Why is suicide a thing?

[Blessed2]

It's said that the so-called depressive disorder, and especially the severe forms of it, are highly lethal illnesses. I remember reading somewhere that a severe depression can have lethality up to 90%.

 

It got me thinking... How come, that so many people, regardless of cultural background etc. when they experience discordant self-referential thoughts, also often experience suicidal ideation? I bet most of us have had at least a few personal experiences of suicidal thoughts.

 

Thohgh no-one knows what happens after death. In that sense, who knows, it could be even worse than life.

 

So how come suicidal ideation is so common? Why is it that we seem to kind of universally assume death is some kind of a solution to suffering, even though at the same time, we don't really know what death will be like? That doesn't make any sense.

 

There is really no actual reason to assume that death would hold any more of significance in terms of relieving suffering than blowing up mailboxes with fireworks. Yet we don't see 90% of severely depressed people blowing up mailboxes. You follow?

 

Similarly, if there really is no death... Then why is there a belief in death? Why isn't there a belief in flying rainbow cows? Same for the belief in birth btw.

 

Makes me think there's a very clever deception at play here somewhere.

 

It's like at the same time we assume we know what death holds, yet also assume we don't. 😂

 

Edited February 25 by Blessed2

[Reena]

Suicide ideation occupied 90% of my life. It's mostly just due to suffering and not much to do with beliefs.

[Ceejay]

10 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

Similarly, if there really is no death...

There really is no death?

 

10 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

is it that we seem to kind of universally assume death is some kind of a solution to suffering,

I don't think one could actually ever know if it is universally assumed that death is a solution.

10 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

There is really no actual reason to assume that death would hold any more of significance in terms of relieving suffering

Maybe it is the identification with the body that one is seeking to sever here, due to immense discomfort.

Edited February 25 by Ceejay

[Blessed2]

4 minutes ago, Ceejay said:

There really is no death?

 

Huh?

 

4 minutes ago, Ceejay said:

I don't think one could actually ever know if it is universally assumed that death is a solution.

 

Yeah but that's not quite the point. To be more specific, we can lose the term "universal" and say most, if not all of us, experience suicidal thoughts when focusing on intensely discordant thoughts.

 

And to be more specific, I experience suicidal thoughts when focusing on intensely discordant thoughts. That "most of us" experience similar thing is of course assumption. It's just pointing.

 

8 minutes ago, Ceejay said:

Maybe it is the identification with the body that one is seeking to sever here, due to immense discomfort.

 

Yeah but that there wouldn't be a body in death is a total assumption.

 

[Blessed2]

I think the "clever deception" here could be that death is in fact belief (our creation), which would answer why death is assumed to be both known and not known.

 

Edited February 25 by Blessed2

[Mandy]

It's the materialist paradigm interpretation of getting rid of the ego filtered through the lens of despair or extreme beliefs of seperation.  

 

 

[Ceejay]

7 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

Yeah but that there wouldn't be a body in death is a total assumption.

Yes, but the gross body that one is used to would be hanging from the ceiling. That (gross) body has expired in suicide.

[Robed Mystic]

11 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

It's said that the so-called depressive disorder, and especially the severe forms of it, are highly lethal illnesses. I remember reading somewhere that a severe depression can have lethality up to 90%.

 

It got me thinking... How come, that so many people, regardless of cultural background etc. when they experience discordant self-referential thoughts, also often experience suicidal ideation? I bet most of us have had at least a few personal experiences of suicidal thoughts.

 

Thohgh no-one knows what happens after death. In that sense, who knows, it could be even worse than life.

 

So how come suicidal ideation is so common? Why is it that we seem to kind of universally assume death is some kind of a solution to suffering, even though at the same time, we don't really know what death will be like? That doesn't make any sense.

 

There is really no actual reason to assume that death would hold any more of significance in terms of relieving suffering than blowing up mailboxes with fireworks. Yet we don't see 90% of severely depressed people blowing up mailboxes. You follow?

 

Similarly, if there really is no death... Then why is there a belief in death? Why isn't there a belief in flying rainbow cows? Same for the belief in birth btw.

 

Makes me think there's a very clever deception at play here somewhere.

 

It's like at the same time we assume we know what death holds, yet also assume we don't. 😂

 

They don't think as deeply as you are about death.   You are far more conscious than most who take their own lives.   That's not a knock on them - that's just saying you have found some of the best teachings on the planet and you have pondered reality itself.  They aren't pondering reality itself - They are IN reality seeing no hope but not going meta on the framework itself.   When you feel hopeless within a dream at night are you questioning the dream itself? Probably not.   This is why enlightenment is liberation.  Because it frees you from the shackles of the ego mind.

