Jonas Long Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 go to a gym and see a therapist for confidence and physique. pickup is a scam. it's predatory to men by targeting their insecurities and milking them for tons of money, and predatory to women in just about every way, from rhetoric like "targets" to "body count". demeaning predatory all around, BULLSHIT. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: There is no such thing as a "true thought". None of this is about being right or knowing the truth. It's about how you feel. And you only ever feel now. It's all about how you feel now. Feeling is self-evident. Figuring out women and trying to be attractive to women etc etc. Is nonsense. Not being in your senses. Not listening the guidance. The truth is, we are all already married and closer still. Literally infinite ever-expanding orgasm of perfect intimacy and unconditional love. That's You. That's what feeling is pointing to. Hypocrisy, men and women in denial, attraction tactics, relationships, marriages, etc etc. is just clouding of that Eternal Super Orgasmic Disney Love. Here's the problem with that, these guys have been conditioned to NOT follow their feelings, they've been conditioned to repress masculinity. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Devin said: Here's the problem with that, these guys have been conditioned to NOT follow their feelings, they've been conditioned to repress masculinity. which guys? who has said "repress your masculinity"? you keep bringing that up. sounds like a strawman to me. Edited October 9, 2023 by Jonas Long Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) @Blessed2 Exhibit A. 4 minutes ago, Jonas Long said: and predatory to women in just about every way, from rhetoric like "targets" to "body count". demeaning predatory all around, BULLSHIT. Alot of guys just want sex, they don't want to talk to the girl every night about her feelings, people like Jonas condemn these types of feelings. Edited October 9, 2023 by Devin Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, Jonas Long said: go to a gym and see a therapist for confidence and physique. pickup is a scam. it's predatory to men by targeting their insecurities and milking them for tons of money, and predatory to women in just about every way, from rhetoric like "targets" to "body count". demeaning predatory all around, BULLSHIT. You can take away helpful elements from a organization/group/religion without buying into every single aspect of it. Assuming that learning pickup means you'll automatically turn into some stereotypical red pill alpha male dude is a bit of black and white thinking imo. Groups are composed of unique individuals who have their own beliefs and values. Not every guy in pickup is a demeaning sexist rapist asshole. Some of them are just decent dudes trying to chat up girls at a bar. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Devin said: @Blessed2 Exhibit A. Alot of guys just want sex, they don't want to talk to the girl every night about her feelings, people like Jonas condemn these types of feelings. It's funny how women very much have their own "selfish" desires that they want to fulfill just like men. But for some reason they have the moral high ground. Again, I don't see any issue with it at all. I say we embrace that and stop acting all high and mighty. Kinda like how homosexuality is hated on, gay people are expected to just turn off their gayness. Same thing for guys, we are born with these natural drives and were asked to pretend they aren't there or turn them off. Which is anti nature. And 100 percent ego ironically. Edited October 9, 2023 by Orb Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 9 minutes ago, Devin said: @Blessed2 Exhibit A. Alot of guys just want sex, they don't want to talk to the girl every night about her feelings, people like Jonas condemn these types of feelings. i don't. i've had lots of "fuck buddies" in my life. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 9 minutes ago, Jonas Long said: which guys? who has said "repress your masculinity"? you keep bringing that up. sounds like a strawman to me. First sentence of the first post. On 9/30/2023 at 4:10 PM, ConsciousDreamer666 said: If most men that struggle to get laid Dude just wants to get laid, that's his feeling. What's your advice for this? " Open up and befriend a nice girl you align with" does that sound masculine or feminine? Now try the pickup approach, " be confident, go up start a conversation and escalate sexually", which one do you think OP would naturally gravitate toward? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 8 minutes ago, Orb said: But for some reason they have the moral high ground. Only in some social circles. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Just now, Devin said: Only in some social circles. actually i remember a post you made a while back whining about how you had casual sex and you didn't like it and thought it was a bad thing people shouldn't do. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Just now, Jonas Long said: actually i remember a post you made a while back whining about how you had casual sex and you didn't like it and thought it was a bad thing people shouldn't do. Your memory is close but not exact, I've never been into casual sex. But yeah I think having one life partner you could go deeper, like everyone you've been with takes up a little space in your mind or psyche a bit. Not that it's immoral. You're conflating a few things, first of all alot of relationships that start of like the pickup thing turn into lifelong partnerships. