Mandy Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said: I've read the Tao Te Ching dozens upon dozens of times. It's one of my favorite spiritual texts of all time. Awesome! I've never read it. Now we can all put this Phil and Mandy and whoever else from this obnoxiously "alive" generation stuff aside and talk about what an asshole Lao Tzu is. Shall I channel him for you, so we can all have a nice argument and get all this out of the way? Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said: The "no self" lingo seems like a sneaky way to avoid any criticism or accountability. Is like how can I be blamed for anything or be held accountable for anything if there are no separate selves. There is no separate self. There are no separate selves. There is not a “no self teaching” or “no separate selves teaching”. There is not “a teacher”, teaching, “no self” or “selves”. That there is a separate self… in time… being improved, becoming enlightened, transcending, which learns, knows or understands, etc… is belief / suppression & the believing of thoughts (justifications, rationalizations, etc, are all of the suppression). That there isn’t a separate self or selves is reality. The ineffable Truth. Self / selves is a thought, a condition as it were. Reality is unconditional. Weird as it may sound, there is infinite consciousness purporting to be a separate finite self, a “teacher”, demeaning & excluding “other teachers”, dogmas, religions and even meditation, via deception and mental & emotional manipulation; “students”… for money, notoriety, self-image inflation, etc… which are actually suppression of truth (Happiness, Goodness, Transparency, Wholeness / Integrity, Innocence). Avoidance is emotional suppression / avoidance of feeling emotions (aversion / suffering); segregation, isolation, exclusivity, elitism, separatism, consciousnessism (beliefs, doctrines, theories about consciousness). Cutting off one’s own foot to save the hand which is cutting the foot. Dis-ease. Delusion. Blame is an emotion. The avoidance of feeling blame is the deflection & projection (isolation, deception, manipulation, etc) - the upholding of, the “separate self” of thoughts. That is what suffering is. Accountability doesn’t change at all, any more than the weather changes by including a weatherman. Perception as it were remains exactly the same without or without beliefs. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Spoiler alert!!! #dirtyfingernails Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Jonas Long said: Spoiler alert!!! #dirtyfingernails So this shows the Tao Te Ching says there's no self? I'm confused. That's a great passage by the way. I'm glad that you're familiar with the text/work. The wisdom vs. words ratio in the Tao Te Ching is probably greater than any other spiritual text ever written. Such a beautiful work too. Edited March 11 by Joseph Maynor Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 8 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: So this shows the Tao Te Ching says there's no self? I'm confused. That's a great passage by the way. I'm glad that you're familiar with the text/work. The wisdom vs. words ratio in the Tao Te Ching is probably greater than any other spiritual text ever written. Such a beautiful work too. The way of the sage is to do his(/her) duty, not to strive with anyone. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 6 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: You need to look up the word projection. All you do is strive with anyone. Indeed, truth sounds like it's opposite! Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said: The "no self" lingo seems like a sneaky way to avoid any criticism A self absorbed, emotionally retarded, semantical nondualist, vapid neo-advaitan teacher stuck in tier 1 who demonizes & vilifies thoughts and whose problem is lack of sleep (this from a so called doctor) would probably disagree. It’s not emotional mastery (state chasing), it’s that nobody cares, because there’s nobody here & nothing’s happening. Seeing deflection, projection, justifications & rationalizes directly in behaviors & actions, and feeling emotions directly… is seeing ‘the boat’ “we’re all in” clearly. Happiness… success? Hell, there’s no one here to strive with! Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Phil said: A self absorbed, emotionally retarded, semantical nondualist, vapid neo-advaitan teacher stuck in tier 1 who demonizes & vilifies thoughts and whose problem is lack of sleep (this from a so called doctor) would probably disagree. It’s not emotional mastery (state chasing), it’s that nobody cares, because there’s nobody here & nothing’s happening. Seeing deflection, projection, justifications & rationalizes directly in behaviors & actions, and feeling emotions directly… is seeing ‘the boat’ “we’re all in” clearly. I'm not judging Neo-Advaita definitively. I like it but I stick to Maharshi as to interpretation. That's my preference. And a lot of people don't consider him to be Neo-Advaita. It's his students that are usually considered Neo-Advaita. Maharshi was an original and hugely influential. He's like Shankara to me. The followers of Maharshi created Neo-Advaita. Edited March 11 by Joseph Maynor Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: I'm not judging Neo-Advaita definitively. I like it but I stick to Maharshi as to interpretation. What’s Neo-Advaita Joseph? In your words please. Not Wiki. Not conjecture from self proclaimed teachers. Not an interpretation of Maharshi. In your words. What you ‘hold it’ to mean. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Phil said: What’s Neo-Advaita Joseph? In your words please. Not Wiki. Not conjecture from self proclaimed teachers. Not an interpretation of Maharshi. In your words. What you ‘hold it’ to mean. Neo-Advaita is a simplification of Advaita Vedanta designed to appeal to Western audiences. This wiki article isn't half bad: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Advaita Edited March 11 by Joseph Maynor Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: Neo-Advaita is a simplification of Advaita Vedanta designed to appeal to Western audiences. This wiki article isn't half bad: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Advaita That's not a definition. And you were specifically asked for your own words, not a wiki link. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: Neo-Advaita is a simplification of Advaita Vedanta designed to appeal to Western audiences. Ramana Maharshi didn't really even talk about non-duality unless it was necessary. How do you get more simple than that? How do you simplify silence to western audiences? Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 13 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: I'm not judging Neo-Advaita definitively. I like it but I stick to Maharshi as to interpretation. That's my preference. And a lot of people don't consider him to be Neo-Advaita. It's his students that are usually considered Neo-Advaita. Maharshi was an original and hugely influential. He's like Shankara to me. The followers of Maharshi created Neo-Advaita. What Maharshi? Maharshi is a title, not referring to a particular person. It's exactly the misunderstanding here that names refer to particular separate people. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Mandy said: What Maharshi? Maharshi is a title, not referring to a particular person. It's exactly the misunderstanding here that names refer to particular separate people. You haven't read Maharshi. Maybe you should. Get it from a true source. His works are available. It will change your life. Edited March 11 by Joseph Maynor Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 @Joseph Maynor Oh, I'm ready. We can channel anyone you like as long as they've croaked. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said: You haven't ready Maharshi. You haven't read Mandy. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: You haven't read Maharshi. Maybe you should. Get it from a true source. His works are available. It will change your life. 9 minutes ago, Mandy said: What Maharshi? Maharshi is a title, not referring to a particular person. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 5 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: You haven't read Maharshi. Maybe you should. Get it from a true source. His works are available. It will change your life. You haven't read Mr. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 24 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: Neo-Advaita is a simplification of Advaita Vedanta designed to appeal to Western audiences. This wiki article isn't half bad: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Advaita How is… the new not two… a simplification of… not two? Does new not two include someone who designed, and western audiences? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 13 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: You haven't read Maharshi. Maybe you should. Get it from a true source. His works are available. It will change your life. so...just any of them? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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