My thoughts of Leo and actualize.org. What do you think?

[Faith]

@Lester Retsel Is restricted for 24 hours. Hopefully that will be long enough for him to come to his senses .

 

Carry on everyone....

[Orb]

3 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said:

Have you ever known anyone who has taken their own life?

Have you?

@Lester Retsel I'm not going on with this, the thought loop will come to rest inevitably. 

 

You're interested only in continuing this train of unnecessary thinking and only poisoning yourself.

[Orb]

23 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

And then telling people that it's their ego seems like blaming the victim to the person that advice goes to. 

@Joseph Maynor hope this wasn't the interpretation of what I mentioned earlier.

 

The thing is meditation really is that miraculous, all the stories no matter how big they seem come to rest in meditation.

 

My posts were just helping a friend remember he is okay. 

 

If this wasn't a interpretation based on what I said that's fine also, I think expressing this is good either way.

[God]

Why's everyone hating on @Lester Retsel

Was I right in ignoring him and Joseph all along?

[Orb]

37 minutes ago, God said:

Why's everyone hating on @Lester Retsel

@God woah blowing this way out of proportion 😅. 

 

We were really attempting to help him remember he is clarity and to see that he is no longer expressing but poisoning himself with circular judgement. 

 

I'm sure he's a good guy, just fell into thought loops about Leo that hurt, and then projected that hurt onto us. 

 

Hope he feels better.

 

37 minutes ago, God said:

Was I right in ignoring him and Joseph all along?

I wouldn't say right or wrong, you can ignore whoever you'd like though 🙂.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Orb

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Lester Retsel said:

No, let's save that for people who deserve it.  For chrissake.  He has hundreds of acolytes already.  Really.  There are.  So many.  Infinitely more in need. And deserving.  Seriously. 

 

2 hours ago, Phil said:

@Lester Retsel

How can an appearance deserve what’s appearing? 

This seems nonsensical. 

This comment was in reply to your comment above it here. 

 

 

It looks as if it was in reply to this….

2 hours ago, Lester Retsel said:

The man has at least 3 suicides to take at least partial credit for.  You fucking dildos.  Kick me off here, I truly could give half a fuck. But get real. Omfg. 

 

2 hours ago, Phil said:

@Lester Retsel

How can an appearance deserve what’s appearing? 

This seems nonsensical. 

 

 

[Blessed2]

@Lester Retsel I had trouble with suicidal thoughts when I got confused with Actualized content.

 

A bad trip started it. Deluded, psychotic thought patterns telling me I had to literally commit suicide in order to prove I was worthy, fearless, egoless, pure. Had to spend time in psych ward and take antipsychotics. It was the most brutal and horrifying time in my life.

 

What really started the healing process was forgiveness and compassion. In other words, letting go thoughts/beliefs like "I am not enough" or "I am guilty" etc. There is no need to prove my worth.

 

Once the healing started to really kick off, started recognizing why Actualized played a role and what was wrong there so to say. Not playing psychological analysis here, but I'm quite sure Leo is suffering from the same beliefs I did. Which is why I resonated with Actualized to begin with.

 

The thing with compassion and forgiveness is that if you cannot forgive others, it means you cannot forgive yourself. If you judge others, you judge yourself. You literally hurt yourself, and then hurt others.

[Tarak]

6 hours ago, Lester Retsel said:

No, let's save that for people who deserve it.  For chrissake.  He has hundreds of acolytes already.  Really.  There are.  So many.  Infinitely more in need. And deserving.  Seriously. 

I don't need to like somebody to send him love. He is not my guru, never was, and I realize he is lost right now. Sending love is the best I can personally do to help him find his way again. Everyone can get lost and deserves a second chance (or third, or fourth, ...). But sure, I'll send his community some love too, don't want them to be jealous 😁

Edited April 22, 2022 by Tarak

[Tarak]

1 hour ago, DMT Elf said:

 

Well, actually.

I'm not trying to stir the pot here, although I may accomplish just that. If you understand what love is, you understand that love is exactly what somebody like Charles Manson would've needed more of.

Yea. The world wouldn't be in such a dire state if we'd learn to forgive and love from a young age. I try to pass those values to my kid, but it's friggin' hard when he learns indirectly from his classmates (and even his teachers) that to succeed you need to be egotistical. It took me 25-30 years to "remember" this after I lost the notion of love somewhere in my early teens.

[Forza21]

5 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

@Lester Retsel I had trouble with suicidal thoughts when I got confused with Actualized content.