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, Devin said: Your memory is close but not exact, I've never been into casual sex. But yeah I think having one life partner you could go deeper, like everyone you've been with takes up a little space in your mind or psyche a bit. Not that it's immoral. You're conflating a few things, first of all alot of relationships that start of like the pickup thing turn into lifelong partnerships. and i am into casual sex. i've definitely NEVER said anything against it. so those arguments you assigned to me here are a pure strawman. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Jonas Long said: actually i remember a post you made a while back whining about how you had casual sex and you didn't like it and thought it was a bad thing people shouldn't do. But this is another unfair assumption, Someone wanting to improve his skills with women by chatting up girls at a bar/club doesn't automatically mean he's trying to use girls or have casual sex, he may actually be looking for a girlfriend or trying to get a feel for what kinds of girls he resonates with. Edited October 9, 2023 by Orb Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Orb said: But this is another unfair assumption, Someone wanting to improve his skills with women by chatting up girls at a bar/club doesn't automatically mean he's trying to use girls or have casual sex, he may actually be looking for a girlfriend or trying to get a feel for what kinds of girls he resonates with. like devin pointed out, the OP was about struggling to get laid, specifically, apparently. it seems like i am more sex positive and probably have more experience with that than devin, so why would my advice be bad here? Edited October 9, 2023 by Jonas Long Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Just now, Devin said: Yeah but most guys want a steady girl, makes future sex even easier. fine. tell me again, what is wrong with the advice i've given that goes against having that? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 you can see women as complex individuals and still have any kind of relationships you want with them. i have had all manner of relationships with women all my life, and i'm not giving anyone any advice that would compromise their right to. i haven't said anything against casual sex, masculinity, or whatever else i've been accused of here. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 9 minutes ago, Jonas Long said: like devin pointed out, the OP was about struggling to get laid, specifically, apparently. it seems like i am more sex positive and probably have more experience with that than devin, so why would my advice be bad here? My specific criticism was that it seems you hold the belief that anything involving going out and improving skills with women is somehow bad/sexist/predatory. I agree that there are some guys that are predatory douchebags out there but some guys just want to get "exposure therapy" and see what it's like to talk to girls in public social spaces. I think that's best for conscious dreamer. Hell it doesn't even have to be going to the club or bar, it can be as simple as joining a meetup, young adult church group, yoga class, etc. And just chat up ladies over there and make friends. Experience is everything! I'm seeing that now. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, Jonas Long said: you can see women as complex individuals and still have any kind of relationships you want with them. i have had all manner of relationships with women all my life, and i'm not giving anyone any advice that would compromise their right to. i haven't said anything against casual sex, masculinity, or whatever else i've been accused of here. I agree with that first part, this threads gone on for so long I forgot what a lot of the disagreements were about lol. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Orb said: My specific criticism was that it seems you hold the belief that anything involving going out and improving skills with women is somehow bad/sexist/predatory. I agree that there are some guys that are predatory douchebags out there but some guys just want to get "exposure therapy" and see what it's like to talk to girls in public social spaces. I think that's best for conscious dreamer. Hell it doesn't even have to be going to the club or bar, it can be as simple as joining a meetup, young adult church group, yoga class, etc. And just chat up ladies over there and make friends. Experience is everything! I'm seeing that now. i hold no such belief. you projected that onto me. of course go out and flirt if you want to. i am against pickup specifically because their rhetoric is by definition sexist and predatory. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, Orb said: I agree with that first part, this threads gone on for so long I forgot what a lot of the disagreements were about lol. they were mostly about strawmaning everything mandy, blessed, or I said, because what you agreed with is the gist of all i've been saying. go find a part that isn't that or that you disagree with, without all the projection. Edited October 9, 2023 by Jonas Long Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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