What is the point of having a relationship if to make it succesful one has to deny itself of loving the women?

[ConsciousDreamer666]

So basically after so many rejections of women I´ve adored, I realized that the fact that you might idealize her is not attractive for them.

 

So basically instead of bathing myself in that infatuating super pleasure feeling of love, I need to not 'attach myself' to any girl. Well that is not fun!

I can do that, but what a fucking sad existence that is. The WHOLE POINT of seeking women and getting into relationships is because I can NOT generate that blissful infatuating feeling of love and perfection, and when I met a girl that 'clicks' that inner chemistry start to be generated (as a projection to her, of course, but who cares, the fact is I am experiencing that pleasurable state), that shit is better than any drug.

 

It seems women do NOT want this, or maybe another perspective: The fact that you might be feeling this amazing loving inner chemistry does NOT mean she is feeling it.

 

This is my suspicion: For her to feel a good inner chemistry, you actually CAN NOT feel a good inner chemistry. You need to become a non-attached, masculine, not project any value to her, so she feels whatever the feminine needs to feel from a man, in order to feel attracted. Then she will get that good inner chemistry state from you and then she will be attracted. But, the mindfuck is that then the male inside they won´t feel love towards her, because he had to deny that love in order to become 'masculine' and 'strong' so she could get attracted.

 

So they point is, the relationship game is fucking shit because women are scared to be with a man that opens itself to love. They still are like living in the jungle, they reject and deny love from a man! They want a strong and survival oriented man. This is also seen in sexual excitement. Last girl I met, she was crazy for master-submissive talk. When I didn't give a shit about her and treat her like a submissive cute object she was crazy attracted, once I started to feel love for her and open myself more, she lost total attraction. 

 

Relationships are fucked. The whole fucking point about relationships is getting that sweet feeling of love inside you. If the male has to surrender that in order for the girl to get attracted, what is the fucking point lmao??

 

I´m so disappointed by women. They are fucking scared all the time. Is so fucking sad. They always want the same. Masculine strong man, so they can feel safe and lead by them. Great, now you have a man empty inside. You will never feel connected to him by expecting this behaviour from them.

 

Keep being scared of love. See what that leads you. How fucking ridiculous. Will you ever get that the man is a slave to you? Whatever you expect from us, we will deliver. If you expect this survival chimp stuff, this is what you get. So do not complain afterwards. 

 

A man that had to reject and deny itself loving you because you hate men that actually love. You deny love. You are scared of love. Your heart is not open. Is sad. 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by ConsciousDreamer666

[Mandy]

You don't have to surrender the feeling, if the feeling is pure, and the girl isn't dealing with any sort of trauma or repression that makes her feel unworthy or fearful of receiving that love, that love will meet each other and it's the ONLY way we meet each other. Plenty of girls have trauma, you can't take it as a reflection on you, you can't make it about something YOU do wrong. It's the neediness that turns women off, why?

 

You said it. 

1 hour ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

They are fucking scared all the time. Is so fucking sad.

 

Women are TERRIFIED that if they change their mind about a guy or get to know him better and decide that it's not what she's looking for that the guy will take it personally and kill them, hurt them, or kill or hurt himself. Violence against women and self harm over a break up start with men who don't yet love themselves. Men who don't love themselves believe they need the love of a woman to be "ok".  And it's not uncommon that they resort to revenge and violence when they don't get it, sadly.  Much of women's rejection or lukewarm behavior is acting out of pure fear for her life. It has nothing to do with you, it's a shared collective, trauma. Every woman has heard of a woman who was murdered, or beaten, or vandalized, threatened or blamed for a suicide after a break up or rejection. So she will often act completely reserved until a man shows her that he is fine within himself, that he does not need her love, acceptance or her company in order to love himself. Any sign of neediness is a signal to her that she isn't free, and that she is in a potentially dangerous situation. The confidence is actually about her feeling safe, which is the first step to any real romantic intimacy. Even if all she wants is the chance to get to know the guy, the confidence is a signal that it's safe for her to be curious about him. And curiosity is love in itself, interest and the only really window to intimacy.  But that confidence, which is actually just loving yourself unconditionally, does not mean that you disallow your feelings, it only means that you don't believe the thoughts that say you are unworthy. 