 

A bad trip started it. Deluded, psychotic thought patterns telling me I had to literally commit suicide in order to prove I was worthy, fearless, egoless, pure. Had to spend time in psych ward and take antipsychotics. It was the most brutal and horrifying time in my life.

 

What really started the healing process was forgiveness and compassion. In other words, letting go thoughts/beliefs like "I am not enough" or "I am guilty" etc. There is no need to prove my worth.

 

Once the healing started to really kick off, started recognizing why Actualized played a role and what was wrong there so to say. Not playing psychological analysis here, but I'm quite sure Leo is suffering from the same beliefs I did. Which is why I resonated with Actualized to begin with.

 

The thing with compassion and forgiveness is that if you cannot forgive others, it means you cannot forgive yourself. If you judge others, you judge yourself. You literally hurt yourself, and then hurt others.

Its hard process. I have suicidal thoughts from time to time, and it's been 2 months now.  I feel you brother, I'm so glad you did it. ❤️🙏

Forgiveness is one thing.

But shouldn't we warn other people who may fall into Leos „teachings”? 
 

No more people should suffer because of this. And silence isn't an answer? I don't know. But based on what i see and experience, it's really really dangerous place.

And we are not the only one seriously. I talked to a guy( don't want to spoil name) who helps people get throught experience like ours. And now  he has many, many, many people from Leo's forum.  Really something is very off, and i'm not sure what to do, to save people from that.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Forza21

[Reena]

 

Stop demonizing Leo

 

It's not Leo's fault that those suicides happened. 

 

This is unfair that all this negativity gets thrown at Leo. 

He didn't cause any of it. 

 

Leo would have encouraged people to not kill themselves if they had expressed their intent to him. 

 

Whats up with all the unfair  Leo bashing? 

 

Unfair. Unfair. Unfair. 

 

Leo is a kind human being. 

 

 

 

[Forza21]

9 minutes ago, Cupcake said:

 

Stop demonizing Leo

 

It's not Leo's fault that those suicides happened. 

 

This is unfair that all this negativity gets thrown at Leo. 

He didn't cause any of it. 

 

Leo would have encouraged people to not kill themselves if they had expressed their intent to him. 

 

Whats up with all the unfair  Leo bashing? 

 

Unfair. Unfair. Unfair. 

 

Leo is a kind human being. 

 

 

 

Sure, but doesn't it go both ways? If someone considers himself as "most awaken human in history" and that way he attracts people to listen his "teachings" and in many cases, it goes terribly wrong, should we not talk about it?

It's like free pass for ANY dangerous teachings to grow. It's not about blaming him for all the evil in the world. It's about being honest and showing what my be wrong/off.  If we agree that nothing is wrong about his teachings, more people may get hurt. People AT LEAST should KNOW about those CASES, before going to Leo's forum. And they won't know, if we don't tell about it loud, right?
 

[Orb]

@Cupcake leo is definitely responsible for the suicides, im not mad or anything but its important to make this clear.

 

when you have a group of people who are suffering and you spread the teaching that reality is gods nightmare (he's actually said this!) and that the only escape is reaching high consciousness (by dying basically) and people kill themselves, you definitely have some responsibility in that situation.

 

The people who killed themselves on the forum believed what leo was saying and killed themselves. The disclaimers leo makes are unfair as well, like these people are suffering and you tell them that their lives are meaningless and low consciousness then you say the only thing that matters is reaching infinite love...but if you're not ready you have to do all the stupid meaningless stuff. 

 

You see the misleading behavior? 

 

Leo has a lot of discordant beliefs and then he convinces others to adopt his own painful beliefs, I mean he's been high on dmt and actually wanted to kill himself, then he had the audacity to go on camera and pretend he isn't suicidal or doesn't have any issues.

 

Nothing personal against leo and I do not encourage bashing on him, but to say he has no responsibility in this is simply not true.

[Faith]

30 minutes ago, Cupcake said:

Whats up with all the unfair  Leo bashing? 

 

Maybe its karma? 🤷‍♀️

Just saying..  I recall a long bashing thread on Leo's forum and he was the thread creator. 

 

[Blessed2]

2 hours ago, Forza21 said:

Its hard process. I have suicidal thoughts from time to time, and it's been 2 months now.  I feel you brother, I'm so glad you did it. ❤️🙏

Forgiveness is one thing.

But shouldn't we warn other people who may fall into Leos „teachings”? 
 

No more people should suffer because of this. And silence isn't an answer? I don't know. But based on what i see and experience, it's really really dangerous place.

