Is "not valuing socializing" a denial?

[Jonas Long]

Just now, Reena said:

Why would you think that? What specific example you give to support that they aren't logical? 

 

Lots of people I know.  And there is that stereotype of a "spiritual" person who's all hippy drippy, spaced out and friendly/very social, more so than cold logic.  There's both.  Spiritual people come in every variety of personality type there is. 

[Reena]

You can count me in whenever you think of such people. 

My own profile as per your description - 

Spiritually oriented - yes 

Introvert - yes 

Do I prefer socializing - depends a lot on the crowd I'm having to deal with at any point of time. Deal is not such a pleasant word. It indicates pressure or stress. Yes. I find socializing stressful. I can't have fun. Mostly I'm usually pissed off at all the games. 

Self help type - I'm mega savvy with self help 

Social awkwardness - yes definitely. I'm very shy in social situations. I'm unable to even start conversations. 

Anti social tendencies - yes. I'm a bit like that. I'd rather feel better alone, if that's what anti social means. The definition of anti social is not exactly ever clear to me. 

Fear of other people - I have social anxiety. 

 

One notable difference if I have to draw comparisons from your post -  I don't have an air of superiority with regard to spirituality. I never claim that I'm better or "higher" than other people. It's not my forte to do that. That's odd to me. 

 

[Reena]

9 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Lots of people I know.  And there is that stereotype of a "spiritual" person who's all hippy drippy, spaced out and friendly/very social, more so than cold logic.  There's both.  Spiritual people come in every variety of personality type there is. 

I think what I gather from your post is that it could be anywhere on the spectrum, like an  oscillating thing, from feeling awkward to feeling stressed to feeling "not accepted" because of their beliefs or whatever, feeling isolated or pushed out, fear of being judged or general anxiety, feeling anti social, feeling short on time (this is big I swear) and social factors that make socializing not an easy thing, not smooth or desirable, the feeling of dealing with childish immature people most of the time. 

The thing with spiritual people is that they are strict (not all of them, there's a spectrum), so they can be incredibly sensitive to even minor things that feel like it doesn't align with their goals, also I think spiritual people are more aware of their own mortality and this plays a significant role in how they view socializing and society in general. 

So it's somewhere on a spectrum you see, a combination of both internal and external factors, internal meaning their own problems with their personalities and external factors of people's behavior compounding the complexity of the situation, adding to their annoyance and disdain and this combined with their spiritual beliefs which are not aligned or in conflict with what a general crowd wants. So all of the above. 

 

[Jonas Long]

9 minutes ago, Reena said:

You can count me in whenever you think of such people. 

My own profile as per your description - 

Spiritually oriented - yes 

Introvert - yes 

Do I prefer socializing - depends a lot on the crowd I'm having to deal with at any point of time. Deal is not such a pleasant word. It indicates pressure or stress. Yes. I find socializing stressful. I can't have fun. Mostly I'm usually pissed off at all the games. 

Self help type - I'm mega savvy with self help 

Social awkwardness - yes definitely. I'm very shy in social situations. I'm unable to even start conversations. 

Anti social tendencies - yes. I'm a bit like that. I'd rather feel better alone, if that's what anti social means. The definition of anti social is not exactly ever clear to me. 

Fear of other people - I have social anxiety. 

 

One notable difference if I have to draw comparisons from your post -  I don't have an air of superiority with regard to spirituality. I never claim that I'm better or "higher" than other people. It's not my forte to do that. That's odd to me. 

 

I'm an introvert too but I value social interactions.  Even this forum, forums in general are social media, it's not quite the same as in person but it's still social.  I think if socializing is a weak point and you're into  self help, then that should be one of the things you work to get better at, not using self help or spirituality to justify not doing.  I think it's an extremely important part of the human experience, for most of us anyway.  For me, so much growth happens as a result of socializing.  You don't get anywhere in a vacuum.  There is no "self" help anyway, it all comes from other people, from books or "self help" gurus.  You don't do anything alone, really. 

[Jonas Long]

3 minutes ago, Reena said:

I think what I gather from your post is that it could be anywhere on the spectrum, like an  oscillating thing, from feeling awkward to feeling stressed to feeling "not accepted" because of their beliefs or whatever, feeling isolated or pushed out, fear of being judged or general anxiety, feeling anti social, feeling short on time (this is big I swear) and social factors that make socializing not an easy thing, not smooth or desirable, the feeling of dealing with childish immature people most of the time. 

