Phil

There are other more productive facets of this forum y’all. 🙂 Productive as in, contributes to bringing an end to suffering and simultaneously consciously creating the change you actually desire in your life. This is one example…

Unfortunately, yes that is also the case, and this is me trying to ‘reel it in’ a bit. What you said was people are hating Leo. No one said that. Hate is an emotion. It isn’t ‘in the world’, it’s projection, or nonexistent. Obviously as God you are already aware of this. Maybe as God, you are also inclined to the ‘reeling it in’ orientation. Seems as if you would be, or are perhaps deluded.

That is great to hear! For sure. Perfectly understandable and also within the guidelines. The relevance, is suffering, vs liberation of suffering. Isn’t it so? There’s some suffering in the experience of the discord of hypocrisy, I agree. I’ve stubbed that toe too. There was a sting, yes, but there was & is, no suffering. 🙂 I love you too, and I appreciate the kind words, I don’t think you’re being disrespectful to me at all, I’m nothing. I suggest the upmost respect for your own well being & alignment. The goodness ain’t comin from me sneaky pants. Maybe Leo’s changed, maybe he hasn’t, maybe he will, maybe he won’t, maybe he should or needs to, maybe he shouldn’t and doesn’t need to. Vs. Cessation. Truth. The end of suffering.

I do not disagree. Guilty af. Worst offender of all here. Absolute unredeemable piece of shit over here. How’s that actually relevant?

@Iesu I implore you and anyone else with the same sentiment to either let it go, for good… or… go actually spend some time with him… and then if you still want, think about him, judge him, etc, etc. But at least directly experience so to speak, what y’all are even talking about. I hope the distinction is seen here, in this thread, going forward, between discussing separate selves… vs… teachings, misinformation, manipulation, misguidance, conjecture, dogma, and the like.

@Iesu Thank you sir.

This is in stark contrast with the guidelines. Is there any respect for the guidelines? Is that other than self respect?

Thank you, I do appreciate the clarification & the kindness, and that sentiment is mutual. And really, it’s totally understandable…. But, honestly, I’m not convinced that sentiment is genuine, yet at least. That aspect is not really my business though, so I digress. I’m not asking for a reply to this comment, or for you to agree, but I will ask that there is at least some open minded consideration in regard to what you said (copied above). Is it possible, that there are not states which you are in, and this is a learned rhetoric of the separate self, which is isolating & conjecture, which contributes to a never ending seeking, which actually supports aversion, which one purporting to be a teacher of nonduality is knowing or otherwise, actually encouraging - by convincing listeners, that there are, states of consciousness, which a ‘separate self’, is in, only to later sell the “solution”? Please, sincerely, imagine… you post here it’s all love, there are no separate selves… same thing I’m saying so to speak - same thing every nonduality teacher since The Buddha has shared / said - and I reply with ‘we have a problem’…. and ‘you need to leave’. Wouldn’t you inspect that, question the intention behind that? Then if you will, if interested, if willing, imagine I make a thread in response to you sharing the truth of infinite unconditional love - by talking about that you are ‘the separate self’. Would this not at the very least, be questioned? I am also asking you to consider, but I am not per se requesting or asking you to do this… Is it possible, that what is currently being considered people judging, is actually your judgement of people, and that these people are a step ahead of you so to speak, in dispelling, working through, inspecting & questioning, the delusional “teachings” of this purporting? Is it possible, and this is certainly not meant in any ‘personal way’ - is it possible that ‘working property is assigned to describe a state of being not necessarily of utility’, is no more than confusion, which arises as justification and or rationalization of, the belief that you are in states of consciousness? Essentially, is it possible that is the ‘reach’ if you will, of the dogma or misinformation, which those said to be judging, are actually genuinely working through / letting go? Is it possible, bypassing ‘doing the work’, bypassing the transcendence and libration from suffering - literally, just full on - bypassing and suppressing suffering, to the point of dis-ease and health issues… is a genius “teaching”, economically speaking?

@God Likewise sir, you have so so much to learn, as in yet to see. No one on this thread said they hate Leo. What is the source of that hate?

