The Ten Stages of Genocide

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

58 minutes ago, DMT Elf said:

Turn inward, man.

Elaborate please.

[Phil]

14 hours ago, Jonas Long said:

Try and find one case of a systemically oppressed minority successfully restoring their basic rights that were taken away without a fair to large amount of violence.  I'm not glorifying it or claiming it's absolutely necessary.  But as far as I can see it's yet to happen.  I hope it does, or can. 

This forum. 

[Jonas Long]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

This forum. 

Please unpack that for me, if you will.  I'm not sure i understand. 

[Jonas Long]

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Jonas Long said:

Please unpack that for me, if you will.  I'm not sure i understand. 

Hilarious. 🙏🏼 

[Jonas Long]

24 minutes ago, DMT Elf said:

The obvious implication of your initial post to me is that being transgender is a condition or a sickness which needs to be fixed or cured. That is the hysterical ideology, and that is why rational good faith conversation is not possible here. 

Truly.  He literaly compared transgenderism to a pathology.  

[Jonas Long]

54 minutes ago, Phil said:

Hilarious. 🙏🏼 

Hilarious says the white cis male who likened his own forum to a civil rights movement of some kind.  Your statement made no sense on the face of it, so I was reasonably asking you to flesh out that idea.  How is this forum an oppressed minority restoring their basic human rights nonviolently?

@Mandy requested less harshness from me which is why I was so measured in my request for an explanation to your statement.  To respond with "hilarious" really tests my willingness to sand down the rough edges of my posts here. 

 

Ps, I noticed after my criticism of how you handle mental illness here you actually made adjustments in that regard, subsequent to your prickly response to me.  Maybe my criticism actually is valuable to you to some degree? 

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Jonas Long

[Phil]

35 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Hilarious says the white cis male who likened his own forum to a civil rights movement of some kind.  Your statement made no sense on the face of it, so I was reasonably asking you to flesh out that idea.  How is this forum an oppressed minority restoring their basic human rights nonviolently?

@Mandy requested less harshness from me which is why I was so measured in my request for an explanation to your statement.  To respond with "hilarious" really tests my willingness to sand down the rough edges of my posts here. 

Maybe it “tests” a belief in understanding…?

[Jonas Long]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

Maybe it “tests” a belief in understanding…?

Oh.  Well that clarifies everything.

[Phil]

43 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Truly.  He literaly compared transgenderism to a pathology.  

That wasn’t said. 

2 minutes ago, DMT Elf said:

It’s beyond me how someone can trip so much and still be so closed minded. It’s quite surreal. I guess it really is true that psychedelics affect everyone differently.

Psychedelics reveal nothing. 

[Jonas Long]

On 5/10/2023 at 11:35 AM, Adeptus Psychonautica said:

 

I think there is logical misfire here between the condition, the people with that condition, and the ideology that has sprung up around the topic.

 

As an example to give the conversation a bit of breathing room lets use another form of body dysphoria - anorexia. 

 

 

Transgenderism is not a form of dysmorphia, anorexia is.   He compared them by mistakenly saying both are forms of dysphoria, which is not a mental illness.  Dysmorphia, which anorexia falls under, is. 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Jonas Long

[Phil]

@DMT Elf

Not sure what ta tell ya. Take more… I guess..?

 

[Mandy]

2 hours ago, Jonas Long said:

Hilarious says the white cis male who likened his own forum to a civil rights movement of some kind.  Your statement made no sense on the face of it, so I was reasonably asking you to flesh out that idea.  How is this forum an oppressed minority restoring their basic human rights nonviolently?

It's like you're dismissing and belittling someone's experiences because you're accusing them of dismissing and belittling other people's experiences. What this forum is about is that there aren't other people, just stay close to home, and you won't get in trouble, and you also can see the whole world with an open heart. Or Jesus said that a lot better, "Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you", and something else about logs, eyes, and specks of dirt. 

 

2 hours ago, Jonas Long said:

Ps, I noticed after my criticism of how you handle mental illness here you actually made adjustments in that regard, subsequent to your prickly response to me.  Maybe my criticism actually is valuable to you to some degree? 

It is valuable, but you could just make the suggestions like a member of the team instead of being super lazy and just complaining about stuff. It just takes a little more effort. PAPER PLATES ON THE FLOOR JONAS. PAPER PLATES WITH PIZZA GREASE all over the floor. 

 

We don't use fine china (oh shit, that's not racist now, is it?)here Jonas, we use Correlle ware in this house. Cause kids. It ain't that fancy, but it isn't disposable either. You can throw shit around, and usually it doesn't break, but very occasionally, YES it does. 

 

SCRAPE YOUR LEFTOVER FOOD IN THE TRASH, RINSE YOUR PLATE OFF, AND PUT IT IN THE DISHWASHER. 

 

 

 

 

Thank you. 

[Jonas Long]

1 hour ago, Mandy said:

It's like you're dismissing and belittling someone's experiences because you're accusing them of dismissing and belittling other people's experiences. 

It's not like I'm doing that, it's exactly what I'm doing.  Showing what it's like to be reduced to a demographic and making generalizations about people that way.  That's the point.  

