crisis

[Phil]

4 hours ago, judy said:

it's like i have to at least try and understand. it's like my life depends on it, so every day i need to figure out if things are okay or not.

and if they're not, i wouldn't know what to do about it anyway. other than making myself suffer for it.

 

i was told that feeling guilty is a quality of good people, cause if you were bad, you wouldn't even bother to feel guilty.

so if i stop repenting and regretting all the bad things that have happened and that are my fault, i will officially become a bad person, even worse than i am now:)

 

i know those are stories and it's almost a bit hilarious when i type them out. of course they are complete exaggerations. nevertheless, they can feel so, so real and true to me at times.

If you can make yourself suffer… what term do you use for how these interpretations feel? 

 

How do you feel guilty, as compared to everyone else who experiences the emotion guilt? 

 

How do you determine good and bad people without opinions and judgment?

 

What are you hoping understanding leads to?

 

4 hours ago, judy said:

on his part? apparently no, but also, yes.

apparently, he's got a type. he said i should be more confident, but turns out the new girl's probably just as insecure as am i. maybe that's what he wants.

If you know people are or aren’t insecure, how does the emotion insecurity fit in?

 

4 hours ago, judy said:

i do not fully understand the situation. it would be helpful if i could develop a clearer understanding of everything that's happened

How is clarity developed?

 

4 hours ago, judy said:

i don't get it:)

Get what?

Is a mind actually found, are is there an experience of thoughts (about a mind)?

Check & see. Either it is or isn’t. 

 

4 hours ago, judy said:

why do thoughts feel discord/aligned?

Because of what thoughts are made of. 

 

4 hours ago, judy said:

sometimes in bed before falling asleep when i watch my mind, i notice (negative, painful) thoughts coming up but i cannot bend them. i cannot just think whatever i want, my thoughts seem to gravitate toward depicting what is true of a situation (and i don't even mean my own interpretation here).

Watch your mind, or are aware of thoughts?

 

Are thoughts negative, or is negative a thought?

 

Are thoughts painful, as in you could point to where the pain is specifically, or are you experiencing suffering which can’t be pointed to?

 

Do you care more about how you feel or being right?

 

4 hours ago, judy said:

i like to think that if we were both good, neither of us would have gotten hurt.

if i was good, everything would be different for me and i'd be more beautiful:) i am not good.               

                                                                                                                                                            (again, i know this is silly, but this is literally how it goes in my mind).

Define good.

Define bad. 

 

Do you care more about how you feel, or saying whatever thought pops up?

 

4 hours ago, judy said:

if someone could tell me what other interpretation there is, i'd really, really appreciate it.

People tend to suffer until the distinction between pain & suffering is acknowledged, as well as emotions. Often there’s a phase of projecting emotions. Like blaming someone for how they feel before acknowledging blame is felt. 

[judy]

@Mandy that's funny:)

[judy]

58 minutes ago, Phil said:

If that’s what you feel like and how the situation feels, what is interpretation?

i still don't get it😩

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Are any emotions felt alongside all of these interpretations? 

sadness, hurt, worthlessness?

[Phil]

Just now, judy said:

i still don't get it😩

You’re expressing & feeling interpretations.

 

4 minutes ago, judy said:

sadness, hurt, worthlessness?

These describe how the interpretations feel (not how you feel). 

[judy]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

If you can make yourself suffer… what term do you use for how these interpretations feel?

it's a bit strict and cruel of me to make myself suffer?

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

What are you hoping understanding leads to?

closure?

knowing how to move on from here to make things right.

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

If you know people are or aren’t insecure, how does the emotion insecurity fit in?

i don't know

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Because of what thoughts are made of.

what are thoughts made of?:)

i seem to have felt that they are made of the same "stuff" that other so-called sensory input like sight or touch is made of. is that accurate?

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Do you care more about how you feel or being right?

i care about being right is the answer i usually go for.

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Do you care more about how you feel, or saying whatever thought pops up?

aren't my thoughts indicative of what i feel like?

 

[judy]

Just now, judy said:

i care about being right is the answer i usually go for.

@Phil you like the movie Matrix, right?

and there's this guy who makes a deal to go back to sleep so that he can be rich and happy. i don't want to be like him.

i want to be aware of it if something's wrong. if i am not, i am always vulnerable to bad surprises.

so deluding myself into picking a new interpretation just because it feels better is not an option.

[Phil]

11 minutes ago, judy said:

it's a bit strict and cruel of me to make myself suffer?

How does that interpretation feel? Great or not great?

 

11 minutes ago, judy said:

closure?

knowing how to move on from here to make things right.