[Blessed2]

18 minutes ago, Mandy said:

It's the materialist paradigm interpretation of getting rid of the ego filtered through the lens of despair or extreme beliefs of seperation.  

 

Hmm... That makes a bit more sense.

 

Do you see what I mean by death being both assumed to be known and not known at the same time? Like how cleverly deceptive belief is I guess.

 

[Blessed2]

20 minutes ago, Ceejay said:

Yes, but the gross body that one is used to would be hanging from the ceiling. That (gross) body has expired in suicide.

 

This is also assumption. It is not known what death holds, yet millions of people choose to commit suicide. So is death known or not known?

 

[Blessed2]

23 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

They don't think as deeply as you are about death.   You are far more conscious than most who take their own lives.

 

Weird place to go to buddy.

 

[Robed Mystic]

3 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

Weird place to go to buddy.

 

Maybe, but if you ask them if they have sat in meditation and pondered their own existence, and thus, death, perhaps they would find another outcome?   Yes - there is mental illness  .yes, there is a real disorder called depression.   I have felt it and I have felt suffering.  And yet - it can be realized that it is an illusion.  Even in the midst of it 

Edited February 25 by Robed Mystic

[Mandy]

12 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

Hmm... That makes a bit more sense.

 

Do you see what I mean by death being both assumed to be known and not known at the same time? Like how cleverly deceptive belief is I guess.

 

Yeah, you can't know that you don't know. That's the suffering of doubt, fear or confusion, when it's assumed that someone knows that they don't know. Yet knowing that you don't know with peace and love is wisdom. 🤷‍♀️ That's why we really can't say anything about anything except to point to feeling, and you "know" by how it feels. 

[Blessed2]

24 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

Maybe, but if you ask them if they have sat in meditation and pondered their own existence, and thus, death, perhaps they would find another outcome?   Yes - there is mental illness  .yes, there is a real disorder called depression.   I have felt it and I have felt suffering.  And yet - it can be realized that it is an illusion.  Even in the midst of it 

 

You're not answering or responding to the point of the thread.

 

The question is similar to why is Pi exactly 3.14159... and not 3.24259...

 

And you answer "because they're not thinking about Pi as deeply as you."

 

That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Blessed2]

24 minutes ago, Mandy said:

Yeah, you can't know that you don't know. That's the suffering of doubt, fear or confusion, when it's assumed that someone knows that they don't know. Yet knowing that you don't know with peace and love is wisdom. 🤷‍♀️ That's why we really can't say anything about anything except to point to feeling, and you "know" by how it feels. 

 

💪

[Robed Mystic]

4 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

You're not answering or responding to the point of the thread.

 

The question is similar to why is Pi exactly 3.14159... and not 3.24259...

 

And you answer "because they're not thinking about Pi as deeply as you."

 

That doesn't make any sense.

 

Why is Pi 3.14159 and not 3.24259?  Because it's being 3.14159 and not 3.24259.  That's why.  Suicide exists because it is.   It can exist so it does.   Why is a question you are projecting onto what already is.

Edited February 25 by Robed Mystic

[Blessed2]

56 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

Why is Pi 3.14159 and not 3.24259?  Because it's being 3.14159 and not 3.24259.  That's why.  Suicide exists because it is.   It can exist so it does.   Why is a question you are projecting onto what already is.

 

I was not asking why is Pi 3.141. I was making a point.

 

Your answer wasn't "suicide exists because it is". Your answer was "because they're not thinking as deeply as you".

 

[Robed Mystic]

10 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

I was not asking why is Pi 3.141. I was making a point.

 

Your answer wasn't "suicide exists because it is". Your answer was "because they're not thinking as deeply as you".

 

My answer was both.  I always begin in the relative domain.  But you pushed me to the Absolute domain.   And I can appreciate that. 

[Ceejay]

@Mandy 

1 hour ago, Mandy said:

Yeah, you can't know that you don't know.

this above sentence

&

this below sentence

1 hour ago, Mandy said:

Yet knowing that you don't know with peace and love is wisdom.

seems contradicting

...

 

1 hour ago, Mandy said:

doubt, fear or confusion,

if I interpret you correctly you said doubt, fear and confusion is believing to know what you don't know...

 

I don't get it.

 

Say I am driving a bike and a car suddenly appears to be coming to hit me superfast -- during this time I have fear... how is what you are saying applicable here?

 

If it isn't applicable, please provide a suitable example if you can.

[Ceejay]

2 hours ago, Robed Mystic said:

just saying you have found some of the best teachings on the planet and you have pondered reality itself

This could go to the gratitude journal.