I will try to be nicer going forward I promise, but I didn't respond well to a reasonable question being met with a one word sarcastic write off. 

There are no separate selves so there is no separation between you and a so called trans person, you are them, and you know you want basic human rights on the basis of nothing more than being human, you don't want to have to "debate" people and make a case for why you should be allowed to exist as you are and have rights. 

I will try to be nicer going forward.  

[Mandy]

59 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

It's not like I'm doing that, it's exactly what I'm doing. 

 

59 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

to a reasonable question

Doesn't add up. 

 

 

[Jonas Long]

27 minutes ago, Mandy said:

 

Doesn't add up. 

 

 

afterword.  After I got sassed I sassed back.  This time. I asked nicely before I got the "hilarious". Anyway, sorry again.  

Edited May 11, 2023 by Jonas Long

[Mandy]

@Jonas Long It's not just that case, I see it through the whole thread as a pattern. Focus isn't on making life fun and inclusive for everyone, on allowing and encouraging everyone to be the creators that they inherently are, focus is on what a piece of shit people are for taking the discord of their traumas out on others, then taking that discord out on others. 

 

It's a chain of pain. 

 

Forward my chain letter or else. 

 

Always say the perfect PR thing, or else you're bad. 

 

Don't have the discussion that would open your mind, you'll say something that's not perfect. 

 

Keep your mouth shut.

 

Don't question.

 

Don't offend. 

 

Don't say anything stupid. 

 

Don't be who you are.

 

Don't express.

 

Hold it in.

 

Do you see the IRONY of the subject of someone BEING WHO THEY ARE? 

 

Can we ever not be who WE ARE? 

 

Do you see how here, how immediate, acceptance is?

 

How it's ALL SELF ACCEPTANCE? 

 

And how then, and ONLY THEN can we love ourselves to change, but in doing nothing because that LOVE IS THE VERY CHANGE THAT WAS SOUGHT? 

 

[Jonas Long]

13 minutes ago, Mandy said:

@Jonas Long It's not just that case, I see it through the whole thread as a pattern. Focus isn't on making life fun and inclusive for everyone, on allowing and encouraging everyone to be the creators that they inherently are, focus is on what a piece of shit people are for taking the discord of their traumas out on others, then taking that discord out on others. 

 

It's a chain of pain. 

 

Forward my chain letter or else. 

 

Always say the perfect PR thing, or else you're bad. 

 

Don't have the discussion that would open your mind, you'll say something that's not perfect. 

 

Keep your mouth shut.

 

Don't question.

 

Don't offend. 

 

Don't say anything stupid. 

 

Don't be who you are.

 

Don't express.

 

Hold it in.

 

Do you see the IRONY of the subject of someone BEING WHO THEY ARE? 

 

Can we ever not be who WE ARE? 

 

Do you see how here, how immediate, acceptance is?

 

How it's ALL SELF ACCEPTANCE? 

 

And how then, and ONLY THEN can we love ourselves to change, but in doing nothing because that LOVE IS THE VERY CHANGE THAT WAS SOUGHT? 

 

It can be challenging, for me anyway, to remain "civil" during certain conversations.  It's like, if tomorrow my right to take depression medication or your right to have the family you want, were suddenly called in to question and subject to debate instead of just being accepted because they fall within the arbitrary realm of current "norms", it would be a challenge to remain even handed in our dealings with it.  

That said yes, I understand.  You asked me if I could be less harsh and I said I'd be more aware of it, I was tested immediately and failed.  Again, going forward I'll try to be more aware of my harshness. 

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

13 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

The obvious implication of your initial post to me is that being transgender is a condition or a sickness which needs to be fixed or cured. That is the hysterical ideology, and that is why rational good faith conversation is not possible here. 

There is a condition to be fixed/cured (using your terminology here). The condition is Gender Dysphoria as defined in the DSM-5 (current established scientific consensus), and the fix/cure YOU are advocating for is transition via various means (social, chemical, surgical).

 

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria#section_0

 

So clearly there is a condition, and there is a “cure” even by your own standards (transition). The debate playing out within society is if the cure is correct, in what cases it should be applied, and the ethics of that application particularly in the case of minors, and there is a significant stack of cases that show this debate is worth having.

 

Now clearly you aren’t capable of engaging with that debate, or even understanding the nature of it. Maybe instead of looking inward into your own biases, look outward and try and bring in some alternate perspectives.

 

But you are correct that rational good faith conversation is not possible, at least with you as demonstrated by your comments here.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Adeptus Psychonautica

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

10 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

It’s beyond me how someone can trip so much and still be so closed minded. It’s quite surreal. I guess it really is true that psychedelics affect everyone differently.

If your assumption is that psychedelics will create a uniform set of values and beliefs in the people who take them, then you are simply confused. They don’t, and that you find this revelation surreal shows a severe lack of understanding about these substances.

 

Yes, it is indeed true that psychedelics, and in fact most substances, affect everyone differently. I would suggest you take some time to educate yourself on the nature of these substances to prevent further surreal revelations.