spiritual dreams

@Phil Yeah in case you haven't noticed, I've thought myself into a sticky situation and thinking more about it makes it even more sticky.

ok cool. I appreciate the answers although right now is probably not a good time for me to contemplate them. 😅

@Phil so you're saying there is a self?

Yeah this always bothered me about the 'here and now' type advice, sometimes I feel like shit but the thought that I will feel better in the future helps sooo much and gives me hope. And whaddya know I do feel better after a while.

The idea of a unicorn could be useful though. @Phil I understand what you are trying to say but it seems my mind is in a state where it just constructs more and more stories about everything, even if its helpful like observing direct experience. Honestly the best I've felt recently is when I'm not thinking about this spirituality/consciousness shit and just doing normal stuff. How do I just be normal again?

Ok this made me laugh. Reminds me of my actualized.org days.

@Blessed2 ok maybe we have a different definition of ego

@Phil Ok these are a lot of questions, I don't know if i can answer them all. The memories of both at least. Of course it's ok. Empowerment is a good thing right? A strong healthy ego would have thoughts like 'I'm strong' right? Well it seems that killing the ego does seem wrong but also that what you are saying seems to point to no self. I'm not sure really. It honesly feels pretty discordant but there's always the thought that this person knows more than me and has a better understanding of the mind and reality. I mean, it's there in pretty much one of the most common terms in spirituality. I mean a lot of the buddhist teachers talk about no self, emptiness and nothingness a lot. A lot of nondual teachers also talk about the self being an illusion. I guess I'm misinterpreting them based on my conditioning? So it's ok to feel like a self?

@Joseph Maynor 13 Angels Standing Guard 'Round the Side of Your Bed absolutely slaps

So is self esteem, ambition, identity, healthy boundaries, willpower and values all like cancer then?

the kids. So does that mean that there is a self that is not the ego?

Just a feeling of being myself vs a feeling of not being a self. a strong core sense of 'self' that is empowered and in control, with healthy boundaries, and ambitions. This is a feeling in direct experience and does not feel particularly discordant. Transcending ego I'm not sure any more. I guess it really depends on how you define ego. A feeling of being someone. pretty not great. Fear and depression. The ego identifying with no ego. which feels worse than just regular ego. identification with thoughts. Kinda Because what feeling is seemingly in contradiction to what these spriritual teachers are saying. Most nondual teachers really. obviously not great. But other self referantial thoughts do feel great. For example 'i had a really great time with my friends last night' or 'I am worthy of respect'

@Mandy In that case a healthy sense of self and boundaries is just normal healthy functioning right?

@Mandy ok but then how exactly do I function then?

@Mandy ok so there is no ego. Does that mean that self esteem, values, personal boundaries, willpower, ambition, goals, identity, personality etc. are all pointless?

How so?

How do you balance the two? I've noticed a conflict between spiritual teachings. Some which say that building a strong and healthy ego is important and others that say that ego should be transcended. In my experience, losing my sense of identity actually feels really discordant. I don't have strong convictions, beliefs or morals or sense of purpose. My relationships become meaningless and I have weak personal boundaries. In fact it seems like not having a strong and healthy ego creates an even worse ego that identifies with having no ego. Like I am even deeper into the delusion. Having no sense of self just feels like being a zombie. How do I balance this? It feels much less discordant to actually feel like I'm me rather than feeling like nothing or that the me is an illusion which must me transcended. I would much rather be a healthy person with strong willpower, relationships, personality and boundaries than some zombie. In fact it seems closer to truth. But how do I make sense of this?

it sucks

@Mandy Literally any text involving spirituality of any kind. But the worst one was UG krishamurthi's stuff

yeah reading any spiritual text seems to give me existential dread at the moment.

@Mandy Thanks, I might read it when I get a bit better.

Are you experiencing it now? The spiritual path leads right here.

ecstatic dance

The idea that there is a 'self' which has these experiences is the illusion. The infinite self is also a thought that is identified with.

@Mandy Actually it was kind of a relief. But I was mostly like 'Holy fuck I can't believe I was this much of an idiot' But yeah the crazy thoughts were just believed and identified with.