The thing with spiritual people is that they are strict (not all of them, there's a spectrum), so they can be incredibly sensitive to even minor things that feel like it doesn't align with their goals, also I think spiritual people are more aware of their own mortality and this plays a significant role in how they view socializing and society in general. 

So it's somewhere on a spectrum you see, a combination of both internal and external factors, internal meaning their own problems with their personalities and external factors of people's behavior compounding the complexity of the situation, adding to their annoyance and disdain and this combined with their spiritual beliefs which are not aligned or in conflict with what a general crowd wants. So all of the above. 

 

That sounds like avoidance though, which is not the most healthy thing.  To me, the most spiritually advanced people are the ones who can be just as happy alone, with groups of people, with anyone.  Not getting triggered or bothered by these differences is the ultimate thing. And being able to bring something of value to any interaction. 

[Reena]

1 minute ago, Jonas Long said:

I'm an introvert too but I value social interactions.  Even this forum, forums in general are social media, it's not quite the same as in person but it's still social.

 

 

I agree. That's why an introvert like me is hanging out here. At least I don't feel like I'm attending a party or walking on stage. Tough social or overt social situations can give me nerves. Writing feels less personal than a video call. Although there are significant disadvantages to this. Texting does not allow me to feel or see what a person looks like. Their micro expressions (usually I'm good at reading those). So no body language in texting makes it hard for me to know if I'm resonating with the other person. Whereas a big advantage, in contrast with video conference call is that I get to see, in person I get a hands on experience of the person I'm talking to, no matter how daunting to might seem, the feeling is very tangible, it's a huge shift, the body language, the whole package can make me feel extra stimulated and it has some degree of mental intimacy involvement too. 

1 minute ago, Jonas Long said:

  I think if socializing is a weak point and you're into  self help, then that should be one of the things you work to get better at, not using self help or spirituality to justify not doing. 

Should I compromise the time I spend doing and learning spiritual stuff with trying to get better at socializing? What's my reward and what are my losses? If I value spirituality a mega ton, then any minute that takes me off it feels like a huge loss. What's the tradeoff? 

 

1 minute ago, Jonas Long said:

 

I think it's an extremely important part of the human experience, for most of us anyway. 

Is it really and why? 

Is it only because of endorphins? 

1 minute ago, Jonas Long said:

 

For me, so much growth happens as a result of socializing.  You don't get anywhere in a vacuum.  There is no "self" help anyway, it all comes from other people, from books or "self help" gurus. 

This is a debate that can vary in its outcome depending on who you're asking - an extrovert or an introvert. 

Although I have a huge appetite for growth, as an introvert I saw massive growth when I was in solitude and this continued for years. I didn't read a single book during the time. My own mind was my haven of new ideas. I wasn't living in my head though. 

 

1 minute ago, Jonas Long said:

 

You don't do anything alone, really. 

This is odd to be frank. I do much of my spiritual work alone. It's mega and massive and I spent 7 years doing it alone. I spent an additional 10 years during my childhood doing it. I started at 9.

[Reena]

12 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

That sounds like avoidance though, which is not the most healthy thing.  To me, the most spiritually advanced people are the ones who can be just as happy alone, with groups of people, with anyone.  Not getting triggered or bothered by these differences is the ultimate thing. And being able to bring something of value to any interaction. 

This is what you describe as demeanor. Difference between demeanor and orientation. You could be wanting to be happy with someone. But if you got work cut out for you, then you will scarcely put the effort or time into being happy with someone and frankly not even spend time with them even if you feel happy. Your demeanor might be happy and easy going as a spiritual person. But your orientation might  make you savvy and wanting to go back to your spiritual work. 

Spiritual  work is a continuum. 

 

[Jonas Long]

3 minutes ago, Reena said:

 

I agree. That's why an introvert like me is hanging out here. At least I don't feel like I'm attending a party or walking on stage. Tough social or overt social situations can give me nerves. Writing feels less personal than a video call. Although there are significant disadvantages to this. Texting does not allow me to feel or see what a person looks like. Their micro expressions (usually I'm good at reading those). So no body language in texting makes it hard for me to know if I'm resonating with the other person. Whereas a big advantage, in contrast with video conference call is that I get to see, in person I get a hands on experience of the person I'm talking to, no matter how daunting to might seem, the feeling is very tangible, it's a huge shift, the body language, the whole package can make me feel extra stimulated and it has some degree of mental intimacy involvement too. 

