Dealing with Existential Pessimism

[Phil]

2 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said:

what aspects of the quotes or full article to you agree or disagree with? The bit about consciousness not being fundamental and any conscious experience bringing about it suffering. and that nirhoda samapatti is the most preferable state.

Thanks. I don’t agree or disagree with any of ‘it’ honestly. I’m appearing as ‘it’, so there isn’t actually an ‘it’. 

 

If the thoughts arise, ‘consciousness is fundamental’, and or, ‘consciousness is not fundamental’… consciousness is conscious of, and appearing as, these thoughts. 

 

Same for the thought, ‘conscious experience’. That’s an oxymoron. ‘Conscious experience’ is on behalf of a separate self, a “knower” of consciousness and experience. 

 

Same for ‘states of consciousness’. This is a belief, on behalf of the “knower”, separate of, and therein “knowing” of or about - consciousness, 

 

The separate self, or knower… is suffering, is what suffering is, and is illusory, and beliefs about feel accordingly ‘off’. 

[Phil]

15 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said:

again please without this stuff. The problem is that even if i get a glimpse of that you are saying it does not last long and I go back to despair.

Despair is an emotion. An emotion is felt now, or not now. Never in a past or future. The “one who goes back to despair” is a thought story about a separate self in time. Suffering. 

 

Alternatively, there is acknowleding despair is an emotion, and emotion is guidance for thoughts. For allowing thought to align with feeling if you will, as opposed to holding beliefs and expecting feeling to align with thoughts (beliefs). 

 

Such as expectation of unconditional can not ever be met, and yet there is guidance. So there is no actual problem.

Only an experience of ignorance & arrogance, denial, or, an apparent mental refusal to acknowledge emotions are experienced (presently, or not at all). 

 

Emotions can be called “this stuff”, and an emotion will be felt in regard to that thought as well. 

[Someone here]

11 minutes ago, Phil said:

Could you do me a solid and quote what you’re referring to… as far as having said ‘this person has a problem’?

 

Also ‘teaching’ would be ‘a second’.

 

Nonduality just means not two. Implications, anything happening, etc would be ‘a second’. 

 

States would be a second as well. Infinite isn’t / can’t be “in” anything at all. 

 

You are yourself. Body is a thought. Body would be ‘second’. 

 

A belief would be ‘second’, ‘woo woo’ too. Truth only seems woo woo to the materialist of the materialist’s paradigm, which there isn’t, yet ‘woo woo’ is a deflection & projection in defense of. 🤷‍♂️ ♥️

 Yes you didnt tell him/her that they have a problem but that's the person's  implication from this thread as It's clear from the title.

 He keeps telling you that your replies are not helpful yet you stubbornly insist on rehashing the nondual narrative.

Something I noticed about you is you don't like to be wrong. You will keep fighting tooth and nail until you convince people of your perspective. Which is bad  because it's from your limited perspective.

A newbie to this work can't appreciate how deep the rabbit hole goes..and isn't mature enough to handle the mind fuckery that could happen. Your are basically performing surgery on your own body to remove parasites in your body. Appreciate how difficult and transformative it can get.

   So watch your overly complicated nondual technical language that no one seems to understand but you.

(Said with love and respect 🙏.  Hope it's not offensive In any way ).

14 minutes ago, Alexander said:

Yeah man that's why I believe this whole Non duality is BS.

I am God dreaming this shit is far superior explanation.

Solipsism also is BS .

[spiritual dreams]

8 minutes ago, Phil said:

Thanks. I don’t agree or disagree with any of ‘it’ honestly. I’m appearing as ‘it’, so there isn’t actually an ‘it’. 

 

If the thoughts arise, ‘consciousness is fundamental’, and or, ‘consciousness is not fundamental’… consciousness is conscious of, and appearing as, these thoughts. 

 

Same for the thought, ‘conscious experience’. That’s an oxymoron. ‘Conscious experience’ is on behalf of a separate self, a “knower” of consciousness and experience. 

 

Same for ‘states of consciousness’. This is a belief, on behalf of the “knower”, separate of, and therein “knowing” of or about - consciousness, 

 

The separate self, or knower… is suffering, is what suffering is, and is illusory, and beliefs about feel accordingly ‘off’. 

ok this is probably the best im going to get. Thanks.

[Phil]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

Yes you didnt tell him/her that they have a problem but that's the person's  implication from this thread as It's clear from the title.

 He keeps telling you that your replies are not helpful yet you stubbornly insist on rehashing the nondual narrative.

Something I noticed about you is you don't like to be wrong. You will keep fighting tooth and nail until you convince people of your perspective. Which is bad  because it's from your limited perspective.

A newbie to this work can't appreciate how deep the rabbit hole goes..and isn't mature enough to handle the mind fuckery that could happen. Your are basically performing surgery on your own body to remove parasites in your body. Appreciate how difficult and transformative it can get.

   So watch your overly complicated nondual technical language that no one seems to understand but you.

(Said with love and respect 🙏.  Hope it's not offensive In any way ).

Teachings would be a second. 

Nonduality is simpler than simple. 

[spiritual dreams]

2 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 Yes you didnt tell him/her that they have a problem but that's the person's  implication from this thread as It's clear from the title.

 He keeps telling you that your replies are not helpful yet you stubbornly insist on rehashing the nondual narrative.