And what are you hoping that leads to / why do you want that?

 

11 minutes ago, judy said:

i don't know

Maybe you are experiencing the emotion insecurity. Maybe it’s guidance for interpretations. 

 

11 minutes ago, judy said:

what are thoughts made of?:)

i seem to have felt that they are made of the same "stuff" that other so-called sensory input like sight or touch is made of. is that accurate?

Ok, what is “stuff” made of?

 

11 minutes ago, judy said:

i care about being right is the answer i usually go for

Why?

 

11 minutes ago, judy said:

aren't my thoughts indicative of what i feel like?

Are there two of you? One that knows what the other feels like?

Yes there are two of you or no there aren’t two of you?

 

9 minutes ago, judy said:

@Phil you like the movie Matrix, right?

Yes. It’s more of a documentary.

 

9 minutes ago, judy said:

and there's this guy who makes a deal to go back to sleep so that he can be rich and happy. i don't want to be like him.

i want to be aware of it if something's wrong. if i am not, i am always vulnerable to bad surprises.

so deluding myself into picking a new interpretation just because it feels better is not an option.

It’s an option. The option is just being refused. Wrong & bad are interpretations. 

 

Deluding yourself requires two of you, one to delude the other. 

Are there two of you, yes or no?

[Phil]

@judy

What is the very first line?

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/the-ten-ox-herding-pictures

[Phil]

What are ten ways you care for the body? 

[judy]

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

Maybe you are experiencing the emotion insecurity. Maybe it’s guidance for interpretations.

what's the interpretation?

 

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

Ok, what is “stuff” made of?

isn't the point that i can't know because it is an irreducible mystery?

 

6 minutes ago, Phil said:

Are there two of you? One that knows what the other feels like?

Yes there are two of you or no there aren’t two of you?

 

Yes. It’s more of a documentary.

 

It’s an option. The option is just being refused. Wrong & bad are interpretations. 

 

Deluding yourself requires two of you, one to delude the other. 

Are there two of you, yes or no?

there's one of me. but sometimes there is conflict among several opposing parts.

 

okay so if there is just one of me, i cannot delude myself.

but it would still be weird to simply feel good and pick a nicer interpretation just because.

in terms of survival, it's pretty smart of me to be anxious all the time and hyper-aware of all the risks in the world.

[judy]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

What are ten ways you care for the body? 

1 i eat

2 i drink

3 i sleep

4 i shower every day

5 i put on clothes to keep me warm

6 i go out for walks

7 i do my skin care

8 i get blood work done and take vitamins

9 i got an iron infusion on monday

10 when i feel pain i prepare myself a hot water bottle

[Phil]

4 minutes ago, judy said:

what's the interpretation?

All of what you’re sharing are interpretations. You could go back and look at any interpretation you’ve shared and question how it feels.

 

8 minutes ago, judy said:

Isn't the point that i can't know because it is an irreducible mystery?

That’s a belief on behalf of the separate self of thought. 

It’s believing what you hear. 

It’s not inspecting and finding out. 

Inspect and find out. 

 

9 minutes ago, judy said:

there's one of me. but sometimes there is conflict among several opposing parts.

Ok, so what are these alleged parts made of?

 

9 minutes ago, judy said:

okay so if there is just one of me, i cannot delude myself.

but it would still be weird to simply feel good and pick a nicer interpretation just because.

in terms of survival, it's pretty smart of me to be anxious all the time and hyper-aware of all the risks in the world.

What’s surviving?

[Phil]

10 minutes ago, judy said:

1 i eat

2 i drink

3 i sleep

4 i shower every day

5 i put on clothes to keep me warm

6 i go out for walks

7 i do my skin care

8 i get blood work done and take vitamins

9 i got an iron infusion on monday

10 when i feel pain i prepare myself a hot water bottle

What about alignment?

[judy]

isn't it cruel that i am supposed to un-do all the love i feel for him now?

and to just go away and pretend i never cared about him?

that doesn't seem right to me. that seems so shallow and like love is always just such a lie and it'll never last.

 

if i once felt love for someone, i won't just let that fade away now.

and i should still be able to be a loving presence in his life.

my love should be strong enough to love him the way he is now and i shouldn't have to cancel him out because i'm too weak to maintain this.

 

i don't want him to be gone forever now.

Edited May 2 by judy

[judy]

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

What about alignment?

by not being aligned, i am not taking proper care of the body and i am hurting it, but not being aligned is also a strategy the body adopted to ensure connection and protect itself from abandonment.

