“Enlightenment” - how did happen for you?

[Rose]

Hey, I was wondering if I could get some insights on this.

 

Call it enlightenment, connecting to the source, ego transcendence, shift in consciousness etc. 

 

Does it usually happen gradually or abruptly? Is it truly just one realization that you can never forget? Once it happens, is it possible for you to ever go back to your prior “way” in life? Or it’s a point of no return?

 

Contrary to what the actualized cult has let me to believe over the years, I don’t think you are likely to be arrogant when enlightened. I think it feels easy and peaceful and joyful. You get more creative because your mind is not constantly occupied with judgments.

 

I want to ask for you to describe it for me, but I don’t know if I should I keep asking questions about this or find out for myself? 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Rose

[Phil]

On 8/10/2023 at 10:59 AM, Rose said:

Does it usually happen gradually or abruptly?

Completely abrupt & entirely unexpected. 

 

In the sense that separation is really thought attachment or the believing of thoughts, meditation could be said to be a gradual leading up to. Yet, meditation is not a gradual happening of. 

 

Kind of like clearing away grass could be said to be a leading up to a garden, but the clearing away of grass isn’t per se a gradual happening of a garden growing.

 

On 8/10/2023 at 10:59 AM, Rose said:

Is it truly just one realization that you can never forget?

No. The term self-realization points, and the hyphen there is kinda important to the pointing…  but ‘it’ isn’t an experience of a realization or multiple realizations, insights, etc.  

 

‘It’s’ being in the noun sense, overlooking being in the noun sense, by being in a verb sense… while never having not been the same being, which isn’t a noun or verb but appears as all nouns & verbs.

 

Less of a getting something like a realization and then not forgetting that something… and more of an already having forgotten yet never suspected that was the case via overlooking. Once obvious it’s impossible to comprehend how ‘it’ wasn’t / isn’t.  

 

On 8/10/2023 at 10:59 AM, Rose said:

Once it happens, is it possible for you to ever go back to your prior “way” in life? Or it’s a point of no return?

More like there being an it, or anything prior, or a way, or a life didn’t happen / wasn’t happening in the first place is not happening right now. This points back to meditation & thought attachment or believing / assuming there is time, something or someone beyond now / outside of direct experience, or that direct experience is a something or a something else which is actually happening to a someone.

 

On 8/10/2023 at 10:59 AM, Rose said:

Contrary to what the actualized cult has let me to believe over the years, I don’t think you are likely to be arrogant when enlightened.

That you’re enlightened would be a continuation of arrogance / ignorance. Likely indicative of taking psychedelics while ignoring / not ‘doing the actual work’… daily meditation, expression, questioning triggers, reactionary behavior / thoughts, dispelling beliefs, especially self referential thoughts, etc. 

 

People do not become enlightened. There is enlightenment, there aren’t people. Wild or not, his is already the case. You are not a person experiencing people. 

 

Enlightenment actually couldn’t be more simple, it’s conditioning which is radical, apparently. 

 

On 8/10/2023 at 10:59 AM, Rose said:

I think it feels easy and peaceful and joyful. You get more creative because your mind is not constantly occupied with judgments.

Yes… easier than easy, peace, joy. But not how an it feels or a you gets more creative… more so the truth & true nature of creation is revealed. Creator-Creating-Creation as a pointer, yet not as a pointer to something or someone else or something anyone could become. ‘To’ what already is. 

 

On 8/10/2023 at 10:59 AM, Rose said:

I want to ask for you to describe it for me, but I don’t know if I should I keep asking questions about this or find out for myself? 

Find out for yourself, absolutely… and there’s nothing wrong with asking questions. Feel free to question without limitation… there is no chance of anyone ever explaining enlightenment to you. Questioning is sort of a dialing in, ruling out what ‘it’ isn’t, similar to how meditation unfetters. 

 

🤍

[Blessed2]

18 minutes ago, Phil said:

Find out for yourself, absolutely… and there’s nothing wrong with asking questions. Feel free to question without limitation… there is no chance of anyone ever explaining enlightenment to you. Questioning is sort of a dialing in, ruling out what ‘it’ isn’t, similar to how meditation unfetters. 

 

Been wondering about doubt... In regard to enlightenment and also some other things that are wanted.

 

Basically, doubt feels off. And if that something feels off means that the interpreration is off, that means that the interpretation of enlightenment / the wanted thing must be off.

 

So what is doubt saying, really? If enlightenment was "seen correctly" so to speak, doubt wouldn't be possible?

 

That maybe when I experience doubt whether I will have what I want, it means I have totally misunderstood something very crucial?

[Mandy]

6 hours ago, Rose said:

Does it usually happen gradually or abruptly? 

Both/neither. 

6 hours ago, Rose said:

Is it truly just one realization that you can never forget?

It's more like the realization of the impossibility of one or forgetting. It both shares the shock to the separate self of being nonpermanent, but also shares the impossibility of loss. 

 

6 hours ago, Rose said:

Once it happens, is it possible for you to ever go back to your prior “way” in life? Or it’s a point of no return?

Best of both worlds. No either/ors. 

 

I'd describe it differently every single time. Now I'd say it was an increase in momentum that started so slow I had no idea what was coming the entire time, but got so fast it's like a Vortex ate me up, like a moth to the flame kind of attraction. Sorta seems like in memory there was a climactic point of nothing, and that was it, boom. Aftermath was both stunningly beautiful and a big ridiculous mess. Could happen again or never again, could happen even faster or far more gradual. I have no idea. You can't talk about it, people will just think you're nuts, or worse, believe you. 

 

Ask the questions of yourself and ask how they feel. Remember you can have your cake and eat it too, best of both worlds. I suspect one key realization proceeding was that there was no such thing as enlightenment, and then it was hilariously just like the plot of The Gruffalo and I was the mouse. 