Should I compromise the time I spend doing and learning spiritual stuff with trying to get better at socializing? What's my reward and what are my losses? If I value spirituality a mega ton, then any minute that takes me off it feels like a huge loss. What's the tradeoff? 

 

Is it really and why? 

Is it only because of endorphins? 

This is a debate that can vary in its outcome depending on who you're asking - an extrovert or an introvert. 

Although I have a huge appetite for growth, as an introvert I saw massive growth when I was in solitude and this continued for years. I didn't read a single book during the time. My own mind was my haven of new ideas. I wasn't living in my head though. 

 

This is odd to be frank. I do much of my spiritual work alone. It's mega and massive and I spent 7 years doing it alone. I spent an additional 10 years during my childhood doing it. I started at 9.

There is no quicker way to grow than getting out of your comfort zone.  Does there need to be a tradeoff?  The tradeoff is the unknown.  Anyone you meet has the capacity to change your whole life.  Every person is a whole universe.  Learn how to interact in a way that where you always get something from it, learn something new about them, the world, yourself.  It can't be underestimated, really.   Avoidance is neurotic, for any reason.  I've spent time in my life where I was paralyzed by other people and social anxiety, I get it.  But to me it's infinitely worth getting g over.  What are most of the problems people are talking about here?  Problems relating to other people.  That takes up mental bandwidth.  The only thing for it learning how to handle relations and interactions better.  It's not a separate thing from spiritual work, everything is part of it. 

[Reena]

Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if a spiritual person said that socializing is a distraction from their work. Not at all. 

[Jonas Long]

Just now, Reena said:

Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if a spiritual person said that socializing is a distraction from their work. Not at all. 

I wouldn't either, I hear it all the time, that's why I'm asking about this here. 

[Reena]

1 minute ago, Jonas Long said:

The only thing for it learning how to handle relations and interactions better.  I

Why to even learn this? 

[Reena]

A lot of people who do this work are spiritually bypassing. Factor that in (too). 

 

[Jonas Long]

6 minutes ago, Reena said:

Why to even learn this? 

So you can avoid those problems people are always having. 

[Reena]

1 minute ago, Jonas Long said:

So you can avoid those problems people are always having. 

You avoid people. You avoid problems. Simple shit.

 

[Jonas Long]

1 minute ago, Reena said:

You avoid people. You avoid problems. Simple shit.

 

You cant avoid people though.  And that solution isn't really a solution, it's avoiding the problem.  

[Reena]

1 minute ago, Jonas Long said:

You cant avoid people though.  And that solution isn't really a solution, it's avoiding the problem.  

Avoiding people is not that hard. But then you'll begin to suffer the " missing out" complex. I don't know what's that theoretically called. You begin to feel you might be missing out on something. Like the way I always feel I'm missing out on sex. 

Anyway, life is short and most people are looking for simple stuff. Socializing can be complex. If you met nice folks, it's good. Mostly socializing can feel like drama. And I hate drama. 

[Reena]

I also think that spiritual people have a certain logic. Not what we generally refer to as logic. But their own grand of delusional logic I guess, certainly is the case with me. I do all kinds of crazy stuff in the name of spirituality. But I consider it bravery. Someone else might call me insane and delusional. 

But for me, I see my own logic in my insanity. 

 

[Jonas Long]

5 minutes ago, Reena said:

Avoiding people is not that hard. But then you'll begin to suffer the " missing out" complex. I don't know what's that theoretically called. You begin to feel you might be missing out on something. Like the way I always feel I'm missing out on sex. 

Anyway, life is short and most people are looking for simple stuff. Socializing can be complex. If you met nice folks, it's good. Mostly socializing can feel like drama. And I hate drama. 

Isolation is really bad psychologically for most people.  There's a reason they put prisoners in solitary confinement.  Avoiding the thing you are scared of is no way to live, or to grow.  And the consequences of it are almost certainly going to be just more pain.  Instead of doing the work, facing your fears, and coming out much happier.  

[Jonas Long]

4 minutes ago, Reena said:

I also think that spiritual people have a certain logic. Not what we generally refer to as logic. But their own grand of delusional logic I guess, certainly is the case with me. I do all kinds of crazy stuff in the name of spirituality. But I consider it bravery. Someone else might call me insane and delusional. 

But for me, I see my own logic in my insanity. 

 

Delusion is the exact opposite of true spirituality.  

[Reena]

5 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Delusion is the exact opposite of true spirituality.  

Who can decide if delusion is wrong? On what grounds?