Nondual nutshell

[Jonas Long]

The actual observer cannot observe itself.

This is most efficient distillation I can think of.  Does this effectively sum it up?

Edited April 5 by Jonas Long

[Orb]

42 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

The actual observer cannot observe itself.

This is most efficient distillation I can think of.  Does this effectively sum it up?

Ime, there is no observer. The sense of there being an observer is actually a subtle thought repeated in the background until inspected. 

 

Initially, there's matter and awareness.

 

Then there's awareness and what awareness appears as.

 

All the remains is Awareness. 

 

Awareness isn't actually aware, as it is appearing so efficiently that there's no "gap" where something can be aware of another thing. 

[Jonas Long]

8 minutes ago, Orb said:

Ime, there is no observer. The sense of there being an observer is actually a subtle thought repeated in the background until inspected. 

 

Initially, there's matter and awareness.

 

Then there's awareness and what awareness appears as.

 

All the remains is Awareness. 

 

Awareness isn't actually aware, as it is appearing so efficiently that there's no "gap" where something can be aware of another thing. 

Can all that be extrapolated from the original statement though?

If the observer can't observe itself, what is "it"?  Taken from the base assumption maybe that you are the person/body/mind that is observed, how can it be being observed if you are it?  

And if that's not what you are, what can you be?  Just an observation with no observer, a subject with no object etc. 

Edited April 5 by Jonas Long

[Serenity]

Yeah.

 

It doesn't make sense.

 

An observer sort of implies a subject object relationship.

 

It's more that there is a knower.

[Jonas Long]

So put another way, 

Anything that can be observed can't be the observer.

As an invitation to investigate where the "real observer" is, to eventually conclude there cant actually  be one.

[Serenity]

It's more of an observer looking at itself in the mirror while being the mirror too. 🤔

 

Strange-loopy.

[Jonas Long]

2 minutes ago, Serenity said:

It's more of an observer looking at itself in the mirror while being the mirror too. 🤔

 

Strange-loopy.

A hall of mirrors really.  Mirrors all the way down.  

[Faith]

Question:

"Is pure awareness the basis of non-duality? In pure observation everything just is, without judgement. Is that the principle behind non-duality, or is there more to it?"

 

Ryna:

"It is not Pure Observation.

Observation would suggest an observer, and if there is an observer then there is a observed. Hence Duality.

The awareness people experience is the awareness that is reflected in the mind as a concept. This is the state of being aware or the spacious observer that appears in the space of perception of the mind. This awareness is the observer, and it purely observes. However, this Awareness isn’t it, because when you go into deep sleep it is gone. This awareness is actually a very subtle identification and the last hurdle that one has to jump over.

What one is looking for is a background existence. This background existence is not perceivable, or conceptualizable, it is No-self or Absence. It is neither emptiness nor void, Awareness or Consciousness. It is it’s own, and only felt through being it, no words can define it, they can only act as pointers.

When the agency of an observer or awareness falls away there is left this background, some call it “What is”, or Pure Being or Existence. It is what encompasses all, when one ceases all identification with all concepts, one will realize this background. Once this is realized then all collapses, and one straddles the line between non-existence/existence, No-self/Self, non-duality/duality. All appears as emptiness, but also as forms. There is no Inherent self in any one thing. It is all one self or all is dependent co-arising with each other. It is a dance of form and formlessness expressing the nature of this Pure Existence, but this Pure existence has no conceptual form, so you cannot call it formlessness or form, non-duality or duality, it is beyond all these concepts. There is no knowing in this state, all identification ceases, and existence is spontaneous. It is purely just Conscious existence.

In Vedanta it is described as Sat-Chit-Ananda.

Sat is Existence. It has no agency, identity or form, it is purely existence.

Chit Is Consciousness. Consciousness is the Shine of existence, it is the knowing or awareness aspect of it. The only thing this aspect can know or be aware of is it’s own existence, but it’s existence is purely without any set form.

So what becomes known and perceived is expressed as Ananda, or Bliss. This bliss is the waves of existence, and these waves gets reflected in the mind as Life. So all phenomena like objects, trees, emotions, sky, the sun, are all Ananda or Bliss.

When understood and experienced as one whole then that is the true non-duality, however we cannot call it non-duality because it is beyond that concept, we can only use non-duality as a pointer to it."

 

Author- Ryna Som

[Jonas Long]

I was trying to think of the easiest way into the "discovery" via a simple and understandable, sort of undeniable statement.  The most effective meme.

[Serenity]

8 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

A hall of mirrors really.  Mirrors all the way down.  

 

Yeah, that's a great analogy. A hall of mirror while being each mirror.

 

[Blessed2]

Similarly as that you can't know what you are because you are being what you are.

[Robed Mystic]

18 hours ago, Jonas Long said:

The actual observer cannot observe itself.

This is most efficient distillation I can think of.  Does this effectively sum it up?

I would distill it even a step further, thus distilling the act of distillation altogether.

It cannot grasp itself - it just IS Itself.... it just Is... Further, now remove it, and just...what remains?  

That's enlightenment in a nutshell yes.  But when the realization happens the observer and the observed collapses and what remains is just ...Isness! 🙂

Language can't capture it but this is the closest one can get with language.

Edited April 6 by Robed Mystic

[James123]

On 4/6/2024 at 1:03 AM, Jonas Long said:

The actual observer cannot observe itself.

This is most efficient distillation I can think of.  Does this effectively sum it up?

Eyes do not see anything, you are the Moment. Rest is a thought/ illusion. 

[Joseph Maynor]

This might trigger some people, but if the Self is nondual, saying it's the witness might be a pointer not a truth.   Nonduality would go beyond the real vs./and unreal duality.  Every pointer is going to be expressed dualistically.