I am eager to resolve my hate against gay people and the LGBT movement.

[Jonas Long]

5 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

The next line after the title is "How to get rid of this notion?".

 

I was a bit shocked too when I saw the title, but it is what it is. I think the intent behind this thread is genuine willingness to consider better ways.

 

 

They made the thread, asking for help. That's engaging. That's pretty big IMO. Huge. Respectable. Have you seen threads / posts like this before? Ever heard someone saying "I experience homophobia and want to get rid of such suffering" at a bar or something?

 

 

Fuck "cool people".

 

 

It's posted on the "Emptying" - section. This is what "emptying" means.

Whatever, ya know.  I disagree with pretty much all of this, but what are you gonna do.

 

I like cool people. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Jonas Long

[Jonas Long]

It's like, if you wanted to say and show a bunch of racist stuff but still be seen as a "good guy", you'd be Quentin Tarantino. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Jonas Long

[Blessed2]

2 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Whatever, ya know.  I disagree with pretty much all of this, but what are you gonna do.

 

I dunno. I think we're all in this together. Best to do our best to be of help and compassion. Imo.

 

Ever seen the Netflix series Mindhunter?

 

[Jonas Long]

Just now, Blessed2 said:

 

 

Ever seen the Netflix series Mindhunter?

 

No

[Blessed2]

Just now, Jonas Long said:

No

 

You'd maybe like it. It's based on a true story of FBI agents who were the first to actually study and interview violent criminals, like serial killers etc. It's dramatized of course, but imo seem pretty legit and intelligently put together. One of the best TV series I've ever seen honestly. Not just the plot, but the acting and directing. Top notch.

 

Very thought-provoking. See if you like it. Don't know if you're sensitive like that, but a trigger warning is pretty good here, cause it's not pretty. Misogyny, rape, murder etc.

[Jonas Long]

18 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

You'd maybe like it. It's based on a true story of FBI agents who were the first to actually study and interview violent criminals, like serial killers etc. It's dramatized of course, but imo seem pretty legit and intelligently put together. One of the best TV series I've ever seen honestly. Not just the plot, but the acting and directing. Top notch.

 

Very thought-provoking. See if you like it. Don't know if you're sensitive like that, but a trigger warning is pretty good here, cause it's not pretty. Misogyny, rape, murder etc.

Have you seen Django unchained?

[Reena]

Homophobic people will exist everywhere. You have to put in the emotional labor to not be impacted by them. 

[Blessed2]

7 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Have you seen Django unchained?

 

Yes!

[Jonas Long]

Just now, Blessed2 said:

 

Yes!

It strikes me as the exact movie you would make if you really wanted to say and show tons of terrible racism for the length of a whole movie(an overly long ass one at that) and "get away with it" by at the very end killing one bad white guy. 

[Reena]

Just now, Jonas Long said:

It strikes me as the exact movie you would make if you really wanted to say and show tons of terrible racism for the length of a whole movie(an overly long ass one at that) and "get away with it" by at the very end killing one bad white guy. 

What's the point you're trying to make? 

[Jonas Long]

2 minutes ago, Reena said:

What's the point you're trying to make? 

Kinda sounds to me like if the op wanted to get away with saying "I hate gay people and LGBT movement" on this forum, they would couch it with the plausible deniability of "but I want to get better", say it, and then not really engage in the discussion which follows. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Jonas Long

[Reena]

3 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Kinda sounds to me like if the op wanted to get away with saying "I hate gay people and LGBT movement" on this forum, they would couch it with the plausible deniability of "but I want to get better", say it, and then not really engage in the discussion which follows. 

What can be the end goal of such a thing? 

[Reena]

3 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Kinda sounds to me like if the op wanted to get away with saying "I hate gay people and LGBT movement" on this forum, they would couch it with the plausible deniability of "but I want to get better", say it, and then not really engage in the discussion which follows. 

If a person is genuinely homophobic, wouldn't they be better off directly saying it to a person's face rather than trying to empty their feelings? 

[Reena]

17 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

It strikes me as the exact movie you would make if you really wanted to say and show tons of terrible racism for the length of a whole movie(an overly long ass one at that) and "get away with it" by at the very end killing one bad white guy. 

But wouldn't that be justified for the sake of art? I mean how else will the historic depiction of racism look like? How would you want generations of the future to know the racism of the past or social evils that existed on the level of apartheid? 

Wouldn't you have to show people the Elephant man in order for people to know the Elephant man, however if the Elephant man is a source of trauma for some, how would the showcaser or artist take responsibility for such trauma? 

