Why doesn't meditation work?

[Blessed2]

17 minutes ago, Mandy said:

Just download a Jane Austen book. 

 

Huh? 😂

[Mandy]

@Blessed2 Any classic literature. 

 

 

 

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

 

This distinction between what pessimism vs. boredom feels like is recognized.

 

Yeah I'm experiencing the emotion pessimism. Now seeing a bit clearer…..…..

Awesome. Full stop. Phone answered. Done. 

 

 

 

 

You’re present and aware… and the ‘historic self’ thought appears… it’s like pushing redial for no reason.

2 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

…how I've been kind of swimming in that pool for a long time.

… the ‘separate one in some thing’ (a pool & time). 

 

2 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

Though I don't see how to get out from there.

And though you’re present & aware, it’s like you’re the sep self of thoughts (thought attachment). The one in some thing which can’t get out from there (which was a pool). 

 

2 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

It's like I'm stuck. Like experiencing boredom would be impossible.

Present & aware… thought appears and it seems like you’re the one who’s stuck. The one who knows (what is and isn’t possible). 

(Still pessimism). 

 

See the ‘loop’: …sep self referential thought… pessimism….sep self referential thought… pessimism. 

[Blessed2]

1 hour ago, Mandy said:

@Blessed2 Any classic literature. 

 

 

 

 

😂🙏

[Blessed2]

54 minutes ago, Phil said:

Awesome. Full stop. Phone answered. Done. 

 

 

 

 

You’re present and aware… and the ‘historic self’ thought appears… it’s like pushing redial for no reason.

… the ‘separate one in some thing’ (a pool & time). 

 

And though you’re present & aware, it’s like you’re the sep self of thoughts (thought attachment). The one in some thing which can’t get out from there (which was a pool). 

 

Present & aware… thought appears and it seems like you’re the one who’s stuck. The one who knows (what is and isn’t possible). 

(Still pessimism). 

 

See the ‘loop’: …sep self referential thought… pessimism….sep self referential thought… pessimism. 

 

🤔🤔🤔

 

[Joseph Maynor]

The idea that meditation needs to involve rigorous technique is a trap.  
 

Try the Do Nothing Meditation.  It's actually not a trying when it becomes a habit.  You just lay down and set a timer for 2 hours.  Don't try to control but don't be against controlling either.  Watch but don't be the watcher.  Allow without clinging to allowing.  And then when you get really good at it, you don't need to bring any technique in.  You just sit, or in my case lie in my bed.  Meditation purists are going to hate this, and I know this because someone usually gets triggered when I mention Do Nothing Meditation -- almost every time.  It cannot be grokked that meditation can be so devoid of procedure for lack of a better word.  It's equivalent to people trying to make sense of one hand clapping, they just can't get it.  Well that's not a bug that's exactly the feature!  The feature goes over their heads, pun intended.  Also, you just do it, don't try to seek any results from it.

Edited June 4 by Joseph Maynor

[Jonas Long]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

The idea that meditation needs to involve rigorous technique is a trap.  
 

Try it the Do Nothing Meditation.  It's actually not a trying when it becomes a habit.  You just lay down and set a timer for 2 hours.  Don't try to control but don't be against controlling either.  Watch but don't be the watcher.  Allow without clinging to allowing.  And then when you get really good at it, you don't need to bring any technique in.  You just sit, or in my case lie in my bed.  Meditation purists are going to hate this, and I know this because someone usually gets triggered when I mention Do Nothing Meditation -- almost every time.  It cannot be grokked that meditation can be so devoid of procedure for lack of a better word.  It's equivalent to people trying to make sense of one hand clapping, they just can't get it.  Well that's not a bug that's exactly the feature!  The feature goes over their heads, pun intended.  Also, you just do it, don't try to seek any results from it.

Deja vu...

[Blessed2]

I have sat with it and I have expressed, punched pillows and everything. It's not helping. I'm literally just shouting the same things again and again. Nothing changes, I'm still feeling exactly the same.

 

What else is there to do than suppress?

 

[Mandy]

@Blessed2 What's your problem with Jane Austen? 