Great ‘work’! Fear’s not a thing. It’s not something you have. Fear is an emotion, and emotion is guidance in regard to what you’re thinkin. What have you seen which you want to do, have, be or experience? What are you jealous of? Notice the tendency not to give a direct answer to this, and relax, and see about an answer. What is the ‘myself’ which you could cheat? There two of you? “It’s not worth living” is an attitude. When let go, it changes for you. The fear is felt in regard to this discordant thinking. The fear has nothing to do with what you are believing it does. This is the experience of thought attachment.

That insecurity is certain is a belief. Insecurity is an emotion, which is guidance in regard to, what you’re thinkin. Insecurity is not certain, it comes and goes. 😅 Thank God amIright?! If you prefer the going, the releasing, the relinquishing of the of insecurity… What have you seen, which you want to do, be, have, experience? What are you jealous of? Who or what exactly do you believe you are fighting? Excellent inspection work. What are you jealous of? Wouldn’t you first have to find that which you are going to fight? Intention is no reason to disregard emotional guidance. Perhaps that’s what ‘you’re fighting’?

How is that relevant? Why?

@Ges “The masculine actually works (Leo), and the feminine sits around, gossips, and judges (Nahm's forum in a nutshell).” You are welcome here. But, your intentions and words seem disingenuous. Why exactly are you here, utilizing this forum, as opposed to “what works”? Are you not the source of that judgement?

This thread is you still ‘touching the hot stove’. Focusing on what is discordant to you. Trying to solve something to feel better, when letting it go, not focusing on it, is what results in feeling better. This is because the “better feeling” is you. Hard to realize that while attention is on what is discordant to you. What’s true for you, in the ‘where you’re at on your path’ sense, matters. What anyone else thinks or believes, doesn’t. You’re kinda sorta pretending, playing the game of “it does matter”. It doesn’t. It’s not your business. Has nothing to do with you, or the suffering. There is no ‘liberation vs caring about people or the world’. What feels good feels good because it’s all love.

No.

@Forza21 What’s ‘it’ / ‘it all’?

By paradigm, I’m referring somewhat specifically to this meaning: A set of assumptions, concepts, values, and practices that constitutes a way of viewing reality for the community that shares them, especially in an intellectual discipline. There is what’s referred to as ‘the materialist’s paradigm’. This is a set of seemingly shared assumptions & concepts like, ‘people have consciousness’ and or ‘people have amounts of consciousness’. Note, these are conceptual assumptions. In short, beliefs which seem true, because apparently everyone else believes the same paradigm. The ‘materialist paradigm’ could be viewed as one half of a paradox; that there are individual people which have consciousness, are conscious, or have amounts of consciousness. This ‘half’ of the paradox would be like believing there are individual lego people, some of which have more legos and some of which have less legos. This would not seem like a belief, because all of the lego people also believe there are lego people. Most would believe that is sane, and to question that belief is insane, or could lead to insanity. The ‘other half’ of this paradox could be viewed as the transcendence, or ‘seeing through the assumptions and concepts’ of, the ‘first half’ of the paradox - ‘the materialist’s paradigm’. In this view, there is only legos, and no people… and thus, there is no actuality or truth, that “people” have legos, at all. It is the ego which is appearing as, “people”. When the ‘second half’ of this paradox is seen clearly, it is also inherently seen that there never was a ‘first half’ of the paradox, because it is seen this was a concept, a belief, which was based on assumption, Thus, in truth there is no paradox at all, and never was. In hindsight of seeing the paradox from the transcendent viewpoint, there was just a misunderstanding. Nothing actually changes, sans the absence of the misunderstanding. The misunderstanding was of only seeing half of the paradox, and believing it, vs inspecting the assumptions, concepts, values, practices and socially shared beliefs. When the paradox (assumptions, etc) are inspected, it is found to be only belief, and not actually fundamentally true. When this paradox is transcended, as the very transcendence of the paradox is seeing, understanding, that there are no people… there is no one who transcended anything at all. The Buddha referred to this misunderstanding as “ignorance”, which I take to be the ignoring of feeling, in favor of continuing to believe the assumptions, concepts etc, because in a way it’s just easier to ‘fall in line with the hurd’. However, The Buddha also explained that this ‘misunderstanding’, and non-inspection to see through this paradigm, is what suffering is. Thus, the end of suffering is the end of the ignorance and is the end of misunderstanding. As the materialist’s paradigm is riddled with assumptions and beliefs, this keeps the mind in a ‘busy’ mode, and the body mind in discord, unrest, suffering. This busyness of the mind obscures clarity & focus, just like clouds seem to obscure the clear sky. It seems as if there is not the presence of a clear sky, due to the clouds. Though of course, the actuality is that the clear sky is always present. It is the same for clarity & focus, and the busy mind of thought activity (clouds). I am unsure what is meant by “die less often”. When beliefs are inspected, they disappear. They ‘pop’ like bubbles. This feels good, because the beliefs (bubbles) are quite literally made of the eternal perfection or goodness, that you actually are. It is like the clear sky being obscured by clouds, and then the clouds blowing away one by one, revealing more and more beauty, clarity, focus and goodness. Indeed, ‘they’ do experience having a stronger sense of self, and are less prone to manipulation or gas lighting, and are much more effective in life. But this is not because ‘they’ have more of anything - that is the misunderstanding that is ‘the materialist’s paradigm’. ‘They’ actually have less of something, and that something is the activity of thought, that ‘busy mind’, discord, and suffering. This aspect is is arguably only seen for what it really is, or rather isn’t, when the entire paradox is transcended. (Again, not by anyone). Then, the very nature of unobscured clarity & focus, naturally & inherently is itself the revelation that there isn’t, and never was, “understanding”. It only paradoxically seemed like there was, because there was the apparent experience of, misunderstanding, or, ‘ignorance’. When what is said here registers, lands, or is grasped to some degree, to any degree - the relevance is usually - that there is a way, a path, which indeed does ‘result’ in, the end of suffering. This is usually the beginning of the undergoing of inspection of beliefs and assumptions. This is usually in conjunction with adopting the practice of daily meditation because it quiets the ‘busyness’ of the mind, making inspection all the easier, and allowing more clarity & focus into experience. A Path Overview, The Ten Ox Herding Pictures. Beginning Meditation.