[Orb]

@Rose initially there's a spiritual awakening, which is the realization of infinite awareness, there's an increased sense of spaciousness, and a honeymoon period that lasts a couple days or weeks. This is often confused as enlightenment and then you'll see usually people proclaiming that they've become enlightened lol, happens to most of us eventually. 

 

then the conditioning sneaks back in and there's deeper inspection of thought, feeling deeper into emotion, learning to surrender to the Tao or "Way" of life. 

 

A deeper wisdom begins to flower, whatever enlightenment was thought to be isn't at all it. 

 

But I can't with a straight face say I'm enlightened...that'd be ridiculous.

[James123]

7 hours ago, Rose said:

Hey, I was wondering if I could get some insights on this.

 

Call it enlightenment, connecting to the source, ego transcendence, shift in consciousness etc. 

 

Does it usually happen gradually or abruptly? Is it truly just one realization that you can never forget? Once it happens, is it possible for you to ever go back to your prior “way” in life? Or it’s a point of no return?

 

Contrary to what the actualized cult has let me to believe over the years, I don’t think you are likely to be arrogant when enlightened. I think it feels easy and peaceful and joyful. You get more creative because your mind is not constantly occupied with judgments.

 

I want to ask for you to describe it for me, but I don’t know if I should I keep asking questions about this or find out for myself? 

Enlightenment happens when I drops. I is the illusion itself, therefore Enlightenment. 

[Phil]

13 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

 

Been wondering about doubt... In regard to enlightenment and also some other things that are wanted.

 

Basically, doubt feels off. And if that something feels off means that the interpreration is off, that means that the interpretation of enlightenment / the wanted thing must be off.

 

So what is doubt saying, really?

The question is about how the interpretations are off but the interpretations weren’t shared / expressed. So I’d start there.

 

Generally speaking what will be expressed will be what’s known and the doubt will be felt. What’s known will fundamentally be the limiting belief that there is something known. Doubt’s felt because there’s already no such thing as knowing. Knowing, believed to be true… doesn’t seem like belief, but seems… known. The end of the knowing is the end of the knower, which there already isn’t and never was. 

 

13 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

If enlightenment was "seen correctly" so to speak, doubt wouldn't be possible?

Enlightenment points to reality as it is, not someone seeing reality as it is. Doubt, as in doubt is real / a real thing, already is not possible. Interpretations can be aligned with the nature of what’s appearing as interpretations, but there is no correct or accurate interpretation of enlightenment, of what’s appearing. 

 

A rain drop would never have ‘the accurate interpretation of water’, as all there is to the rain drop already is water. To water, “rain drop” is just an appearing thought about water, water is appearing as. Any and every interpretation would be the obscuring of the truth; water is already water. There is not a rain drop seeking water, water is seeking water overlooking the seeking is the activity of thought.  

 

Imagine falling asleep, being a dream, overlooking dreaming, believing the dream is real and not you, and your identity is a person in the dream. That is the actual situation. Thoughts which in one way or another are like  ‘I’m not what’s appearing’ / ‘I’m a separate thing inside of a universe that was born and dies’ would be met by the guidance of doubt which is another way of saying the thought isn’t true.

 

But this is all purely speculation because again, the interpretations weren’t expressed. Maybe that’s the message with respect to doubt. Maybe there’s focus on what isn’t possible instead of focus on & expression of what is possible… and a ‘bumping into’ beliefs assumed to be a knower knowing knowns. 

 

Why would a rain drop meditate daily, eat aligned, inspect beliefs etc when it means the end of the charade that there’s a rain drop?

 

‘Separation never occurred’. ♥️🎯

 

The ‘situation’ is listen to the head (thoughts & beliefs) or listen to the heart (guidance for thoughts). The head will judge the body, the body will never judge the head. The body is right. Suffering is believing the head.  

 

13 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

 

That maybe when I experience doubt whether I will have what I want, it means I have totally misunderstood something very crucial?

Misunderstanding obscures, and it would be an assumption that there is understanding. Understanding is straight forward - under, standing. That understanding is happening such as in a mind, brain, etc, is ‘thingifying’ (objectification) understanding… and is inherently the false identification as a separate finite self (which has things, one of which is my understanding or what I understand). The direct implication of an understood is the indirect implication that one is the understander. That understanding is of Me, as in infinite self, is delusion / insanity / egomaniacal, denial that the perspective is from an illusory separate self. 

[Phil]

 

[Loop]

It didn’t.

 

Your birth right is what it is.

 

Freedom.

 

[Pluto]

Does it usually happen gradually or abruptly?

Both & None.

 

Is it truly just one realization that you can never forget?

Only the body-mind/illusion has experience of forgetfulness that appears to blurr the awareness of being with the play of the experience.

(forgetting you are the screen and adopting the reality of the movie and characters within the movie that are playing within the screen).

Awareness itself is always in perfect clarity. The screen never changes yet the movie 'appears' too, hence the illusion of forgetting.

 

Once it happens, is it possible for you to ever go back to your prior “way” in life? Or it’s a point of no return?

Both & None

[Joseph Maynor]

On 8/10/2023 at 7:59 AM, Rose said:

I should I keep asking questions about this or find out for myself? 

Should I keep asking questions or find things out for myself?  Do both.  These can coexist.  It doesn't have to be an either-or.  You can both learn the 10-Ox Herding Pictures and create your own 10-Ox Herding Pictures too.  You can be both integrous and original, both a student and a teacher.   It's very difficult to teach this kind of paradoxical mind because most people have a linear mind where they want to find one thing, reduce everything to that one thing, and put the other side of that into the shadow.  They can both coexist.  This takes a different mentality than most people have I find.  It's an opening up of the intellect.

Edited February 9 by Joseph Maynor