[Agape]

I think the problem is trying to lock in a result from meditation like being on a TV game show. It's like finding boxes to be in that look and sound certain. In truth it is actually like being blind in a room trying to find the light switch. The switch is there and you may be really clever and patient. But no one knows how much meditation or what meditation is right for you. I still have no idea if how I meditate is the right way for me. It may go terribly wrong. I try to be balanced about it. I try to do as much as I can, but not too much. There are probably hundreds of types of meditation. For years I was stuck because I believed only self-inquiry was the right way. Now I mainly work with my body. I stretch and practice mindfulness. The honest to God truth is that you have to be all in. Otherwise do something else, anything else. Some people just have to be entrepreneurs. There is just something in them that has to do that, regardless of any limitation. Most entrepreneurs fail and most companies fail. And all companies only ever last a set period of time. Any sensible person wouldn't bother. But I think we are not sensible people. There is something in us that has to know, more than we want to be alive. If I'm here, I only want to know what this is and how does knowing that feel? I heard someone once talk about Zen monks who go insane and get quietly ushered out of the monastery. That's the level. It's like that Charles Bukowski poem, "Go All The Way".  I still feel like shit. I'm still paranoid, depressed, anxious, stressed and miserable. But I don't want to do anything else other than dig into truth. Anything that I do other than that is just so I can get back to doing that. I've seen it so many times; when a person is really fucked, it just spirals further and further down. That's what my reality has been for years and years. So, I meditate. It's awful and painful and frightening. But I don't want to do anything else. I will probably never have a job again, have a girlfriend again, have a friend again. And I may never see Enlightenment in this life. But it's all I want. It's not pretty, it wouldn't make a good story, it's difficult and I may go insane. Do what you want to do. If all this malarkey is not for you, drop it. Walk away. Or maybe there is a meditation out there or inquiry, that speaks to you. Maybe. I have no idea. Everyone is only ever doing their very best. As shitty as situations can be, that's the best that can be done a lot of the time. 

[Blessed2]

1 hour ago, Mandy said:

What's your problem with Jane Austen? 

 

I feel like if I tried to induce a feeling of boredom, I'd then be having thoughts like "I'm still not feeling boredom". Which would feel like pessimism and irritation. It would just feel worse.

 

[Blessed2]

Hmm. Maybe the problem is that I'm expecting for meditation and journaling to "work" instantly. Like for example, I've experienced quite emotionally turbulent times lately, and then I try to meditate and express and make it go away instantly. And think that I'm doing something wrong, or that the methods are wrong, because the emotions or mental attitude doesn't shift in an instant.

 

But now I'm thinking if it's more about that momentum you guys keep talking about. That it's not a failure to journal a bit and not feel relief... But keep taking little baby steps day after day. Journal a bit, and then lay it down and do something else, even if it's distraction. And then take the journal again later. Not trying to make this huge shift in an instant. Just baby steps.

 

[noomii]

@Blessed2

Have you tried concentration, not on the breath but on a more simple object?

[Phil]

@Blessed2

Question why you’re trying to make it go away, and what it is (specifically) which you’re trying to make go away. Question why that is ‘held’ as the point or goal or working / ‘what works’. 

[James123]

On 6/2/2024 at 11:40 PM, Blessed2 said:

When I focus attention on breathing from the stomach, thoughts do not settle.

 

Like literally, put attention on the sensation of breathing right now. Thoughts do not settle.

 

It seems that thoughts are simultaneously arising as attention is on breathing.

 

How is that possible?

 

How could meditation then settle the activity of thought at all if it doesn't now?

 

How come I can't be mindful of just one breath, and all thought go silent forever?

 

 

Yes, yes these are thoughts.

 

Yet attention is on the sensation of breathing right now and thoughts are arising. Direct experience.

 

How long do you meditate for each sitting?

[Blessed2]

On 6/3/2024 at 2:29 PM, Phil said:

Another ‘approach’… set a timer on your phone to go off through out the day for say, 3 days, and reaffirm an affirmation like this about the the true nature of emotions. Then start meditation on the fourth day, with just five minutes. 

 

"I am the playful and ever-present Source, joyfully embracing every thought and emotion as part of my perfect, unfolding co-creative dream."

 

What does co-creative mean?

 

Communion with what/who?

 

[Blessed2]

On 6/23/2024 at 3:53 PM, James123 said:

How long do you meditate for each sitting?

 

About 20 minutes.

 

[James123]

34 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

About 20 minutes.

 

20 minutes is too short. At least 2 to 3 hours per day. 

[Blessed2]

16 minutes ago, James123 said:

20 minutes is too short. At least 2 to 3 hours per day. 

 

Why exactly isn't 20 minutes enough?

 

Why isn't 10 seconds enough?

 

[James123]

1 hour ago, Blessed2 said:

 

Why exactly isn't 20 minutes enough?

 

Why isn't 10 seconds enough?

 

If your mind is quite, you don't even need to meditate. But it seems that it is not quite. Therefore you are saying that meditation do not work. If this is the case, long sittings are the must.