The Ten Stages of Genocide

[Mandy]

10 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

Agreed. Only I'm not a member of this forum. I'm pure Truth.

But if you felt that, stuff like "do unto others", "turn the other cheek" wouldn't be a thought that could even be disregarded. 

[Mandy]

@DMT Elf Let he who is without sin throw the first stone. 

[Mandy]

6 minutes ago, DMT Elf said:

Done

Cool, I'm cashing in this meteorite for $20,000, thanks. 

[Mandy]

@DMT Elf Have you ever thought or believed anything really dumb and hurtful? 

[Mandy]

@DMT Elf How did it come about that you realized the belief was erroneous? 

[Mandy]

@DMT Elf So if you wanted someone to efficiently wake up to something wouldn't love be the best way to go? Can you go the most efficient route without patience? It's like airport security/ boarding a plane, it seems like such a long waste of time, but air travel is still the most direct by far. 

[Mandy]

@DMT Elf

17 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

Don't just leave the forum. Go crawl into a dark hole where you never see the light of day again.

 

41 minutes ago, DMT Elf said:

I'd hope someone would beat the living shit out of me for it.

 

[Mandy]

@DMT Elf No

[Mandy]

@DMT Elf We moderate this forum and communicate based upon comments, not based on perception of the person that's behind them. 

[Mandy]

It's the perpetuation of what's been done before. Just like homophobia was for so long the same perpetuation of the same fear/violence/hatred/disgust/revenge cycle.  The reason that it's so triggering is that it's the same movement of thinking separation. NOTHING has evolved. NOTHING can claim moral superiority or higher intelligence and understanding. 

[Phil]

12 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

Agreed. Only I'm not a member of this forum. I'm pure Truth.

 

1 hour ago, DMT Elf said:

If I was an ignorant transphobe, I'd hope someone would beat the living shit out of me for it.

Self-outsmarting. 

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

1 hour ago, DMT Elf said:

Mutual respect (in that sense) isn't practical when one group wants the other eradicated.

This is like telling a slave to submit to his oppressors because not doing so would be thinking separation. It doesn't make any sense.

 

I think there is logical misfire here between the condition, the people with that condition, and the ideology that has sprung up around the topic.

 

As an example to give the conversation a bit of breathing room lets use another form of body dysphoria - anorexia. It is entirely reasonable to say that anorexia is not a good thing, to wish that no-one had to suffer from anorexia, without jumping to the conclusion that such thoughts equate to anorexia genocide. Anorexia is a condition that is generally perceived as something to be avoided and treated rather than affirmed, but the anorexics themselves strongly identify with their condition - it is THEM, and to get them to see otherwise takes years of therapy (you might call it conversion therapy). Of course people with anorexia should absolutely be treated with respect and compassion, and while I see no problem with wishing that anorexia did not exist, that does not mean I want the people affected by anorexia to literally die.  

 

Now if there was an ideology out there attempting to affirm people with anorexia, and creating legislature that prevented criticism of that ideology then I would find that very concerning.

 

No doubt there are extreme people out there who do wish harm on trans people, but its dishonest to paint that level of extremism as the face of any possible debate around the trans topic - and that is exactly what has happened in this thread.

 

 

[Jonas Long]

10 minutes ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

 

I think there is logical misfire here between the condition, the people with that condition, and the ideology that has sprung up around the topic.

 

As an example to give the conversation a bit of breathing room lets use another form of body dysphoria - anorexia. It is entirely reasonable to say that anorexia is not a good thing, to wish that no-one had to suffer from anorexia, without jumping to the conclusion that such thoughts equate to anorexia genocide. Anorexia is a condition that is generally perceived as something to be avoided and treated rather than affirmed, but the anorexics themselves strongly identify with their condition - it is THEM, and to get them to see otherwise takes years of therapy (you might call it conversion therapy). Of course people with anorexia should absolutely be treated with respect and compassion, and while I see no problem with wishing that anorexia did not exist, that does not mean I want the people affected by anorexia to literally die.  

 

Now if there was an ideology out there attempting to affirm people with anorexia, and creating legislature that prevented criticism of that ideology then I would find that very concerning.

 

No doubt there are extreme people out there who do wish harm on trans people, but its dishonest to paint that level of extremism as the face of any possible debate around the trans topic - and that is exactly what has happened in this thread.

 

 

I think there's there's logical misfire here in that anorexia, taken to its logical conclusion, results in dying 100% of the time.  Being trans, and transitioning does not. This is a bad comparison. 

[Jonas Long]

@Adeptus Psychonautica 

There is a difference between dysphoria and dysmorphia 

 

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

@Jonas Long granted its not a 1:1 comparison, between these conditions, nor was it intended to be. The purpose was to highlight that the leap from having concerns about the condition does not equate to wishing death upon those that have the condition.

[Jonas Long]

1 minute ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

@Jonas Long granted its not a 1:1 comparison, between these conditions, nor was it intended to be. The purpose was to highlight that the leap from having concerns about the condition does not equate to wishing death upon those that have the condition.

I don't find the comparison useful in the slightest, I find the two things incomparable actually.  

Trans people have always been a thing.  In some cultures they've been seen as shamans.  In some cultures they've been systematically destroyed.  

What are the "concerns" having to do with trans people that doesn't imply that they aren't "really a thing" or "shouldn't be a thing"?  

Is it the bathroom uptightness?  The pronoun uptightness?  What are the concerns? 

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

@Jonas Long you don’t need me to repeat the opposing concerns around this debate. They are all over the news/internet so go find them yourself.  You don’t even have to go too far into the right, the Contrapoints video posted earlier lists several concerns,  so maybe start there if you are genuinely looking to understand the debate.

 

Again though this is somewhat missing the point, which is the somewhat hysterical leap from criticism of an ideology to genocide.

[Jonas Long]

2 minutes ago, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

@Jonas Long you don’t need me to repeat the opposing concerns around this debate. They are all over the news/internet so go find them yourself.  You don’t even have to go too far into the right, the Contrapoints video posted earlier lists several concerns,  so maybe start there if you are genuinely looking to understand the debate.

 

Again though this is somewhat missing the point, which is the somewhat hysterical leap from criticism of an ideology to genocide.

The only concerns I've seen in this thread expressed by @Tarak were over pronouns and bathrooms, so I was waiting for him to say what his personal concerns are.  For one thing, transgenderism isn't an "ideology", also I didn't make the leap to genocide so I can't really answer for that part.  But since it is established that trans people have always been around and it follows that they aren't really going anywhere, I'm curious what the alternatives would be, if you feel that they shouldn't really be allowed to be or have rights. 

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

@Jonas Long I would agree thst transgenderism itself is not an ideology, but there is a ideological movement around this topic. Again lets not equate one with the other.

 

23 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

if you feel that they shouldn't really be allowed to be or have rights. 

I did not state that trans people should not have rights, nor have I even stated my position on this topic, simply that I find the conflation of criticism to genocide nonsensical.

[Mandy]

2 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

Mutual respect (in that sense) isn't practical when one group wants the other eradicated.

This is like telling a slave to submit to his oppressors because not doing so would be thinking separation. It doesn't make any sense.

 

This is timestamped to the part that most applies but the entire thing is so good.