Do we have free will ?

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, Eothasian said:

Randomness is not opposed to determinism.

Randomness is a form of determinism.

 

You need to look at the definitions you are holding.

How is randomness deterministic? 

If you throw the dice 🎲..is the possibility of turning 6 a random possibility or a deterministic one ?

[Mandy]

@Someone here So you'd prefer to be 100% responsible for everything then?

 

If you've seen Aladdin, or are familiar with the story, why is Genie himself in chains, bound to a master then? 

 

What is fundamentally wrong with the way I asked the original question, would you choose free will or no free will? 

[Phil]

@Someone here

Can there be a chair in an empty room?

 

[Someone here]

@Mandy yes I would like to be responsible for as much as possible in my life . Free will doesn't mean we are responsible for the entire universe . No libertarian philosopher says that we have 100% free will or control over our destiny. 

The thing is..

If free will does not exist, nothing matters. If free will does exist, everything matters.

If free will does not exist, humans are just dust blowing in the wind, and everything that seems as if it is the result of volitional conduct is an illusion. Just as a rock does not decide to roll down a hill, crush some things along the way and crash into something before coming to rest, humans lacking free will are simply casting about based on invisible forces that control their every action, including what seem to be conscious thoughts. In a world without free will, there is no good or bad, right or wrong, or true or false. There just Is, and nothing humans do has any meaning of any sort.

If free will does exist, humans are set apart from the rest of nature, and have some degree of control over their destinies. With free will comes great responsibility to discern and do the “right” thing. Morality is born out of free will, as is immorality.

Now for the twist, so long as humans strive to act “as if” they have free will, it does not matter if free will does or does not exist. If free will does exist, and humans strive to act in accord with free will, the reality and the perception will be in harmony. If free will does not exist, but the universe nonetheless causes humans to act as if free will exists, the discord between reality and perception is immaterial and nothing humans do has any meaning in any event. On the other hand, if free will does exist, and humans do not act as if free will exists, humans will waste the miraculous gift of freedom of thought, if not freedom of activity.

 

[Mandy]

@Someone here What if humans already aren't what we think they are? 

 

What does "will" really mean? 

 

If I'm really hungry and I want a meal, did I choose to want to eat? 

[Someone here]

23 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Someone here

Can there be a chair in an empty room?

 

Here, we try to look at what is space. Does space exists as a separate entity from matter and energy, or in other words, is space independent of its contents?

I don't know honestly. I'm guessing it's a trick question. And I'm waiting for you to explain what your overall point is (remember I asked you to be straightforward and not dance around the subject /beat around the Bush ). But you seem to enjoy those zen games 😉. 

[Phil]

@Someone here

It’s meant straightforwardly, as a yes or no. Try to answer without so much thinking.

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, Mandy said:

@Someone here What if humans already aren't what we think they are? 

 

What does "will" really mean? 

 

If I'm really hungry and I want a meal, did I choose to want to eat? 

What do you mean by the first question?

 

Hunger is yet another evidence for lack of free will . You don't choose to be hungry. The feeling of hunger just attacks you out of the blue . Same with all kinds of needs, desires, and cravings. 

 

lets take a look at what exactly Free Will is and isn't. The commonly held definition of Free Will is "the ability to freely choose between different possible courses of action." This definition seems to be appropriate and in line with our everyday experience at first glance. If we can choose between different courses of action (and it feels like we can) than we have free will, if we can't choose between different courses of action then we don't. Seems straightforward right? Either we have free will or we don't. Our everyday experience supports it (Libertarians, Compatiblilists), and the physical laws of the universe refutes it (Determinism). This is where 99% of the people get tripped up and stop. Because it depends on the definitions.  

How do you personally define free will ?

[Mandy]

@Someone here Seems like you're trying to be a philosopher or fill that role somehow. You aren't actually curious about anything. 

[Someone here]

47 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Someone here

Can there be a chair in an empty room?

 

Yes if the room is empty of everything except the chair .

However if you mean the room is completely empty ..then it doesn't contain a chair inside it .

As I said it's a tricky question that I don't know how to answer .something about how it's framed linguistically is confusing 😆. 

[Someone here]

@Mandy OK.

[Alexander]

52 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Someone here

Can there be a chair in an empty room?

 

I will answer.

Yes.

None of you mods provided answer to OP question.

[Mandy]

21 minutes ago, Someone here said:

What do you mean by the first question?

It's an assumption that we are humans. Then many assumptions based off of this one, but what if the first assumption is wrong? 

46 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Mandy yes I would like to be responsible for as much as possible in my life . Free will doesn't mean we are responsible for the entire universe . No libertarian philosopher says that we have 100% free will or control over our destiny. 

The thing is..

If free will does not exist, nothing matters. If free will does exist, everything matters.

If free will does not exist, humans are just dust blowing in the wind, and everything that seems as if it is the result of volitional conduct is an illusion. Just as a rock does not decide to roll down a hill, crush some things along the way and crash into something before coming to rest, humans lacking free will are simply casting about based on invisible forces that control their every action, including what seem to be conscious thoughts. In a world without free will, there is no good or bad, right or wrong, or true or false. There just Is, and nothing humans do has any meaning of any sort.

If free will does exist, humans are set apart from the rest of nature, and have some degree of control over their destinies. With free will comes great responsibility to discern and do the “right” thing. Morality is born out of free will, as is immorality.

Now for the twist, so long as humans strive to act “as if” they have free will, it does not matter if free will does or does not exist. If free will does exist, and humans strive to act in accord with free will, the reality and the perception will be in harmony. If free will does not exist, but the universe nonetheless causes humans to act as if free will exists, the discord between reality and perception is immaterial and nothing humans do has any meaning in any event. On the other hand, if free will does exist, and humans do not act as if free will exists, humans will waste the miraculous gift of freedom of thought, if not freedom of activity.