What I meant is - 

In order to know uncomfortable things, you have to see uncomfortable things. But therein lies the paradox that in order to see uncomfortable things you also have to make a pact with your own trauma and compromise it to a certain degree to be able to see uncomfortable things. If the doctor doesn't see his patient, how will he cure him, even though seeing the patient can be traumatizing to the doctor. It's a form of altruism that comes at the cost of personal safety yet with a higher interest  in mind. You might have to save someone stuck in a cave. Yet it comes at the risk of getting your own self stuck in there while rescuing, yet such a risk has to be taken in order for a possibility of rescue to even objectively materialize. 

 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Reena

[Jonas Long]

14 minutes ago, Reena said:

But wouldn't that be justified for the sake of art? I mean how else will the historic depiction of racism look like? How would you want generations of the future to know the racism of the past or social evils that existed on the level of apartheid? 

Wouldn't you have to show people the Elephant man in order for people to know the Elephant man, however if the Elephant man is a source of trauma for some, how would the showcaser or artist take responsibility for such trauma? 

What I meant is - 

In order to know uncomfortable things, you have to see uncomfortable things. But therein lies the paradox that in order to see uncomfortable things you also have to make a pact with your own trauma and compromise it to a certain degree to be able to see uncomfortable things. If the doctor doesn't see his patient, how will he cure him, even though seeing the patient can be traumatizing to the doctor. It's a form of altruism that comes at the cost of personal safety yet with a higher interest  in mind. You might have to save someone stuck in a cave. Yet it comes at the risk of getting your own self stuck in there while rescuing, yet such a risk has to be taken in order for a possibility of rescue to even objectively materialize. 

 

There are responsible ways to depict historical racism, of course.  But a rich white filmmaker making hipster block busters ain't it imo

[Reena]

12 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

There are responsible ways to depict historical racism, of course.  But a rich white filmmaker making hipster block busters ain't it imo

If we don't deal with what we hate, we can't objectively learn to love.

 

Its another to casually make a racist remark right off the bat with the obvious intent to cause injury. 

 

I have been racist too in the past. But I overcame my racism by asking questions, by resolving my hate, by confronting my shadow, in fact if anything has to be a solid testament of the law of attraction, the more my subconscious was ready to find new doors to open and bring the awakening and integration of my shadow, the better it was in terms of the oncoming stream of challenges and opportunities I was offered by the universe in resolving my hate, my own subconscious being the driver in this regard, these opportunities were like the sun and I immediately made hay in the sunshine and reaped the benefits alloted to my subconscious. I was flooded with remorse of astronomical proportions and what followed was a spontaneous transformation in the understanding of reality, what I gathered from this experience is that being open about one's emotions and being absolutely genuine opens doorways to the truth in the subconscious and moves the mountains to bring  the truth straight to you. 

 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Reena

[Reena]

@Jonas Long like I was a part of a white supremacist group in the past and some of their racism rubbed on me too and I ingrained some of what they believed. Back then I was a trump supporter. But now I'm anti Trump. I mean all of this needed a lot of growing up on my side. And obviously this wouldn't have been possible without a modicum of self honesty. 

[Jonas Long]

12 minutes ago, Reena said:

@Jonas Long like I was a part of a white supremacist group in the past and some of their racism rubbed on me too and I ingrained some of what they believed. Back then I was a trump supporter. But now I'm anti Trump. I mean all of this needed a lot of growing up on my side. And obviously this wouldn't have been possible without a modicum of self honesty. 

I'm all for @Alexander examining his beliefs on this, but he's seemed to have dropped out of this conversation.

Also, I just don't think it "looks good" to have that as a title for a thread.  Maybe it was written in good faith so to speak, maybe not, but if I were visiting this forum for the first time and saw that, it'd likely be the last time too.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Jonas Long

[Reena]

18 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

but if I were visiting this forum for the first time and saw that, it'd likely be the last time too.

The tolerance level is debatable. Homophobic slurs are commonly strewn everywhere on the internet. There's no safe space. Such a concept is too conceptual. In reality you cannot expect every nook and cranny of your environment to be spring cleaned of all the human bullshit. You can decrease crime. You can't eliminate it.

[Joseph Maynor]

I wish everyone to get over self-shame.  I do know what it feels like to be behind enemy lines or to even experience that in family.  I have some right-wing Trump people in my family and they talk smack about San Francisco where I live or “woke people”  in front of my face.  It’s disheartening  to  feel that in your own family.  It used to really tick me off.  Now I just look at it like — that’s on you man,  it does nothing to me.  My happiness comes from within.  And I try to stay away from people who are going to reduce my happiness.  That’s my choice.  I think it’s a mistake to expect everyone to be a certain way though.  You can’t control that.  What you can do is select how long you interface with someone or refuse to interface with them at all.  There’s nothing that says you have to even listen to or even read someone else’s crap.  A lot of it is just media-driven stereotyping and chest-beating anyway.  It’s hurt people hurting people.  

Edited November 24, 2023 by Joseph Maynor