[Phil]

5 minutes ago, judy said:

isn't it cruel that i am supposed to un-do all the love i feel for him now?

Who’s suggesting that? 

You or someone else?

 

5 minutes ago, judy said:

and to just go away and pretend i never cared about him?

Who’s suggesting that?

You or someone else?

 

5 minutes ago, judy said:

that doesn't seem right to me. that seems so shallow and like love is always just such a lie and it'll never last.

Therefore, who’s being shallow?

You or someone else?

Who is judging who for being shallow? Is there two of you again?

 

5 minutes ago, judy said:

 

if i once felt love for someone, i won't just let that fade away now.

Perhaps the interpretation that love can fade away feels off. 

 

5 minutes ago, judy said:

and i should still be able to be a loving presence in his life.

my love should be strong enough to love him the way he is now and i shouldn't have to cancel him out because i'm too weak to maintain this.

Who’s shoulding?

[Phil]

6 minutes ago, judy said:

by not being aligned, i am not taking proper care of the body and i am hurting it,

Alignment of thought with feeling. 

6 minutes ago, judy said:

but not being aligned is also a strategy the body adopted to ensure connection and protect itself from abandonment.

Nah. It’s manipulation. 

Virtually every relationship reaches that point, where either the manipulation stops or the relationship ends. 

Blame is an emotion. Blaming the body is overlooking blame is an emotion, is felt. 

That the body adopted anything is a thought, an interpretation. How’s blaming the body feel to the body?

[judy]

16 minutes ago, Phil said:

Who’s suggesting that? 

You or someone else?

my friends are suggesting i should forget about him now but i feel like that's cruel.

if i love someone i won't just stop.

 

16 minutes ago, Phil said:

Therefore, who’s being shallow?

You or someone else?

Who is judging who for being shallow? Is there two of you again?

i need to figure out what to do, which is why there's pressure.

 

16 minutes ago, Phil said:

Perhaps the interpretation that love can fade away feels off.

it really does.

but then i still cannot express it anymore or i can only feel it from a distance.

and i don't know if we will ever talk to each other again. if we don't, maybe that's really bad then.

 

16 minutes ago, Phil said:

Who’s shoulding?

i am.

i want to. but i don't know if i can?

 

we'll never be able to have the same emotional connection as before, so that's heartbreaking anyway.

but it's also heartbreaking to think i loved someone and to then be forced to stop caring about him and pretend he doesn't exist anymore and eventually he'll be that tiny dot in the past and he'll be completely meaningless to me. i don't want that.

 

but maybe this is also just me compulsively trying to still have some type of meaningful presence in his life, which may never happen.

i just felt like it was meaningful in the beginning and now it's all so messed up and i need to fix that.

 

 

i don't want to stop loving him and i don't want him to be gone forever.

Edited May 2 by judy

[Phil]

9 minutes ago, judy said:

my friends are suggesting i should forget about him now but i feel like that's cruel.

if i love someone i won't just stop.

What’s a better feeling interpretation?

 

9 minutes ago, judy said:

i need to figure out what to do, which is why there's pressure

What about not doing anything and just feeling?

Maybe what you’re seeking is seeking you. 

 

9 minutes ago, judy said:

it really does.

but then i still cannot express it anymore or i can only feel it from a distance.

and i don't know if we will ever talk to each other again. if we don't, maybe that's really bad then.

What’s a better feeling interpretation?

 

9 minutes ago, judy said:

i am.

i want to. but i don't know if i can?

Yes. Interpretations arise, about how it’s because of him, what other people think, the body’s fault, from ignoring blame is an emotion, is felt. 

 

9 minutes ago, judy said:

 

we'll never be able to have the same emotional connection as before, so that's heartbreaking anyway.

but it's also heartbreaking to think i loved someone and to then be forced to stop caring about him and pretend he doesn't exist anymore and eventually he'll be that tiny dot in the past and he'll be completely meaningless to me. i don't want that.

Everyone will. Isn’t it so?

 

9 minutes ago, judy said:

 

but maybe this is also just me compulsively trying to still have some type of meaningful presence in his life, which may never happen.

i just felt like it was meaningful in the beginning and now it's all so messed up and i need to fix that

Seems like you’re doing (thinking) everything you can as not to feel, while all that’s wanted, is feeling. 

[judy]

and he meant something to me so there's no way i'll stop loving him.

 

it'd be so cruel if the only way to stop suffering now was if i stop feeling love for him and just forget and let him drift away.

is that the only way?

 

can't i find a way to keep feeling love for him while stopping to feel so much hurt?? or are the two intertwined and i need to get rid of them both?