented actual reality. This thought was so liberating that immediately all the contracted energy stuck in thoughts was released and there was only this, the sensory perceptions, bodily sensations... a mini awakening if you want to call it that.

 

 

Its very liberating indeed.  It sets you free because you can get so lost in thought without ever realizing it was a mind game you were playing.   But to break out of the game - well, that is something else indeed.  And then the power can be used almost at will.  Lucidity, if you will.  However in this it is also realized how scary the fact that it is all illusory- all created by your hungry and passionate mind.  A mind hungry to invent - to create a reality where you are a character in a show - a character that can feel pain, and love, and hate. A character that can argue on a spiritual forum claiming there aren't any characters.  

But then - you can wake yourself back up - and come back to the realization that these were all just a collection of thoughts.  You know when you do this though, that it will all end.   So maybe you decide to stay lost - and to forget that thoughts are what create reality.  And you go back to glorifying the atom.

Edited by Robed Mystic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By clicking, I agree to the terms of use, rules, guidelines & to hold Actuality of Being LLC, admin, moderators & all forum members harmless.