 

Considering this, it's not your responsibility... it's not all on you to act like this perfectly confident man all the time. No man does this all the time, and it would be so boring if he did. Her challenge is just as much to feel safe unconditionally, and she has to do this for herself, not wait for the perfect circumstances. Then she can let the love in. Don't be at a stand off with women, which is really just a stand off with yourself, let yourself be vulnerable. Really, love yourself, be nice to yourself, really watch and question the thoughts that claim you are unworthy, or have to give up something you want, to get something else you want. You can have your cake and eat it too. 

 

 

 

[Phil]

It’s not a state. That’s seeking. State chasing. There’s nothing wrong with seeking. There’s nothing wrong with believing in states.

The suffering is in the rationalizing which obscures that seeking states is seeking & believing in states. 

Attachment is with thoughts, not things. States aren’t things. States are thoughts. 

 

If you call your own rationalizing & mind games out, life & relationships become simple, easy, highly enjoyable. 

You’re experiencing the vibrational match of your attracting. The disappointment isn’t because of or coming from anyone.

 

Identity the influential source of this discordant psychology, notice the effect on their life & yours, wish them well and discontinue use. It’ll unwind, untangle over time naturally. 

 

Stop resenting woman and take ownership of thoughts and emotions, the vibration you’re giving, by expressing appreciation. You can help her acknowledge fear’s an emotion & liberate of it. She can help you with equanimity. It’s really a perfect situation. 

 

And for God’s sake stop beating up yourself like this. 🤍

[Reena]

Yea I agree with your post mostly because I as a woman feel the same way. It's hard on me too. I cannot love a guy who submits to me. I love a guy who doesn't submit to me and keeps me wanting. I don't know if it's hormonal. Maybe because it's polarity. If a man is submissive, the woman's brain probably sees a more feminine downplayed version of him and this probably doesn't generate attraction in her. It's the same problem you're describing ironically but this time it's the female. The woman has to compromise with her feminine side in order to accept a loving man. But this is death of her emotions. Her emotions are primarily linked to wanting a man to lead her, dominate her somewhat. The attraction slowly loses as he succumbs to her because then she doesn't see the magnetism. It's like liking another girl. But this kills female primal sexual response if she isn't lesbian. Even in lesbian relationships, one woman has to dominate the other woman and act authoritarian to mimic traditional male female relationships. So it's impossible for a woman to love a girly guy just like it's impossible for a guy to stay detached. 

It's the nature of this ordeal of male female fantasy that the male has to be naturally aggressive and a bit controlling and leading for her to feel the pull. Only natural males like this can attract the feminine woman. Whereas men who can't be naturally this way might have to accept the fact that they can't attract women. 

I had experiences with both masculine and feminine men. I completely forgot the feminine man. I lost attraction for him. I also didn't feel any love. But with the masculine detached man, I felt an extreme pull like I couldn't forget him. Although he wasn't acting masculine. He was just naturally like that. It's not that easy though. Often such men are ruthless and don't care about her emotions. And the woman can end up feeling ruined. So it's a double edged sword - it can be both wrong and right. 

The masculine feminine polarity is quite interesting and needs an extremely careful balance of both intelligence, integrity, rawness and energy. It's only the fine balance that brings peace to both the man and the woman. 

 

 

 

[Jonas Long]

The world is a lot larger and more diverse people-wise than seems to be presumed here.  There is no "too feminine" a male or "too masculine" a woman to find love.  This belief is super sad and limiting imo. Isn't this the whole "incel" ideology?  Embrace and love your own weird, other people will too eventually.  There are all different kinds of people and relationships.  Forget all this limiting "I'm too, they're too" bullshit.  You're actually fine and worthy of love the way you are, I promise you. 

[Mandy]

26 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

You're actually fine and worthy of love the way you are, I promise you. 

❤️ BOOM ❤️

[ConsciousDreamer666]

5 hours ago, Mandy said:

 

Thanks for the message, that clears for me a lot of things.

I definitely overreacted, I've been thinking about it and I could have just not cared when she told me she only wanted to be friends. But no, my fucking mind had to make a complete fucking horror movie that lasted 7 days about it. 

 

@Mandy Overall your message has given me an interesting perspective on women, appreciate it.

 

 

@Reena "Only natural males". Bro. Like are you calling me a sissy or what? Seems you are fucking with me in that post by calling me feminine man. Lmao get the fuck out of here bitch.

I can do the whole ordeal of treating you like my puppet but I expect more from women, I can do that in bed (and even there it has repercussions ) but outside of that I expect you to be a full fledged human being not just a cute object for me to play with.

