Is "not valuing socializing" a denial?

[Jonas Long]

Just now, Reena said:

Could mental illness and underlying mental state play a role too? 

 

Of course, a dramatic role, by necessity.

[Phil]

@Reena

Psychedelics are experientially mind expanding for sure and serve in alleviating the discord of conditioning, but they don’t dispel in any permanent sense. They can’t and rightfully shouldn’t be ‘held’ or expected to contain such a power. Beliefs such as I’m introverted, shy, inferior, unworthy etc might and with proper set, setting and dosage likely would be be seen through, but this doesn’t actually change the underlying thought patterns / identity / personality by which the self referential belief arose. The separate self / patterns of thought can and often do seem to hijack the psychedelic experience via a narrative which purports the conditioning playing out as something else altogether. New found wisdom, karma, increased consciousness, becoming enlightened, being the one who knows how you can become enlightened, losing my enlightenment, etc, etc. 

 

Mental illness is like the other side of the pendulum. A retracting as compared to grandiose spiritual ego. There is discord & alignment of whatever thought activity is, now, but (perhaps ultimately if you will) mental illness is ‘laid bare’ as, the thought ‘mental illness’, and there is only how that thought feels. 

 

Getting back to socializing, these aspects in adolescents often play out as a pushing away of friends, family - any one that stands to help by pointing out what’s being pointed out in this thread. ‘Toxicity’ etc (projection) is employed rather than introspection and the resulting alignment in terms of thought with feeling; the lasting dispelling. With compassion, it’s admittedly a formidable undergoing and so to speak, not every one is in a place to undergo it, especially if meaning, value, purpose etc have been exceptionally ‘clung to’, let alone an identity constructed of knowing, understanding & all the deception  and conviction inherent in ‘teaching others’ to deceive ‘themselves’ and ‘others’ therein. One big perpetuation vs breaking of, the cycle.

 

Everything is indeed working out perfectly though. Who are we to assume what’s better for anyone having such an experience, and anyone which would other wise be experiencing ‘them’ in terms of relationships, friendships, etc. 

[Jonas Long]

There's something to be said for the humility you get from hanging out with your peers.  I can easily see how someone who avoids others throughout life, but especially when young, can become extremely narcissistic, self important, big headed, or blind to their own foibles, because it's other people who point those things out.  It comes in the form of lighthearted ribbing, not bullying, that's something else.  But someone who isn't socialized, especially growing up, can start to take every lighthearted ribbing as "bullying" and take themselves way too seriously, and never really get a realistic perspective.  Maybe. 

[Joseph Maynor]

It's better to be well by yourself than sick with another.  

[Reena]

16 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

It's better to be well by yourself than sick with another.  

Sometimes relationships are a doorway to growth. If you hadn't known someone, you probably wouldn't have known yourself better? What do you think of it? 

 

[Phil]

22 hours ago, Jonas Long said:

There's something to be said for the humility you get from hanging out with your peers. 

I agree. But, while the conditioning cycle hasn’t been addressed & broken it is being projected onto peers, family, friends and relationships therein. It’s ‘on the lens’, bubbles yet burst. Filters of deception, distorting interpretation & relationships. ‘They are toxic and must be cut’ etc. Commonly referred to as arrogance, ignorance and suffering, as opposed to humbleness, sincerity & kindness - happiness. None of this is heard through the filter. Much doing something about this is not acknowledged as seeking & aversion through that filter.  One remains convinced to the contrary. 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

8 hours ago, Reena said:

Sometimes relationships are a doorway to growth. If you hadn't known someone, you probably wouldn't have known yourself better? What do you think of it? 

 

 

You have a relationship with yourself that is a doorway to growth.  Being alone isn't a solo affair.  

Edited October 20, 2023 by Joseph Maynor

[Jonas Long]

5 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

You have a relationship with yourself that is a doorway to growth.  Being alone isn't a solo affair.  

But if you are avoiding people that's an indication that you need to do work in that particular area.  Avoidance of fear and pain is how to not grow.  It's very easy to fool yourself when there's no one around the challenge or question you. 

If you have a toothache, the solution is not to never use that particular tooth, something needs to be addressed. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Jonas Long

[Phil]

6 hours ago, Jonas Long said:

But if you are avoiding people that's an indication that you need to do work in that particular area.  Avoidance of fear and pain is how to not grow.  It's very easy to fool yourself when there's no one around the challenge or question you. 

If you have a toothache, the solution is not to never use that particular tooth, something needs to be addressed. 

Amen! 🙏🏼 

 

The finite mind will just weave up narratives of justifications and rationalizations to account for fear, what it now knows about it, and now there’s that conditioning too. 🤦 

[Joseph Maynor]

Socializing is the most important thing.  Otherwise you get stuck in your own head.  You need to mingle with other perspectives to grow.  Other people can teach you a lot of things and press you on things you would never press yourself on.