Something I noticed about you is you don't like to be wrong. You will keep fighting tooth and nail until you convince people of your perspective. Which is bad  because it's from your limited perspective.

A newbie to this work can't appreciate how deep the rabbit hole goes..and isn't mature enough to handle the mind fuckery that could happen. Your are basically performing surgery on your own body to remove parasites in your body. Appreciate how difficult and transformative it can get.

   So watch your overly complicated nondual technical language that no one seems to understand but you.

(Said with love and respect 🙏.  Hope it's not offensive In any way ).

honestly I kind of agree with this. A lot of the nondual stuff really wasn't helping me and made me feel way worse. Literally a simple answer that answered my questions would have made me feel better instead of constanly asking me confusing stuff that my mind is not ready for.

[Phil]

Meditation. 

♥️

[spiritual dreams]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

Teachings would be a second. 

Nonduality is simpler than simple. 

1 minute ago, Phil said:

Meditation. 

♥️

can we just interact like normal people for once. Not every moment is the time for nondual pointers. This communication style can be really unhelpful, especially when someone isn't in a good state.

[Someone here]

@spiritual dreams Phil comes from good intentions. He is a good guy that likes to help people.  But he is so advanced spiritually and doesn't (or can't) water down his teaching to suit newbies.  He is clear in his mind about what he is teaching but it falls on deaf ears because he doesn't recognise the gap between him and others in terms of spiritual knowledge. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Someone here

[Phil]

[Jonas Long]

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@spiritual dreams Phil comes from good intentions. He is a good guy that likes to help people.  But he is so advanced spiritually and doesn't (or can't) water down his teaching to suit newbies.  He is clear in his mind about what he is teaching but it falls on deaf ears because he doesn't recognise the gap between him and others in terms of spiritual knowledge. 

This is like saying someone is such an advanced juggler that they can't entertain children.  Using intuition to determine what needs to be heard in each different case would be doing an adequate job at communicating the "message".  This just sounds like a broken answering machine. 

[Phil]

10 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

This is like saying someone is such an advanced juggler that they can't entertain children. 

😂 😂 😂 

10 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Using intuition to determine what needs to be heard in each different case would be doing an adequate job at communicating the "message".  This just sounds like a broken answering machine. 

If nobody’s home do you still leave a message?

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

This is like saying someone is such an advanced juggler that they can't entertain children.  Using intuition to determine what needs to be heard in each different case would be doing an adequate job at communicating the "message".  This just sounds like a broken answering machine. 

 

Like it or not..that Is the Case .

First of all Phil is unbelievable when it comes to questioning assumptions and beliefs ..he makes you look like an utter fool for every word you say. But people get triggered by this for some reason.  Yet he seems unable to come off the nondual horse and speak like a fucking normal human being.

He seems to try to fit everything into a non-dual box.  I am trying to discover what he actually says ..But there are these parameters I MUST work with  because every teacher says the same thing.  Every teacher says that there is not two but one.  So I must accept this as true. (Paradox: spiritual autolysis)  This is the box.  This is the parameter.  Oneness.  But I don't see it.   There is no I.  Only we.  We are.  I am. Oneness. Understand?  No.

TL;DR: Just read one of Phil's posts on this thread..them  Tell me your understanding. 🤣

[Jonas Long]

29 minutes ago, Phil said:

😂 😂 😂 

If nobody’s home do you still leave a message?

If saying something in one way isn't getting through to someone, why not try saying it in a different way?  @Mandyis actually really good at doing that.  Watching your conversations is often like watching a lab rat press the orgasm button until they starve to death.  

[spiritual dreams]

@Jonas Long I'll be honest, I actually blocked you before. But I appreciate your words here.

 

50 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

This is like saying someone is such an advanced juggler that they can't entertain children.  Using intuition to determine what needs to be heard in each different case would be doing an adequate job at communicating the "message".  This just sounds like a broken answering machine. 

I 100% agree. This conversation drove me down a really dark spiral.

8 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

If saying something in one way isn't getting through to someone, why not try saying it in a different way?  @Mandyis actually really good at doing that.  Watching your conversations is often like watching a lab rat press the orgasm button until they starve to death.  

@Philyep. Especially whan I am specifically asking you not answer in  such a way because it makes me feel worse.

[Phil]

19 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

If saying something in one way isn't getting through to someone, why not try saying it in a different way?  @Mandyis actually really good at doing that.  Watching your conversations is often like watching a lab rat press the orgasm button until they starve to death.  

😂 🙏🏼 

[Phil]

21 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said:

Philyep. Especially whan I am specifically asking you not answer in  such a way because it makes me feel worse.

Can you quote it so I can see specifically what you’re referring to?

[spiritual dreams]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

Quote you quote it so i can see specifically what you’re referring to?

Quote

please no more of this nonduality stuff. There is a time and place and now is not the time. maybe in the future when the kundalini symptoms settle. (and yes i know theres know I, no time, no future not kundalini, etc. etc. ...)

 

[Phil]

22 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said:

Especially whan I am specifically asking you not answer in  such a way because it makes me feel worse.

Can you quote what I said, which is making you feel worse? 

[Mandy]

31 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

 Watching your conversations is often like watching a lab rat press the orgasm button until they starve to death.  

What needs to be fed?