Note: Genie isn't human. Nor is Aladdin. 

21 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Hunger is yet another evidence for lack of free will . You don't choose to be hungry. The feeling of hunger just attacks you out of the blue . Same with all kinds of needs, desires, and cravings. 

But you chose free will in the genie question. So you would rather not have the ability to feel hunger? Or you would rather have that guidance? 

21 minutes ago, Someone here said:

lets take a look at what exactly Free Will is and isn't. The commonly held definition of Free Will is "the ability to freely choose between different possible courses of action." This definition seems to be appropriate and in line with our everyday experience at first glance. If we can choose between different courses of action (and it feels like we can) than we have free will, if we can't choose between different courses of action then we don't. Seems straightforward right? Either we have free will or we don't. Our everyday experience supports it (Libertarians, Compatiblilists), and the physical laws of the universe refutes it (Determinism). This is where 99% of the people get tripped up and stop. Because it depends on the definitions.  

How do you personally define free will ?

I asked about will, not free will. Will is desire. Will is appreciation. Do I choose to love the color purple? I choose to buy a purple jacket you could say, but do I choose to love the color? 

[Mandy]

12 hours ago, nurthur11 said:

What if i would choose free will but it doesn't come. Were did i go wrong then? 
 

I took the liberty of answering this question myself.

😂 The I is where I went... _____ wrong? 

[Phil]

21 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Yes if the room is empty of everything except the chair .

However if you mean the room is completely empty ..then it doesn't contain a chair inside it .

As I said it's a tricky question that I don't know how to answer .something about how it's framed linguistically is confusing 😆. 

Try to let it be more simple. Either the room is empty, or there’s a chair in the room… yes?

[Orb]

@Someone here you're doing it again. 

 

i think all this thinking is agitating for you, and you think an answer to all these words will give you some kinda high that'll distract you from the agitation felt by holding onto all this circular type thinking. 

 

It's overthinking basically, relax, don't listen to any other overthinkers for a while. 

 

@Alexander that's because there isn't an answer to that question. If anyone answers "yes" or "no" that persons deluding himself and all others he shares those answers with. 

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, Mandy said:

It's an assumption that we are humans. Then many assumptions based off of this one, but what if the first assumption is wrong? 

Yes our true identity is awareness.  I understand that .but we are not some impersonal fluffy awareness floating around ..we are tied in to a human physical body.  So when you say "it's a assumption that we are humans " then you are denying the entirety of your experience. Which tells you that you are awareness of a human avatar.

7 minutes ago, Mandy said:

But you chose free will in the genie question. So you would rather not have the ability to feel hunger? Or you would rather have that guidance ?

Hunger sucks ,right ? We all don't like the feeling of hunger.  And part of the reason it sucks is because its out of our control. If I have complete free will then I should not feel "hunger attacks " 3 times every single fucking day .

9 minutes ago, Mandy said:

I asked about will, not free will. Will is desire. Will is appreciation. Do I choose to love the color purple? I choose to buy a purple jacket you could say, but do I choose to love the color? 

No you don't choose your preferences od cravings . For example I like the sport team real madrid...I have no choice in the matter..I'm involuntarily attracted to it . Same thing with all kinds of preferences. Whether It be colors ,movies, genres of music etc 

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, Phil said:

Try to let it be more simple. Either the room is empty, or there’s a chair in the room… yes?

OK. My answer is yes .

What's your point? 

[Someone here]

14 minutes ago, Orb said:

you're doing it again. 

 

i think all this thinking is agitating for you, and you think an answer to all these words will give you some kinda high that'll distract you from the agitation felt by holding onto all this circular type thinking. 

 

It's overthinking basically, relax, don't listen to any other overthinkers for a while. 

Its not overthinking. This stuff doesn't bother me at all .in fact I enjoy philosophising more than anything else in life. I like to ask deep existential questions and get them answered because I believe the human mind is capable of understanding itself and reality fully .its not an easy task though but damn it's so rewarding..

[Mandy]

14 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Yes our true identity is awareness.  I understand that .but we are not some impersonal fluffy awareness floating around ..we are tied in to a human physical body.  So when you say "it's a assumption that we are humans " then you are denying the entirety of your experience. Which tells you that you are awareness of a human avatar.

Well, that's all kind of belief though right? When I look at the sky, I am the sky. I'm not human. When I look at a bird, I am the bird. The perspective makes it even more bad ass. The most beautiful animal in the forest can't see itself. 

14 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Hunger sucks ,right ? We all don't like the feeling of hunger.  And part of the reason it sucks is because its out of our control. If I have complete free will then I should not feel "hunger attacks " 3 times every single fucking day .

No, hunger is awesome. Pain is awesome. You would not want to be without it, or if you say you do, watch the youtube video I just linked and tell me otherwise. Doesn't food taste the best after you've been hungry for a while? Would you want to cover over your fuel gauge in your car because it's annoying when it gets close to empty or would you rather know when it's time to gas up? Is not guidance, hunger, pain, all of it wanted? Preferable?

 

14 minutes ago, Someone here said:

No you don't choose your preferences od cravings . For example I like the sport team real madrid...I have no choice in the matter..I'm involuntarily attracted to it . Same thing with all kinds of preferences. Whether It be colors ,movies, genres of music etc 

Isn't that just... magical? Awesome? What am I missing here? 

 

I want the best of both worlds. And that's just what I got.