Like, I can be masculine, but is so clear to me that is a very high price to pay. One can get into that role for a date, two, etc... But at what price. I find hard to believe that women expect always that from a man.

 

 

*can't unquote 

5 hours ago, Mandy said:

5 hours ago, Mandy said:

@Mandy 

 

[Mandy]

@ConsciousDreamer666 Name calling is prohibited in the forum guidelines. 

[Blessed2]

Hmm. It's not like in Twilight or Fifty Shades of Grey and every other romantic story ever the guy isn't at all 'attached'. At least in both of those the guy goes crazy almost to the point of insanity lol. And women (and me) LOVE those stories.

 

The why it seems like often (men and women alike, actually) don't want you to be attached / chasing might be because they just aren't interested in a serious relationship with you. So they kinda want this "no strings attached" thing. If someone is all in with a serious relationship, of course they want you to be all in too.

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Blessed2

[Reena]

2 hours ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

 "Only natural males". Bro. Like are you calling me a sissy or what? Seems you are fucking with me in that post by calling me feminine man. Lmao get the fuck out of here bitch.

 

Calm down. 

2 hours ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

I can do the whole ordeal of treating you like my puppet but I expect more from women,

This is only your expectation. However sexual biology is not curated to your expectation. A gay man is attracted to another man. A man is generally not attracted to a fat woman. These are just facts of life and one has to embrace how stuff works to understand it better than resent it. I expect men to be more masculine. At the same time I realize that this expectation doesn't meet reality. 

 

2 hours ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

 

I can do that in bed (and even there it has repercussions ) but outside of that I expect you to be a full fledged human being not just a cute object for me to play with.

You're taking this the wrong way. It's not about objectification. It's a dynamic that is created that increases polarity in a couple. Also remember that a lot of women go through traumas of different kinds, and through that their perception is a bit skewed so they need highly masculine men to lead them. It's like you need a motivational coach if you never go to the gym. That sort of a thing. A balance between feminine and masculine might be nice. But masculinity is declining at such a rate that we don't need to overcompensate femininity. Almost everything is feminine. And men aren't encouraged to be masculine anymore, adding to the woes. Being less masculine does not mean weak or "sissy" as you described. It simply means not being in touch with your inner masculinity, not as often as it used to be in the 1920s..Tradtional masculinity is very attractive just like traditional femininity. But all of this requires reinforcing gender stereotypes and cultivating a traditional masculine feminine dynamic. 

 

 

2 hours ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

Like, I can be masculine, but is so clear to me that is a very high price to pay. One can get into that role for a date, two, etc... But at what price. I find hard to believe that women expect always that from a man

 

Your over reaction is a sign of immaturity. You completely flipped the script and took it too personally when I never said anything directly to you. And I was meaning everything conceptually. Calm down your temper and actually try to hear what the other person is saying. 

There is no need to degrade feminine men. We need both masculine and feminine men. This also exists in women as well. Some women are more masculine. They won't need a man to lead them. Everyone is worthy of love but attraction and love aren't the same thing. Of course you can cultivate spiritual love for someone. But romantic attraction is a whole different ball game. It needs a vibe. Otherwise the relationship gets boring very quickly. When I said natural males I meant men who can set this naturally because they don't go through conflict over it, they don't need to pretend to be that way. Whereas for other men this does not come naturally. Just like some people aren't naturally funny. No need to blow it up. Now for men who struggle with this, the solution is to accept oneself or learn the tricks of the game. Although it will feel like acting in a theater. It's difficult to do. But mind training can work. My recommendation would be watch more man - active content. Not manopshere exactly. 

Just watch content, try to lead the woman in your life, try to create that polarity. Up your masculine level. And I don't mean gym. The tone, be domineering and assertive. Over time and practice this will become natural. 

It's the fault of society. We don't pay attention to grooming men to be that way. Keeping everything feminine makes it easy for everyone to control people as you can see with the PC culture. 

Try to understand her response. Generally when a man likes a woman, his first response is to care for her, show how much he wants her or begin to care for her needs. Often this behavior leads to friendzoning. This is not the response a feminine woman is expecting. She wants him to show she can rely on him. Try to change the first thought. The first response should not be to coddle the woman. The first response should be to activate her sexuality by making her desire you. Rest follows automatically. Although this strategy cannot work with a woman who doesn't wish to be dominated. They will most likely describe such a man as "controlling." 