And we are not the only one seriously. I talked to a guy( don't want to spoil name) who helps people get throught experience like ours. And now  he has many, many, many people from Leo's forum.  Really something is very off, and i'm not sure what to do, to save people from that.

 

🙏🙏❤️

 

I'm not sure. But I think it's best to begin the healing from oneself. I mean 'cut cords' with Actualized, not feed attention to it anymore, and align with wellbeing.

 

"Where focus goes, energy flows." Wellbeing and goodness eventually pours over for others.

[Blessed2]

@Orb 👍

 

There is a ton of arguments and philosophy as to why he is not responsible, how there is disclaimers etc, but you just smell the unhonesty. 

[Reena]

46 minutes ago, Orb said:

@Cupcake leo is definitely responsible for the suicides, im not mad or anything but its important to make this clear.

 

when you have a group of people who are suffering and you spread the teaching that reality is gods nightmare (he's actually said this!) and that the only escape is reaching high consciousness (by dying basically) and people kill themselves, you definitely have some responsibility in that situation.

 

The people who killed themselves on the forum believed what leo was saying and killed themselves. The disclaimers leo makes are unfair as well, like these people are suffering and you tell them that their lives are meaningless and low consciousness then you say the only thing that matters is reaching infinite love...but if you're not ready you have to do all the stupid meaningless stuff. 

 

You see the misleading behavior? 

 

Leo has a lot of discordant beliefs and then he convinces others to adopt his own painful beliefs, I mean he's been high on dmt and actually wanted to kill himself, then he had the audacity to go on camera and pretend he isn't suicidal or doesn't have any issues.

 

Nothing personal against leo and I do not encourage bashing on him, but to say he has no responsibility in this is simply not true.

OK let's try to be very clear here. 

Tell me who committed suicide, how many of them, tell each case and tell me how Leo influenced or lead to them to do it. 

 

Let's get this clear once and for all. Why be vague about this beat around the bush? 

 

 

If Someone wants to make any accusations, then provide clear evidence or at possibilities and then state each case clearly. 

 

Otherwise it's like throwing darts in the dark 

[Orb]

@Cupcake Soonhei, Waveintheocean.

 

there was a third but i cant remember his name.

 

these 2 people killed themselves due to believing leos beliefs, theres been threads about this on the act forum.

 

Not to mention the numerous people who dealt with psychosis on that forum due to taking psychedelics, leo simultaneously says that psychedelics are the only reliable way to reach these high states of consciousness and then gives disclaimers to people with mental illness. Like wagging the carrot in front of you then say nuh uh you can't have it sorry, go do all the stupid survival stuff.

 

8 minutes ago, Cupcake said:

OK let's try to be very clear here. 

Tell me who committed suicide, how many of them, tell each case and tell me how Leo influenced or lead to them to do it. 

 

Let's get this clear once and for all. Why be vague about this beat around the bush?

I'm not purposefully being vague if that's what is implied, those suicides were such big moments that I'm surprised there's some people who didn't notice, like there were threads about this as I stated earlier.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Orb

[Orb]

@Cupcake  the fundamental teaching leo gives is that all of reality is a nightmare god is having because god is afraid of dreaming a "higher" dream, he said this on his charlie and Ben podcast.

 

So pair this discordant belief with suicidal tendencies and you have a problem.

 

Then he convinces people that the only way out is to reach the highest state of consciousness possible, this is foolish as states of consciousness will always be temporary so he has a whole group of people chasing states thinking they will finally escape. 

 

Look at the behavior, not the content of his beliefs. If we look at the behavior we see someone who is repeating discordant beliefs, then relying on pleasurable experiences to get relief from those beliefs, then he comes back and conceptualizes those pleasurable experiences and so on goes the cycle. 

 

He covers this behavior up with big sounding words, that's his greatest skill actually, no offense at all.

[Zeroguy]

24 minutes ago, Cupcake said:

OK let's try to be very clear here. 

Tell me who committed suicide, how many of them, tell each case and tell me how Leo influenced or lead to them to do it. 

 

Let's get this clear once and for all. Why be vague about this beat around the bush? 

 

 

If Someone wants to make any accusations, then provide clear evidence or at possibilities and then state each case clearly. 

 

Otherwise it's like throwing darts in the dark 

 

Soonhei who was my online friend(instagram) due to "conscious death" leo advocated on his videos and forum.

Hope you stay there and not polute this forum  with your nonsense.

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Zeroguy