The body and laws, this one and that one, are already the ocean. As / for the ocean, there isn’t a body, laws, or a this one and that one. Same for the conceptualization of the ocean (life story). It (the concept) is presently / already, the ocean (of consciousness). The relevance might be that there aren’t really waves. The ocean appears as such, including the conceptualization of itself, ‘waves’.

If you’ve not yet heard of & explored her teachings, here is a short introduction to ‘The Work’ of Byron Katie, from TheJoyWithin.org. If you have ‘done the work’, please share how it went, what you’ve found, the impact it made in your life & relationships, and feel free to offer any insights that come to mind. Thanks! Byron Katie guides people on how to get in touch with their true nature by uncovering the layers of their psyche. She causes people who do “The Work” to fall in love with reality by getting honest with themselves. One of the most potent ways she teaches for us to view what is truly going on within our judgments and suffering is by doing turnarounds. What Is The Work? The work is a four-step question process Katie teaches more deeply within her books. She typically guides people to perform thought inquiry through writing as it’s easier to investigate thoughts on paper. She says this is because “it is the mind’s job to be right” and when investigating thoughts within the head it can justify itself immediately. Sometimes even without us noticing. On her judge your neighbor worksheet, you write down your judgment and then put it to work. The Work is four questions that will reveal the underlying truth within your being. To reap the most benefit out of the work. It is important to be completely authentic with yourself and take time in order for your inner wisdom to come through. The Practice: “Every step of The Work is meditation. To begin, drop into stillness and observe what arises in the mind's eye. Now, allow The Work to work you.” - Byron Katie Notice: Who or what upsets, angers, or saddens you? Why? Recall a specific situation. Write: Capture your stressful thoughts on a Worksheet using short, simple sentences. Question: Isolate and question one thought - allow authentic answers to arise. Turn It Around: Find opposites of the thought. Are these opposite thoughts as true or truer than the original thought? The Four Question of The Work: Is it true? Can I absolutely know this is true? How do you react, what happens, when you believe that thought? Who would you be without that thought? After applying the work it’s time to work with turnarounds in order to get even more into the roots of what’s going on inside you. What Are Turnarounds? Turnarounds are potent perspective shifts that can bring you right into the heart of the thoughts or judgments that cause suffering. They are the inquiry of the truth behind the exact opposite of a thought. This is because disappointments are always created from you, not the other person. To understand this more you need to understand that your external environment is a reflection of you. Here Is An Example of a Turnaround: Judgement: "Paul shouldn't have lied to me" Turnarounds: Paul should have lied to me. I lied to Paul. I lied to me. Through these turnarounds, the next step is to investigate if the turnarounds are more true than the original judgment. You can turn the statements around to the opposite, to yourself, and to the other yet not all judgments will have three turnarounds. It is okay to leave those that don’t make sense. You challenge is to find 3 reasons why it is more true for each turnaround you can form. The turnarounds guide us back to the place our reality is created, in us! It is easy to think that a judgment you perceive within another person is strictly about them. Although… similar to the quote “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder” - your judgments are within you. (Judge Your Neighbor Worksheet) Additional Information & Tools: TheWork.com. Check Out ‘The Work’ App ($.99)