Change the first response from "I want to love her" to "I want her to love me." 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Reena

[Jonas Long]

@Reena it sounds like you maybe internalized some of the "pickup" rhetoric over at actualized.  I would reexamine all these assumptions you have, personally, I don't think they're really helping anyone. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Jonas Long

[Reena]

@Jonas Long Yea some of it, I picked up from men there. But then it was a blessing in disguise. I always had a female centric perspective up until then. What's the point of it if I don't understand the male side of it. I saw how a lot of men thought and then coming to a close encounter with those type of men showed me my own femininity. It was an eye opener. I don't regret it. I learned about polarity and attraction. I came out of the bubble that love is just love. That attraction is not fickle. It's love too. A more passionate love. It doesn't last. Yet it's effect is very intoxicating and mind bending. I appreciate whatever I learned about male psyche. 

 

[Jonas Long]

Stay weird and odd and unique y'all! Don't normal yourself for the other oddball out there who is attracted to your weird! Don't play some dumb social mating dance by the "rules of the game" , fuck that shit!

Edited September 22, 2023 by Jonas Long

[Jonas Long]

7 minutes ago, Reena said:

@Jonas Long Yea some of it, I picked up from men there. But then it was a blessing in disguise. I always had a female centric perspective up until then. What's the point of it if I don't understand the male side of it. I saw how a lot of men thought and then coming to a close encounter with those type of men showed me my own femininity. It was an eye opener. I don't regret it. I learned about polarity and attraction. I came out of the bubble that love is just love. That attraction is not fickle. It's love too. A more passionate love. It doesn't last. Yet it's effect is very intoxicating and mind bending. I appreciate whatever I learned about male psyche. 

 

Don't assume that the men at actualized represent all men, that is not the case.  A lot of them are very insecure and try and mask it with that pickup shit, but those aren't an accurate representation of guys in general.  I say deprogram yourself, it sounds nasty, some of that stuff you picked up and now seem to believe.  

Edited September 22, 2023 by Jonas Long

[Blessed2]

1 minute ago, Jonas Long said:

Stay weird and odd and unique y'all! Don't normal yourself for the other oddball out there who is attracted to your weird! Don't play some dumb social mating dance by the "rules of the game" , fuck that shit!

 

👍

 

Actually opening your eyes and looking at the people around you and experiencing real relationships washes all this masculine / feminine philosophy nonsensery away like it's nothing.

 

[Reena]

4 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Don't assume that the men at actualized represent all men, that is not the case.  A lot of them are very insecure and try and mask it with that pickup shit, but those aren't an accurate representation of guys in general.  I say deprogram yourself, it sounds nasty, some of that stuff you picked up and now seem to believe.  

Well I'm embracing my weird and nasty. I'm staying weird and unique. 

( I didn't find it nasty personally because it tuned with my inner femininity. I don't like repressing my feminine as I always have). 

 

[Jonas Long]

4 minutes ago, Reena said:

Well I'm embracing my weird and nasty. I'm staying weird and unique. 

( I didn't find it nasty personally because it tuned with my inner femininity. I don't like repressing my feminine as I always have). 

 

The thing that would personally repel me the most in a partner is someone who believes all that "attraction theory" and tries to act by it and expects me to.  I can tell anyone who is worried about it that it is absolutely not necessary.

[Reena]

4 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

The thing that would personally repel me the most in a partner is someone who believes all that "attraction theory" and tries to act by it and expects me to.  I can tell anyone who is worried about it that it is absolutely not necessary.

I don't believe in it simply as a concept. I actually experienced it real time and it was amazing. Only thing it wasn't long lasting so I couldn't see the end of it. 

[Jonas Long]

Relationships come in so many more interesting varieties than "masculine male/feminine female" and you are severely limiting yourself to expect only that.  There is polarity and dynamics in every relationship, but that doesn't mean it's this cut and dry thing, people are complex, every relationship is different, to change yourself to try and be in a relationship or be attractive is like a puzzle piece changing itself to be more of a "typical puzzle piece" and thus making itself so it won't actually fit anywhere.  

@Reena it's not to say you can't be as feminine as you like, not at all, be however you are happy.  But I would seriously re examine some of those beliefs you wrote. 

[Reena]

3 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

 

👍

 

Actually opening your eyes and looking at the people around you and experiencing real relationships washes all this masculine / feminine philosophy nonsensery away like it's nothing.

 

You have a point and I could be a bit in my own head.