Yes for sure. Yes that too. Successfully and unsuccessfully, and for that matter right and or wrong, don’t apply to expression, but are expressions. Typically anger is resistance, undesirable, unwanted. If given the choice, most people most often would choose not to experience anger. When one ends up experiencing the emotion of anger, it’s often created unconsciously. Acknowledging that one is experiencing an emotion, anger, is often enough. There’s usually a little relief in the shift from not understanding what one is feeling to understanding. From no acknowledgement yet, to acknowledging the emotion. Then “when I feel this anger, do I sometimes then feel discouragement?”. Most often, yes. Anger isn’t exactly in the flow, and when anger is in our lives we often cause some waves we don’t actually desire or intend to. It feels like discouragement each time this happens. Does it feel better acknowledging discouragement is felt, than to be experiencing anger? Then express blame for this anger & discouragement, and so on.

What’s it? Who’s terrified? 🤍 I remember once when I was a kid, I stole a G.I. Joe from a store. 😬 Other than a case of beer, that was the only thing I ever stole. I didn’t feel great about it, but I didn’t feel bad about it either. But I was not the clever thief I thought I was. I totally got busted. General manager was watching the whole time on the security camera. Got busted & he called my folks. Dad came. 😬😬 And… in the office, with dad & the GM, and my thievery literally recorded on tape - I lied and said I didn’t steal it. That is still to this day the worst most terrifying feeling ever. 😬😬😬 Dad & I laugh about this now if & when it comes up. But when I told my kids this story… I’ll admit… I put just an itsy bitsy fear-of-God vibe in it. It made my story bigger and cooler. Or rather, at the time that’s what I thought.

@Faith 🙏🏻 @Forza21 When 911 happened, there was a video of a speech by George W. Bush where he talked about retaliation. But, he didn’t use that word. He used the word, “crusade”. I remember thinking, wow, what an ego maniacal manipulative asshole. But then when I met him, I felt compassion for his suffering of his delusion. One hell of a lucrative speech giver though, I’ll give Dubs that! That compassion just didn’t arise for a video. Had I met Dubs prior to that speech, the thoughts ‘egomaniacal asshole’ wouldn’t have even arose. Just the compassion for his delusion, and sincerely wishing him clarity, well being and health. Speaking of Bibles, here’s an interesting true story chalked full of very deep suffering, bravery, courage, Truth and insights therein…https://eastbayexpress.com/the-right-to-confront-your-accuser-1/

These are concepts about a “myself”. Which emotion was mentioned in your op? Expression of emotion, instead of self conceptualization, will ‘wash you of yourself’, free you, liberate you. Riding a bike is impossible. At least, that’s what all my kids said before they practiced. Now they say it’s just like riding a bike. If frustration arises when attempting to express emotions above contentment… notice contentment wasn’t actually felt… and what is felt, is frustration. Express the frustration, then the next higher emotion on the scale. Finishing the scale is a suggestion. When interpreting ‘finish’ as ‘forcing’ or ‘pushing’… again look at the scale and spot which emotion is felt there. Or, go for a walk, etc. Allow the mind to clear.

Sounds more like we’re saying the same thing. Apparent two, but, not two. (Are apparent multiple views, multiple views.) Maybe not. I don’t know. 😂

Does the ocean recycle waves?